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Old 10-18-2009, 12:48 AM   #126
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I guess I’ve completed Stage 1 of the engine install. Four years is too long.

The engine was tuned to the limits of the stock fuel system. Other than an additional relay at the rear near the battery (so that the pumps are fed directly from the battery) my fuel system is stock from the in-tank pump up to the under-hood filter.

I have a list of things to do, but the fuel system upgrade is at the top, before tuning can resume. The chassis pump will either be the Aeromotive A1000 or the Bosch 044. I suspect I will delete the in-tank pump. (The Aeromotive people said their pump would work fine without one, even with a tank that draws from the top).

For performance purposes the car is essentially undriveable now. But adequate replacement tires are much more complicated than the fuel system upgrade (as Cappy and Bne can attest) and will wait until after the tuning is done.

Here is an Excel chart with the best torque run and best HP run merged, boost scale on right. Fuel pressure began to drop as the RPMs rose towards 6000 so the tuning stopped there. The engine does not have very much timing in it now for the same reason. Injectors are at about 78% duty cycle so they are not the limitation.

Chart is posted for info/update purposes only for people who enjoy chart-gazing, but I suspect it will look different when all is said and done.

[/IMG]

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Max WHP - 457
Max WTQ - 489
I wouldn't go past 80% really
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:49 AM   #127
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i would easily go past 80, i wouldnt go past the 90's though.
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:42 AM   #128
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Wow what a car that is amazing I am glad to hear that their are people just as nutty as me doing up volvos. seriously whaT A FANTASTIC RIDE!!!
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:05 AM   #129
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I would run the injectors out to around 95%, I assume these are not run of the mill junkyard injectors of questionable history.

You might also play with the fuel pressure a bit.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:25 AM   #130
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Nice to hear things are progressing Paul!
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:38 PM   #131
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It's funny you guys are discussing fuel injectors. He said the car was losing fuel pressure...
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:51 PM   #132
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Why did you pay other people to do all this work on/for your car?

Please don't misunderstand me or take this the wrong way. I'm genuinely curious and depending on your answer I would like to follow-up with other questions.
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Old 10-18-2009, 04:40 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
Why did you pay other people to do all this work on/for your car?

Please don't misunderstand me or take this the wrong way. I'm genuinely curious and depending on your answer I would like to follow-up with other questions.
Hi Karl, can you be more specific? I'm not sure which work you mean. I paid for dyno tuning because I don't have a dyno or any tuning experience, and I paid for BNE to design and fab the plenum since I don't know how to weld or have access to precision metal cutting equipment. Was it these things or something else?
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Old 10-18-2009, 04:43 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
Why did you pay other people to do all this work on/for your car?

Please don't misunderstand me or take this the wrong way. I'm genuinely curious and depending on your answer I would like to follow-up with other questions.
He's probably a family man so he pays for whatever he doesn't have time to do himself.
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Old 10-18-2009, 04:49 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by pwschuh View Post
Hi Karl, can you be more specific? I'm not sure which work you mean. I paid for dyno tuning because I don't have a dyno or any tuning experience, and I paid for BNE to design and fab the plenum since I don't know how to weld or have access to precision metal cutting equipment. Was it these things or something else?
He's just being a Karl.
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Old 10-18-2009, 05:42 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
Why did you pay other people to do all this work on/for your car?

Please don't misunderstand me or take this the wrong way. I'm genuinely curious and depending on your answer I would like to follow-up with other questions.
Yea, seriously!!! you should of totally forged your own pistons and stamped your body panels. way to cop out
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Old 10-18-2009, 05:50 PM   #137
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Yea, seriously!!! you should of totally forged your own pistons and stamped your body panels. way to cop out
yeah! and why didn't you make your own steel using a Bessemer or LD-converter Karl? Using pre-made metal is just like bolting on brown tops and a 15g. No creativity involved.
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:40 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by pwschuh View Post
Hi Karl, can you be more specific? I'm not sure which work you mean. I paid for dyno tuning because I don't have a dyno or any tuning experience, and I paid for BNE to design and fab the plenum since I don't know how to weld or have access to precision metal cutting equipment. Was it these things or something else?
Well, I'm not completely clued in the progression/history of your project, but the impression I've gotten is that you've been a bit of a slave to other people's schedules in waiting for stuff to get done.

I think my main question here is in relation to your 'stage 1 engine install' taking four years. How much of that time was spent waiting for other people? If you knew then what you know now, would you be satisfied with such a long time span? Would that perhaps have motivated you differently in choosing to perhaps learn the necessary skills and doing it yourself rather than farming something out?
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:06 PM   #139
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I like how the douchery has flipped from karl=douche to everyone else at karl=douche.
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:53 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
Well, I'm not completely clued in the progression/history of your project, but the impression I've gotten is that you've been a bit of a slave to other people's schedules in waiting for stuff to get done.

I think my main question here is in relation to your 'stage 1 engine install' taking four years. How much of that time was spent waiting for other people? If you knew then what you know now, would you be satisfied with such a long time span? Would that perhaps have motivated you differently in choosing to perhaps learn the necessary skills and doing it yourself rather than farming something out?
That's a reasonable question. I would say that yes, a big part of the four years was spent waiting other people. Everything about this installation is custom. The only place that the engine has an interface with the rest of the car that follows the factory form is one of the engine mounts. Every other linkage, bracket, hose, pipe, mount, and wire is custom. I designed all of these interfaces and fabricated them, farming out only the welding, which I don't do.

I ordered the long-block, header, and intake (minus air box) from UNITEK. The engine was great (so far), except for the cam-carrier being poorly sealed to the head with RTV. The header was not properly designed to fit in a 240, requiring modifications to both the header and firewall. (The struggle with the airbox and hood has already been discussed elsewhere.)

Before this install, the most complex thing I had ever done was a transmission swap. Everything I did was trial and error, mock-up and test fit, etc. Everything I did was the first time I had ever done it and I had a LOT of do-overs. When you are asking other people for work that is one-off, that they've never done before, and you're not willing to pay for their full-time focus, your work gets attention whenever they have spare time from the stuff that really pays their bills.

On the stuff I designed and made myself, I got stumped a lot. I had to take breaks and do research, order parts and fittings, wait for them to come, realize they wouldn't work, and then do more rethinking. I had, on average, less than 10 hours a week to dedicate to this project, including weekends. There were many weeks that I never touched the car.

Just this last tuning session took 3 months. My dyno operator is exceptionally well qualified but had never seen an Omex EMS before. The details are not like MOTEC and the other systems he designs and installs. He spent a lot of time on my car that he did not charge me for. As a result, I was not his first priority.

Would I do it differently if I had to do it over? I don't think so. The other priorities in my life are much more important than this project. Learning to weld would have been the only other skill I could have learned that would have helped, but the time I would have spent learning to do the quality of welding I paid to have done would likely have used up the time it saved. (But I still wish I knew how to weld.)

Were I to start this project today, I would obviously chose to work with Knox or RSI or JVAB, etc. to have the engine built, but when I ordered it 6 years ago no one in the US was building full-house turbo redblocks to spec.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:22 PM   #141
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I like how the douchery has flipped from karl=douche to everyone else at karl=douche.
whatever you just said...i agree
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:05 AM   #142
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Some pretty sweet torque for pump gas, man.

Do you have any particular power or 1/4 mile goals in mind?

Do you have a way of measuring exhaust backpressure? Looks like maybe boost/torque might be falling off - as it is there's no point in even tuning at higher rpms IMO, torque and HP are falling off pretty hard... as it is you wouldn't pick up any power spinning to to 7k that's for sure. Maybe you're dropping boost intentionally due to fuel limits though...

I'm interested to see where this goes.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:18 AM   #143
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Some pretty sweet torque for pump gas, man...
Maybe you're dropping boost intentionally due to fuel limits though...

I'm interested to see where this goes.
He said that right now his limitation was fuel pressure, from the pumps being insufficient (because the injectors are only at circa 78%)

Once he gets a pump that's better equipped to handle those sorts of HP numbers, he'll definitely be making serious HP and Torque well into the 7000's
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:50 AM   #144
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He aid that right now his limitation was fuel pressure, from the pumps being insufficient (because the injectors are only at circa 78%)

Once he gets a pump that's better equipped to handle those sorts of HP numbers, he'll definitely be making serious HP and Torque well into the 7000's

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Old 10-19-2009, 01:03 PM   #145
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Do you have any particular power or 1/4 mile goals in mind?

Do you have a way of measuring exhaust backpressure? Looks like maybe boost/torque might be falling off - as it is there's no point in even tuning at higher rpms IMO, torque and HP are falling off pretty hard... as it is you wouldn't pick up any power spinning to to 7k that's for sure. Maybe you're dropping boost intentionally due to fuel limits though...

I'm interested to see where this goes.
Cappy,

Nope, no particular power goals. Just whatever it will make.

There is no special provision in my exhaust set-up to measure back-pressure. You think maybe the GT30R is choking the engine? I'm not at all sure that the graph above peak power and torque RPMs has much meaning at this point until I fix the fuel issue and try again. As I mentioned the ignition timing levels are not optimized yet nor (obviously) the fueling in these upper ranges. We're not going to refine the tune all the way up to 8K if it's not making any more power there. If I end up needing a bigger turbo, I'll get one.

Paul
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:10 PM   #146
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"If I need a bigger turbo"

hahahaha, its going to be fast regardless. Need to figure out where you want to stop ;)

http://www.atpturbo.com/root/maps/gt30r.htm

That's the flow map. I would actually have expected it to spool a little faster, I imagine that's something left to be ironed out in the tune.

If you do decide to go bigger, I would recommend an HTA35R from forced performance.. you get a bigger turbo but the spool up will be somewhere inbetween what you've got now and a regular 35R. generally those are good to around 650 or so hp, and the area under the curve is on average broader than those with regular 35r's.

Still, be interesting to see what it does with the system sorted and all tuned out.. I bet you won't want to mess with it for a while once you get to that point.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:22 PM   #147
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awesome results, Paul. I'm excited to see how this progresses!
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:35 PM   #148
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For what it's worth, YLD244 runs a dead stock motor, uses a GT35R, but a mid sized 35R, it comes on full boost by 3k and runs motec fuel injection and ignition, so i'd say a GT30 would be a limitation on a motor almost half a litre bigger with twice the number of valves and air flow.
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:43 PM   #149
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nice 245
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Old 07-11-2010, 03:27 AM   #150
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For what it's worth, YLD244 runs a dead stock motor, uses a GT35R, but a mid sized 35R, it comes on full boost by 3k and runs motec fuel injection and ignition, so i'd say a GT30 would be a limitation on a motor almost half a litre bigger with twice the number of valves and air flow.
Reviewing the dyno again with a little more perspective, something is off with the spool up.

It spools like the same as my T67.... that turbo should be all in almost 1000rpm sooner than it is IMO... maybe the dyno doesn't load it up very much and it spools better on the street though. I missed what sort of dyno it was and what gear the pulls were done in.
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