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Need new brakes. Lets talk big brake kits

culberro said:
Rock Auto lists the 700 MC bores as the same for a 240: 19mm/22mm or 5/8in and 7/8in.
This is the same for ABS and non. Maybe it was a particular year of MC? Someday I'll have to make the trip up to check out the Fire Breathing Monster.... Still for sale?
Click to expand...

Seems like master is bigger bore size.

For sale to the right person for the right price.

Now with very fancy new turbo that works well.
 
Ok, bear with me on this - I have AP Racing CP5200 calipers on the front, with their 328/28 floating rotors on alloy hats.

Could I cut the rotor section off my rear discs on the lathe, stick them back on to perform handbrake duties, then put the same setup as is on the front albeit with smaller discs over the top (ignoring the issue of being overbraked at the rear/under braked at the front for now)?
 
culberro said:
Rock Auto lists the 700 MC bores as the same for a 240: 19mm/22mm or 5/8in and 7/8in.
This is the same for ABS and non. Maybe it was a particular year of MC? Someday I'll have to make the trip up to check out the Fire Breathing Monster.... Still for sale?
Click to expand...


5/8" is .625"

19mm is .748" which is close enough to .750" aka 3/4"

thus 19mm is not 5/8".

5/8" is 15,875mm

in braking terms, miles from 19mm
 
Derp'd that one. Totally missed the conversion on that. Turns out there is even a bigger MC for a 740, just not in the year range I was looking for.
 
Apparently not enough room between pads and drum to bolt a bell on top of a handbrake drum. Back to the drawing board.
 
Dammit said:
Apparently not enough room between pads and drum to bolt a bell on top of a handbrake drum. Back to the drawing board.
Click to expand...

Others have made OMG expensive solutions. I got to remove a set of aluminum E-Brake drums which had fancy rotors bolted to them. Just took a few times with a sticky e-brake for them to be toast... And of course the e-brake shoe adjusters would not turn to get the shoes over the lip. Not pretty.

Do you park on hills enough to need the handbrake? The rallycar with a spool in the rear gets front wheels turned and left in gear when parked. But I don't park it on hills in SanFran. But then the Volvo e-brake won't hold one either... Will it!
 
Dammit said:
Apparently not enough room between pads and drum to bolt a bell on top of a handbrake drum. Back to the drawing board.
Click to expand...


There's a couple of handy standard flat disc bolt circles here in Fortress America? and they are 8 bolts on 7" PCD and 7 5/8" with 8 or 10 bolts..
I think the idea of retaining the moped sized brake shoes for the MOT is that you start with a new rotor and chop off the disc part LEAVING a lip around the base that you can drill a 8 on 7" PCD or a 7.65 PCD then bolt on a flat rotor of the desired size, fab brakets to mount caliper and away ya go..

Claro?
 
After years of racing with really really good results on stock Volvo calipers with Hawk blue pads (the actual low-mid temp race ones), I'm not sure why anyone would feel the need to spend the money and time converting them to something else, unless you enjoy the challenge, are going for a certain look, whatever. If that's the case, do whatever you want, it's fun. If it's function, however, I'm not sure I could justify it.

$250 spent on a track day to get more out of the driver is a way better performance upgrade than $250 spent on brakes you don't NEED.
 
shoestring said:
After years of racing with really really good results on stock Volvo calipers with Hawk blue pads (the actual low-mid temp race ones), I'm not sure why anyone would feel the need to spend the money and time converting them to something else, unless you enjoy the challenge, are going for a certain look, whatever. If that's the case, do whatever you want, it's fun. If it's function, however, I'm not sure I could justify it.

$250 spent on a track day to get more out of the driver is a way better performance upgrade than $250 spent on brakes you don't NEED.
Click to expand...

Brake upgrades I have done have all been of necessity.

Brakes done right don't need a set of brake pads and rotors for each event.

I'm really not into applying the pedal in the middle; only to have it sink under my foot or have the brakes just not slow the car cuz they are smoked. Been there. Done that.

If you have not smoked your brakes you are not going fast enough. :wave:
 
shoestring said:
After years of racing with really really good results on stock Volvo calipers with Hawk blue pads (the actual low-mid temp race ones), I'm not sure why anyone would feel the need to spend the money and time converting them to something else, unless you enjoy the challenge, are going for a certain look, whatever. If that's the case, do whatever you want, it's fun. If it's function, however, I'm not sure I could justify it.

$250 spent on a track day to get more out of the driver is a way better performance upgrade than $250 spent on brakes you don't NEED.
Click to expand...


To all the above:

Obviously you've been play racing in some play race class in low powered junk in some limited mod class with other amateur play racers playing at "racing" because the 240 brakes are adequate for the design and intended use of the car, they are just a tad marginal--especially the fronts, in even vigorous amateur use.
They are simply too small disc and too small caliper and too small pad volume.

I do agree that 99.9% of even play racers could get a lot more from improving their driving and from vigorous brutal training and discipline like Russian Spesnatz boot camp--not the normal SCCA type crap where some fat pimply nerd rides along droning bullsh1t only to scream like a schoolgirl at any aggressive braking--but serious training teaching the drivers to apply gas and brakes correctly..:nod:
Alas this is Merikuh and the solution to everything in Merikuh is always external--buy more power..buy wider tires..:roll:

That does not change the simple fact that a) the brakes are barely adequate except for beginner and b) mastering braking---the most powerful system (or should be) in the car is the key to happiness in racing and rally..



And c) if you haven't fingered that out them you are probably as said, in some SCCA type vanity play class and the results and success or lack of it is totally meaningless either way as a foundation for advising others of anything except the way of and rules and cheating in that single class..

So, H production? IT xx?
 
shoestring said:
After years of racing with really really good results on stock Volvo calipers with Hawk blue pads (the actual low-mid temp race ones), I'm not sure why anyone would feel the need to spend the money and time converting them to something else, unless you enjoy the challenge, are going for a certain look, whatever. If that's the case, do whatever you want, it's fun. If it's function, however, I'm not sure I could justify it.

$250 spent on a track day to get more out of the driver is a way better performance upgrade than $250 spent on brakes you don't NEED.
Click to expand...

We are currently running a set of Hawk Blues on the front of the rally car, and DTC30s out back. I'm not overly impressed with the Blues. They made it 2 events and they started to fade. Upon inspection the front pads were white, and the rotors were about worn through. This was with using fresh RFB600 brake fluid. This is with a driver who does not brake hard or brake late.

The Hawk HPwhatever pads were fine for the first year or two of racing, then as speed increased and braking distances got shorter, they were not up to the task at all. The Blues are a bandaid until bigger calipers and rotors can be fitted this winter.
 
Also keep in mind that brakes do not stop the car, tires do. A big brake upgrade with 29 piston calipers won't make any difference if your tires can't handle the increased brake torque and just lock up under any sort of pedal application. If you are talking about increased rotor area for superior cooling, then that's a whole different story.
 
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