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Old 11-07-2018, 11:43 AM   #126
240-FAN
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The car ran good b4 your work? Did you manhandle the AMM getting it in and out? You basically need to verify the key systems are all working. It sounds very fuel related to me, so I would be verifying the in tank pump flows by pulling the hose and bumping the key, if no flow then you may have found the issue. With these cars I always pull the fuel pump relay and resolder all connections, just for piece of mind. I also replace all vacuum lines. Check for vacuum leaks by starting the car and spraying starter fluid around. What is the condition of the ignition components? If unknown, new plugs, wires, cap, and rotor button are always a good idea. Something as simple as the rotor button can stop the car in it's tracks... pull things off inspect. def see how it runs without the AMM...
Yeah car ran perfectly fine before the work. It was a dog as to be expected with 240k+ miles and a slushbox.

I did disconnect the AMM when I was originally trying to figure out why the starter was spinning without engaging the flywheel. Didn't really pull the AMM off during the work. I guess it's worth a shot. The FPR is new (May 2018) and the cap, plugs, wires and button were all replaced about 3 years/9k miles ago. Did have the cap off during the work, but I verified that it's seated on there correctly.

I have a spare ebay fuel pump relay and could swap it out for the interim. It's the one that sits behind the glovebox correct?

@PromiseRing - I re-read your last post. The severity of the stumble is inconsistent. Sometimes it wants to just not go and other times its just minor hiccups.
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:35 PM   #127
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Intake grounds tight. Intake manifold tight? Spray around with brake cleaner, carb cleaner etc and see if you can get idle to change/stall/stumble.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:38 AM   #128
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I never messed with the ground on the intake. I did however take the ground wire that attached to the valve cover during the work and have it re-attached to the rear most bolt on the passenger side and torqued to 9 lb-ft. This ground wire now does touch part of the firewall, but I would think this is not an issue?

When I unplugged the AMM, the little white seal kinda just fell off. I then proceeded to drive the car around the 3 miles of 45mph roads around my place. The car runs lean and the CEL is on. However, NO STUMBLING. Is there any way I can get this thing on the freeway with the AMM unplugged without causing any damage? Over the last mile on the way back, I plugged the AMM back in and once again, it would stumble.

Now, another thing I observed with the AMM unplugged was that I have to ease into the throttle during take off from a complete stop. Otherwise it hesitates for a second, catches up and then goes. When I did this mini test drive, it was about 42F outside. Later in the night, when it was about 35F, I started the car again (still with AMM unplugged) it was struggling to idle. I didn't really drive it around much but I was able to putz around in the community.

Never sprayed brake cleaner around, do I just hit it on the vacuum lines and by the intake gasket?
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:16 PM   #129
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Unplugging the AMM makes it run rich, not lean. Because it puts the car in limp home mode and full rich is 'safer' than full lean. Also, just because it ran better with it unplugged doesn’t mean the AMM is bad, but if you can get your hands on a spare it is sure worth swapping out.

My money is on AMM (assuming it was removed during the conversion for whatever reason?), or still a timing issue, or something even more obvious.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:41 PM   #130
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If it was a timing issue, wouldn’t I be having the issue in a repeatable fashion and the disconnecting/reconnecting the battery won’t cause it to run correctly for a brief period?

Asking this because I would prefer to not have to take the timing stuff off. It’s cold and I don’t have a garage brrr
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:42 PM   #131
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If it was a timing issue, wouldn’t I be having the issue in a repeatable fashion and the disconnecting/reconnecting the battery won’t cause it to run correctly for a brief period?

Asking this because I would prefer to not have to take the timing stuff off. It’s cold and I don’t have a garage brrr
Most likely yes. Any junkyards near you? You could a spare AMM anyway.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:59 PM   #132
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Spray around and see if anything happens. I find sir leaks with a scan tool monitoring fuel trim data and some brake cleaner. Sometimes if you hit the right spot car will run much differently if there's a leak.
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:31 PM   #133
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When they say "spray around"....they mean with the car idling start by spraying around the intake manifold gasket area. No changes in idle...no skips or hesitations? Then on to another area.....spray around the throttle body and where vacuum lines come out of the intake manifold. Anything about the idle change? If not keep spraying areas on the engine (I'd steer clear of the exhaust manifold) and see if something about it changes. I'm with another poster who proposed it is the plastic intake "accordian" that goes from the AMM to the throttle body. Had a crack around a plastic ports on one myself with my first Volvo 240.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:27 AM   #134
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If you didn't take the AMM and intake accordion off during your work am I to understand you did not clean the throttle body?
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:26 AM   #135
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No JYs around me that have any RWD Bricks. Anyone here who lives in SE MI or NW OH who can let me borrow their AMM to verify? I am going to assume $30 AMM from eBay are no good?

Good to note on the spraying. I can't do anything for the next couple of days as it is snowing here and below freezing.

I did not take the AMM and the accordion (just unplugged the AMM). So throttle body was never cleaned. But the car ran fine before all the work with the throttle body being as is (assuming it is dirty....)
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:39 PM   #136
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Snow/cold shouldn’t matter if you’re just changing an AMM. It’s a 5 minute job so no excuses you can get known good AMM on here for like $40 shipped. But I’m not condoning the parts cannon..
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Old 11-09-2018, 06:56 PM   #137
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Still good to have a spare...
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:32 PM   #138
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Still good to have a spare...
100% agreed
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:47 AM   #139
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Lol I wasn't trying to find excuses. It's definitely an easy job. I sprayed around with throttle body cleaner and there was no change in idle.

I disconnected and re-connected the battery.
1. Day before: It was about 38F and the car ran fine over 8 miles of 45mph roads and freeways.
2. Yesterday: It was about 35-36F. It ran fine for a mile on the 45mph road, stumbled as I was merging onto the freeway, very minor stumbling when going from 55mph to 70mph. The car ran fine later when I was putzing around on 35-45mph roads and on the 4 miles freeway drive back home.

With the AMM plugged in, no error codes. With the AMM off, its 1-2-1. Does the B-cam/loping have anything to do with cold weather?

The car will be going into storage end of this week.
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:26 AM   #140
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Lol I wasn't trying to find excuses. It's definitely an easy job. I sprayed around with throttle body cleaner and there was no change in idle.

I disconnected and re-connected the battery.
1. Day before: It was about 38F and the car ran fine over 8 miles of 45mph roads and freeways.
2. Yesterday: It was about 35-36F. It ran fine for a mile on the 45mph road, stumbled as I was merging onto the freeway, very minor stumbling when going from 55mph to 70mph. The car ran fine later when I was putzing around on 35-45mph roads and on the 4 miles freeway drive back home.

With the AMM plugged in, no error codes. With the AMM off, its 1-2-1. Does the B-cam/loping have anything to do with cold weather?

The car will be going into storage end of this week.
Here comes a long post.

The B cam loping has everything to do with the cold weather. It will always lump and sound like it has a fat cam anytime it's below maybe ~40F. It's nothing to worry about and sounds kind of neat IMO. At least that's the case with LH2.4.

Your symptoms actually remind me exactly of 2 failures I've had/seen of an in tank pump failure. When they fail, they are a huge restriction to the main pump and make it work wayyy harder. After driving for a few miles, depending on climate, vehicle, and main pump health, the car will begin to stumble. I have read people saying you can drive with a bad tank pump indefinitely, and that can be true.

Case 1: My 93 240 left me stumbling and stranded when I was in the high altitudes of Yellowstone as well as Denver, where fuel evaporates much more easily due to lower pressures.

Case 2: My 90 740 had a 100% seized in tank pump, and a noisy main pump. However, this car never showed any issues whatsoever! Needless to say I replaced both pumps and associated filters anyway.

Case 3: My buddy bought a 90 (91?) 740 turbo with a 'bad fuel pump' (they ALWAYS blame the main pump!) but I cycled the key 5 times and it came to life and drove us 1+ hrs before stumbling and dying. I'd let it sit for 5 minutes, then drive a few more miles, and finally it got bad enough to not start very easily. We believe the tank pump is dead in this vehicle. In order to get home, we installed the brand new Bosch main pump that came with the car and low and behold, it stumbled after 10 minutes of driving, but got us home and never died.

So to me it really seems dependent upon the vehicle. Sometimes you're lucky sometimes you're not.

Again I don't think it's likely that your car was just fine before mods and now isn't fine because of parts failure like the pump, but it's definitely worth checking to be sure.
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:39 AM   #141
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I think you might be right about the fuel pump issues. I filled up the tank and the car runs perfect! She goes into storage for the next 6 months. So probably something I will check out in the Spring.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:43 PM   #142
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I think you might be right about the fuel pump issues. I filled up the tank and the car runs perfect! She goes into storage for the next 6 months. So probably something I will check out in the Spring.
That is more than likely a torn hose that transfers fuel from tank pump to sending unit. They degrade and fuel struggles to get out of the tank below ~1/2 tank. The pump lifts the fuel, then it just gets pushed out of the holes in that hose rather than going to main pump.

http://cleanflametrap.com/transferPump.htm


Might as well replace the fuel line an tank pump while it's out.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:19 AM   #143
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I plan on doing this next year in Spring. Car is in storage and will be sitting there until late April/beginning of May.
When I had changed my in-tank pump (to Airtex brand), the sending unit was pretty cruddy and the hoses were beat. So might be worthwhile change them all out.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:23 AM   #144
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I plan on doing this next year in Spring. Car is in storage and will be sitting there until late April/beginning of May.
When I had changed my in-tank pump (to Airtex brand), the sending unit was pretty cruddy and the hoses were beat. So might be worthwhile change them all out.
You changed the tank pump but didn't change that little piece of degrading rubber!? lol

I actually didn't on my 93 either. It was in fantastic shape. But if they show any signs of wear it's always a good idea to change them.
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