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#76 |
Board Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Francisco
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![]() Stereophile, how much did you pay for a gallon of E85?
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#77 | |
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2007
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![]() Quote:
Dear Suzette - The injectors are the OEM C320 parts. No different injectors for E85. Our set price is $279.50 plus $60 refundable core deposit. Bruce Holt, Owner-Fiveomotorsport I dont know why he say there is no different injector for e85.yesterday i tried to run the car with 2 gallons of e85 with 93 octance gasoline.i just noticed the engine run cooler at around 80centigrade almost all the time unlike before its always on 90centigrade.is it ok if i always add a gallon or two everytime i put gas on my car?will it damage the engine? thanks! |
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#78 | |
Guest
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When he said that they use the same size injectors for E85, it is probably true. The E85 compatible C230 probably has a different ECU software, if there ever was an E85 version of the C230...? I didnīt know that there was such a thing. But I can look for larger injectors that might be suitable for you. Other members reading this will probably also chime in with suggestions. |
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#79 | |
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I'm looking forward for the part number.Hope my Car(Mercedes C320) can deal with 50/50 mixture for now. How much octane will it increase if I put 91 octane gasoline with E85?Is there a computation for that? |
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#80 |
PV Abuser
![]() Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
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![]() There's probably a precise calculation, but in general terms just assume you are mixing 91 octane fuel with 105 octane fuel, and just weight the numbers by the relative amounts and average. IN any case, the added octane rating is of no importance unless you are boosting the bejesus out of the car and *need* octane higher than 91.
And adding E85 to the gas shouldn't harm the motor as long as the CEL doesn't come on. As you add E85, you gradually increase the amount of fuel that needs to be injected with each cylinder stroke. The computer will sense this via the oxygen sensor in the exhaust and automatically increase the injection amount as part of its normal feedback operation. The computer has a certain amount of leeway to increase (or decrease) the 'normal' injection amounts to acheive a proper oxygen sensor reading. If it finds it needs to go beyond that limit (whatever it is) it will assume something is mechanically wrong and light up the CEL (check engine light). At that point, the computer might stop trying to adjust the fuel mixture, and you could be in danger of going lean and causing some damage to the motor if driven hard. But as long as the CEL doesn't go on, the computer is adjusting the fuel mixture appropriately and it won't see any problem. Putting bigger injectors on is just a way to mechanically set the system to inject more fuel, so the computer will be in the middle of its normal operating range when E85 is in the tank. The issue with that is that if you fill it up with gasoline then the computer will be running the motor too rich, and it will have to try and adjust the injection amounts down and it might set off a CEL. True flex fuel vehicles just have a small sensor in the fuel system that can detect the relative percentage of ethanol in the fuel and the computer then automatically changes its expected injection amounts to suit. So it won't set of a CEl unless something actually does go wrong with either the injection system or the oxygen sensor.
__________________
'63 PV Rat Rod '93 245 16VT Classic #1141 |
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#81 | |
Guest
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![]() Quote:
The octane rating will however go up a lot with very small blends like 80% gasoline and 20% E85. That will probably give you more than the theoretical (0.8*91) + (0.2*105) = 93.8 octane. Probably closer to 95 octane. |
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#82 |
Guest
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![]() Since this is my first winter on E85, I have made some tests and observations.
The tests made here are valid on my car only and may differ from your setup. What is true for all cars running E85 though, is: At ~15*C ethanol starts to condensate at the metal sufaces. And at ~2-5*C it is starting to get hard to get the required fuel to enter the cylinders which results in difficulties starting the car. The temperatures mentioned here are the temperatures in the intake runners, the head and in the cylinders. The air temperature also has a to do with it, but if your engine is just a little bit warm the car will start right up. Higher dynamic compression ratio at cranking will help with starting the car. In reality that means that an engine with a T-cam will be easier to start than a K-cam, V15 or KG2T. Higher static compression ratio will also help the E85 fuel to ignite. In reality that means that a NA car or a +T (9.5:1 CR or higher) will be easier to start than a turbo engine (8.7:1 CR). OK, now to the tests made on my car: All tests are made on a cold engine. 100% E85 @ >10*C = Instant start. No difficulties at warmup. 100% E85 @ 5-10*C = Takes 2-3 tries to fire up. Some power loss at warmup. 100% E85 @ 0-5*C = Will start after repeated tries if you wait 10 seconds inbetween. Much power loss at warmup and the car wants to stall if you push it too hard. 100% E85 @ <0*C = Hehe... good luck... 90% E85 + 10% gas @ <10*C = Instant or near instant start. I have only tested this down to -12*C so far, but it will probably start as good at -20*C. Some power loss at warmup. |
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#83 |
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2007
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![]() Im now mixing my gasoline with 40 to 50 %of E85 and noticed a slight increase of power.I still like to change the fuel injector so I can fully use E85.Anybody knows where can I buy an injector for my C320?Thanks!
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#84 |
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2007
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![]() Hello
I just want to ask if these MSD fuel injectors will work for my C320 conversion to run on E85?I got these informations at www.horsepowerfreaks.com yesterday. Thank you! Universal Injector, 26lb/hr, 2ohm, (2/0.5A) Quad 4 #6091 Universal Injector, 24 lb/hr, saturated #6261 |
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#85 | |
Guest
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![]() Quote:
You car uses high impedance injectors, and those are low impedance injectors. Maybe you can solve it by installing resistors in series with the low impedance injectors...? I donīt know how your injection system works, if it fires the injectors one by one, in pairs or all at once. |
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#86 |
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2007
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![]() I see.Thank you for the reply!
I got another one and the brand is Venom.Are these high impendance? Universal 23 lbs/hr - up to 295hp (Set of 4) #184767 24 lbs/hr - up to 310hp (Set of 8) #133613 |
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#87 |
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2007
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![]() I bought 24lb injector bosh for 295 dollar US for set of six.I'll set it up this week.Does it bring up my cars horsepower when I put these injectors or it would be just the same other than I can use straight E85?Thanks!
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#88 |
Guest
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![]() It will probably raise your power a little since the ignition will never have to back off because of ping. It will also cool better and give a cleaner burn. Many things that contributes a little bit each to give you some power.
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#89 | |
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2007
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![]() Quote:
I have a friend who's also interested on using e85 for his 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer OZ and the stock fuel injector is 240cc.Do you think he still has to change his fuel injectors to a bigger size or 240cc will do E85? Thank you!Now my car is E85 100% running now...! |
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#90 |
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2007
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![]() Thank you!Now my car is E85 100% running now...!
Last edited by suzetteebreo; 02-12-2007 at 12:27 PM.. |
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#91 |
Board Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Twin Cities
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![]() wow- great write up.
So- I'm game. the E85 around me is generally $.40-.60 less than regular unleaded gasoline(RUG).and the farmer down the road gets paid way better for his corn if i burn this instead of OIL. Here in MN they are building new ethanol plants all over. farmer co-ops, mostly. the cold start issue may be resolved by installing an old webasto I have, if it burns ethanol OK. or mix RUG with E-85. or switch injectors and burn RUG all winter. Anyhow- I have a 93 945 with regina. any ideas on where to find/ what vehicles use a lrger injector for this application? If I could find some at the pick and pull, it would only be a $20 bill. thanks,Mo
__________________
good luck,mo 93 945 NA, regina. Wifes Daily 165K 84 mercedes-benz 300TD 321K |
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#92 | |
Guest
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Get some that are 35-40% larger. Maybe the Turbo injectors are suitable...? |
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#93 |
Board Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Twin Cities
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![]() Ok, the wife's home, and I checked out the injectors. they are blue tops? and the number is 1389563 which is molded into the blue top. also, 182H is stamped on another side, with a heated brand type stamp, it appears.
Is there an online database to research these injectors? would they push enough fuel with an FPR, or should I be looking for different Injectors? Is there any major differences that I should be aware of to convert this over, being a NA regina car? I would love to burn ethanol, as our other car is running used cooking oil, this would make our cars pretty much independent of foreign oil. thnks,mo |
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#94 |
Guest
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![]() I canīt find anything on that number.
Doesnīt the injector have a number that looks like this: 0 280 150 xxx? |
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#95 |
Board Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Twin Cities
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![]() well, I couldnt see any other no's. heres some pics,though. maybe I am not looking in the right place.
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#96 |
Guest
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![]() Ok... so you have Siemens injectors...
I expected Bosch. After much digging on the internet I found the right specifications for those injectors. 1389563 14.2 ohm 192cc/min @ 3bar To run E85 you need 42% bigger injectors to be exact. That means that you should look for 273cc/min injectors. The turbo injectors should be ~296cc/min if you use them together with a 2.5bar FPR, but that sounds like it may be too much flow. I donīt have any suggestions at this time, but the size you should be aiming for is 273cc/min. |
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#97 |
Board Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: bristol, ct
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![]() why cant we have e85 on the east coast. id so be in it,
balls deep |
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#98 |
Board Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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![]() @frpe82, I'm aiming for 300+ hp and planning a E85 conversion, how big should my injectors be? I'd like some reserve because future performance goals......
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#99 | |
All idiot, no savant
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
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![]() Quote:
![]() (probably you know since you are doing the conversion ![]()
__________________
240 | 1991 | 345K Km | B230F+T | Cosworth T3 60/63 | M90 | TrueTrack (parked for a few months) dd: 940 | 1992 | B230FB Husaberg FE450 70 degree '12 mx/supermoto swapped |
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#100 |
Guest
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