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Old 06-11-2012, 05:34 PM   #26
mtd240
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Interesting - I am going to grab 2 quarts as well, to toss in when I attempt to replace the M47 gaskets in a week or two...
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:55 PM   #27
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Is this the OEM Volvo fluid? I can't find the part number to save my life..

http://www.vivaperformance.com/genui...mission-fluid/

Just $13 on Tasca
I doubt this is compatible with an M4x transmission despite what they claim. The label indicates it's a 75w90 GL-4 gear oil which is way to heavy for the M4x transmissions??

FWIW I'll throw in my .02 for Amsoil SuperShift Transmission Fluid https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/art.aspx, it's fully synthetic in the proper Type F ATF specification that Volvo calls for unlike the Redline MTL. I have it in my 90 240 and it shifts great, I have no idea what was in there but it looked liked mud when I drained it and the shifting improved after. I also have a hard time with the "filled for life" BS that Volvo preaches, sounds like a good way to keep the stealership bays full...
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:10 PM   #28
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I also have a hard time with the "filled for life" BS that Volvo preaches, sounds like a good way to keep the stealership bays full...
So do I. As gears & brgs break in and then wear, the oil should be changed periodically to remove the wear particles. This regardless of what type oil is used, dino or syn. Just my opinion from years of experience.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:40 PM   #29
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So do I. As gears & brgs break in and then wear, the oil should be Filtered periodically to remove the wear particles. This regardless of what type oil is used, dino or syn. Just my opinion from years of experience.
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Well, neither of you guys have had exeprienced using extremely high vapor pressure synthetic oils in high vacuum pumps used for toxic chemical processing enviorments that have service life that makes these redblocks seem like sewing machines.
I've spent 35 yrs doing so, and across the board the industry won't throw it away, they filter it and put it back in. The very inert synthetic fluid (Trade name Fomblin, E.I. DuPont) simply won't break down in the harshest chemical environments. It's upwards of $200/LB (1 pint = approx 1 lb).

Now that's the best of the best stuff. In all the M47's I've opened up none had red ATF fluid ( I can count at least 6 M47's) and I believe Volvo has used such a fluid in their M47 (hell they actually use the claim as a marketing pitch, something you cannot just BS the whole world about), and would not necessarilly find it in the M46.

You out there, stop comparing the M46 to the M47. There is no common M4x.They are so differrent they should not be in this discussion.
An M46 having a hydraulic fluid coupling overdrive needs the ATF properties as the temp, valving, and presssures dictate very different oil environment than a manual trans.
The M47 having a 5th gear will benefit from an oil that maintains viscosity but has stiction to surfaces at normal temperatures and pressures. Since the 5th gear output is high on the case of the M47 an oil that has higher viscosity and stays on the gears and bearings are better. These areas only get fresh oil at higher rpm's. Good to overfill.

And the comment about 75w Gear oil too thick, that is nearly a watery viscosity when warm, just like the fluids that came out, that is, the OEM fluid, not ATF. M46 should use an ATF Type F

Edit:
Looking at the pic of Angle Gear oil, it has the Volvo logo on it, but the pic of the Manual Trans oil is blocked out. I think this may not be Volvo, I'll wait to see a bottle from a dealer.
And their suggesting that it's the same for all cars up to P2 cars. I don't accept that. Maybe owners of 850/S/V cars cam chime in.

Last edited by vvpete; 06-11-2012 at 08:38 PM..
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:53 PM   #30
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I run redline type F and noticed a big difference for te better and still am having great results in the hottest summer and coldest winter. I researched this a lot. Redline is one of the few that can really call itself a true synthetic.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=219805

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Old 06-11-2012, 10:53 PM   #31
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Fixed

Well, neither of you guys have had exeprienced using extremely high vapor pressure synthetic oils in high vacuum pumps used for toxic chemical processing enviorments that have service life that makes these redblocks seem like sewing machines.
I've spent 35 yrs doing so, and across the board the industry won't throw it away, they filter it and put it back in. The very inert synthetic fluid (Trade name Fomblin, E.I. DuPont) simply won't break down in the harshest chemical environments. It's upwards of $200/LB (1 pint = approx 1 lb).

Now that's the best of the best stuff. In all the M47's I've opened up none had red ATF fluid ( I can count at least 6 M47's) and I believe Volvo has used such a fluid in their M47 (hell they actually use the claim as a marketing pitch, something you cannot just BS the whole world about), and would not necessarilly find it in the M46.

You out there, stop comparing the M46 to the M47. There is no common M4x.They are so differrent they should not be in this discussion.
An M46 having a hydraulic fluid coupling overdrive needs the ATF properties as the temp, valving, and presssures dictate very different oil environment than a manual trans.
The M47 having a 5th gear will benefit from an oil that maintains viscosity but has stiction to surfaces at normal temperatures and pressures. Since the 5th gear output is high on the case of the M47 an oil that has higher viscosity and stays on the gears and bearings are better. These areas only get fresh oil at higher rpm's. Good to overfill.

And the comment about 75w Gear oil too thick, that is nearly a watery viscosity when warm, just like the fluids that came out, that is, the OEM fluid, not ATF. M46 should use an ATF Type F

Edit:
Looking at the pic of Angle Gear oil, it has the Volvo logo on it, but the pic of the Manual Trans oil is blocked out. I think this may not be Volvo, I'll wait to see a bottle from a dealer.
And their suggesting that it's the same for all cars up to P2 cars. I don't accept that. Maybe owners of 850/S/V cars cam chime in.
Sorry, vvpete,I've never seen an M47 with an oil filter . Those metal shavings/paticles need to come out , and changing the trans oil is the only way on our Volvos.

Therefore, IMO, an M47 trans will benefit from changing it's oil periodically.

I'm using Royal Purple Synchro Max trans syn oil in mine. It is working well in mine.

But I'm using it because when I changed it I couldn't find the OEM Volvo M47 trans oil readily, for a good price. I'm running @ 2.2-2.5 qts in my M47. This required jacking the front of the car up pretty high to be able to pour it all in .

And I agree that the OEM M47 Syn oil is best to use if one can get it,in an M47, & using ATF type F in a M46 is probably best especially for the $ spent, (due to hydraulic operation of the Laycock OD unit)and they also benefit from frequent ATF type F trans oil changes as well. But many are doing well with Redline syn in M46s it seems.

And while we're at it, changing the diff oil periodically is a damn good idea too. I'm using Royal Purple diff oil at the moment too.

Last edited by smokeyfan1000; 06-11-2012 at 11:15 PM..
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:15 AM   #32
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vvpete: When are you going to pick up the trans fluid? I already have a tasca order, so I may just add it to what I have. The part number can't be a fake, if I order it directly from Volvo Just want to make sure I'm not dumping something into my M47 that I shouldn't be..

Also, I believe I found the "original" part number, on volvoforums.com: 1161324. It was superceded by 1161645.



Edit: Found a thread that mentions someone using the fluid. It's real! I guess I will give it a go

Last edited by mtd240; 06-12-2012 at 09:20 AM..
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:43 PM   #33
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Sorry, vvpete,I've never seen an M47 with an oil filter . Those metal shavings/paticles need to come out , and changing the trans oil is the only way on our Volvos.

Therefore, IMO, an M47 trans will benefit from changing it's oil periodically.

I'm using Royal Purple Synchro Max trans syn oil in mine. It is working well in mine.

But I'm using it because when I changed it I couldn't find the OEM Volvo M47 trans oil readily, for a good price. I'm running @ 2.2-2.5 qts in my M47. This required jacking the front of the car up pretty high to be able to pour it all in .

And I agree that the OEM M47 Syn oil is best to use if one can get it,in an M47, & using ATF type F in a M46 is probably best especially for the $ spent, (due to hydraulic operation of the Laycock OD unit)and they also benefit from frequent ATF type F trans oil changes as well. But many are doing well with Redline syn in M46s it seems.

And while we're at it, changing the diff oil periodically is a damn good idea too. I'm using Royal Purple diff oil at the moment too.
The first time I busted my knuckles trying to get out the 'Made for Life" drain plug I mangled it so had to get a new one from the dealer. The only kind they stock are the magnetic type, expensive but they work.
The first time I had an M47 car I took it to a shop in San Jose for work and asked them to change the trans fluid. I begged them to do it, said It didn't need changing, and even came in with Redline MTL (that was back in 1995) and they gave me the story/scoop on the 'super duper syn fluid' and told me they always filter it and put it back in. He drained it, showed me the diffeerence and I was convinced. They used a simple painters funnel filter and it came clean and clear (was actually nearly particle free and clear anyway at 185k miles on the '89 245).
Thats how you do it.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:28 PM   #34
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The first time I busted my knuckles trying to get out the 'Made for Life" drain plug I mangled it so had to get a new one from the dealer. The only kind they stock are the magnetic type, expensive but they work.
The magnetic dran plug helps, but won't catch it all. Much better than without a mag. plug though.

Quote:
The first time I had an M47 car I took it to a shop in San Jose for work and asked them to change the trans fluid. I begged them to do it, said It didn't need changing, and even came in with Redline MTL (that was back in 1995) and they gave me the story/scoop on the 'super duper syn fluid' and told me they always filter it and put it back in. He drained it, showed me the diffeerence and I was convinced. They used a simple painters funnel filter and it came clean and clear (was actually nearly particle free and clear anyway at 185k miles on the '89 245).
Thats how you do it.
Sounds OK, but I'd prefer to just change it & add new fluid. Either way is better than never changing/filtering it.

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Old 06-15-2012, 03:16 PM   #35
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The first M47 I had I drained the trans fluid at 200k miles and thought as many say it would be plain-Jane ATF Type F but it was not, it was a clear colorless very thin fluid. I went to the local Volvo dealer and inquired about it and got this story.

Don't change it, we never do unless the trans leaks it out. In 17 years we've never change one M47. The fluid that Volvo puts in is a lifetime synthetic oil, that is put in at the factory after a break-in period (never mind the owners manual). Then the service manager went to the back got a small blue book with listings of specifications, and pointed to a line that gave the MIL-Spec numbers something like MIL-1927 from memory so don't quote me on that. He looked up the part number and said it was $22/quart and special order. I didn't heed his advice, drained it and put in MTL. BTW the plug is sealed at the facory, and if you find the plug easilly removed, and it has red oil in it someone has already drained the orig oil and replaced it. Now this was in 1999.
Fast forward to 2006 and my current '91 245. Same story, same clear fluid, 225k mi, same trip to the same dealer (I was prepared to spend $22/qt), and same service mgr said it was now $109/qt!

Anyway the orig oil is very good stuff, and if you decide to change it to another synthetic, go for it, as I did twice, but in hindsight, would have left it alone.

Started a FYI thread because I could not find this one on my Phone. The part number is 1161 645-5 For the Volvo Fluid and list for $22.91 per Lit. Still a special order. Got some ordered so we will see if it come in next week.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:31 PM   #36
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I ordered some from tasca on Tuesday - will post when It arrives. $13.95 / quart. It is the same fluid use in the 850 manual transmissions
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:35 PM   #37
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I ordered some from tasca on Tuesday - will post when It arrives. $13.95 / quart. It is the same fluid use in the 850 manual transmissions
I saw the part number after I post and thanks I paid $17.18 and will have to go back to Huntsville to pick it up. Guess I should have checked a little farther.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:36 AM   #38
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Got the fluid in yesterday!! Let the pictures speak for themselves - will be putting it in next weekend.







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Old 07-05-2012, 08:05 AM   #39
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Fluid is in. Shifts smoother than Redline - we will see if fuel economy changes :-)
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:30 AM   #40
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Why would your fuel economy change? Change in frictional constant!?!?

More likely, you will imagine an improvement in mpg because you think you've found the holy m47 grail!
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:37 AM   #41
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Why would your fuel economy change? Change in frictional constant!?!?

More likely, you will imagine an improvement in mpg because you think you've found the holy m47 grail!
I am hoping! It will probably go down..oh well. Nice to know the SUPERDUPER fluid still exists for "cheap", though
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:56 AM   #42
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Fluid is in. Shifts smoother than Redline - we will see if fuel economy changes :-)
How much smoother? Like "new fluid" smoother?.... or "OMG, like a new transmission" smoother?

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Old 07-05-2012, 12:31 PM   #43
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How much smoother? Like "new fluid" smoother?.... or "OMG, like a new transmission" smoother?

-Ryan
Well, the Redline MTL that was in there had <5,000 miles on it (pulled the trans on Saturday to resolve a "clicking noise" and drained the fluid *again* - we think, after all that, it was a poor clutch cable install. ), so any noticeable difference in shifting "ease" is a genuine difference between the two new fluids, not the difference between "old" and "new".

I am not a professional driver - but the car definitely *feels* and shifts smoother than Redline. No, not "OMG new transmission" smoother lol. I wasn't exactly looking for "smoother" shifts in the first place - just trying to buy the *right* fluid, and already had an order from Tasca lined up. Feels great though - I now know what it means when they say "shifts like butter".

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Old 07-05-2012, 01:53 PM   #44
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I'll have to order some. For me it's been a long time coming and knew better, just couldn't get my hands on the good stuff.
I wouder how it'll do to smooth out my sloppy 350k mile M47. I've got 60k miles on the MTL now and it has synchro issues, but they are not worn.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:13 PM   #45
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I'll have to order some. For me it's been a long time coming and knew better, just couldn't get my hands on the good stuff.
I wouder how it'll do to smooth out my sloppy 350k mile M47. I've got 60k miles on the MTL now and it has synchro issues, but they are not worn.
Since it's about time (@15,000) to change my M47 trans fluid I may try the OEM trans lube.
And see if I notice any improvement over Royal Purple Syncro Max trans lube.


Quote:
What you describe is a classic case of an M47 shifting with either a worn clutch or cable needing adjustment, or both. As the clutch gets older, the T/O bearing is engaged a bit, causing th4e input shaft to spin and the syncros not matching speeds, and as it gets hot the clutch disc spins more.
It could be worn transmission parts, but would check the clutch operation first.
+1 and always keep in mind *that clutch cables stretch with use (from new) & is also usually subject to expansion/contraction as ambient temps change drastically*, and can need yearly adjustments to compensate.

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Old 09-29-2013, 04:17 PM   #46
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I know this is an old thread, but am wondering how the "new" Volvo fluid is working out for you guys? I am going to change the fluid in my '87 245 soon. I have run Mobil 1 Dexron synthetic ATF for the past 100K, changing between 30-50K, and no problems. Ran this in several other 240's for 125K in one and 260K in another with no issues. Mobil, however, changed it to "universal" ATF, and I won't use it. Want to try the "new" stuff. My big issue is cold weather. We can get below zero here in the winter. I rarely drive the 245 in that cold of temperature anyhow, especially since they salt the roads up here... The car never sees snow or salt!
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:13 PM   #47
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I'm curious, too, "old thread" or not. I'd really like to know what the varying believers/ disbelievers decided after some time went by.

I've only just now seen anything believable about the magic OEM fluid.
When I first heard of it, I ASSumed it was a snake oil ploy. It appears to both have some merit- as well as become more reasonably priced. I'll probably flush a couple times with cheap until the crud is washed out and fluid is pristine.

The car of that era for me was a NA '86 744. I just wanted to freshen the fluids after buying the car. Redline might have helped; but since the fluid in there was nasty, probably anything would have helped. What if I'd not cared to do it is what I'm glad about.

Now, many years later, since my torque gains are limited by my pocketbook, and a T-5 isn't radical expensive; but an ALMOST plug and play M46 or M-47 might make my '90 745T more fun and less thirsty for junkyard cheap.

Which one; M46? Cast iron only? M-47?
If I can't actually drive the donor, are there telltale signs of one less abused, other than bearing/shaft play and gear chunks when the drain plug is pulled? I'll open it up tentatively to look for obvious wear- but I'm not a pro anymore, and never really was inside but just a very few. What to look for?

I may never do a real burnout; though I've heard my habit of aggressive engine braking can lunch an OEM box. I'm pretty easy on equipment, except for backing into corners on occasion- but that's FAIRLY rare. I did it more often than I would now, with the prior M46- but greasy tires and box stock didn't tax any parts. I also sold it shortly, too. Am I inviting disaster? I spent a little time around trucks, so I won't be grinding while shifting- but...

Or, am I going to the same work and expense, especially if a local T-5 could be cheap- there's still that adaptor expense.
Anyone in the Midwest want to be rid of their T-5 swap? If it were reasonably dirt cheap; I might just drive to you and pull it all myself- if that would help get out of an abandoned project.

If its just a daily driver, rare sporting modes, zero racing- but pulling the occasional light trailer or short distance parts cars- WHICH MANUAL IS BEST for a B230FT in a '90 745T?
Insights? Are there better box options? I'll probably never achieve 300 HP.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:09 AM   #48
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240k mile M47 is still shifting smooth. Put 30k miles on the new fluid so far.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:16 AM   #49
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240k mile M47 is still shifting smooth. Put 30k miles on the new fluid so far.
What is the coldest temperature that you have used it in? And how did it shift?
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:50 PM   #50
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Got about 20k on the Volvo fluid now, shifts smooth and no grinding of synchro's which happened with the MTL after 50k. There's 360k on the M47 now, still doing fine. I took it across the USA for a 5500 mile romp, ran flawlessly.

I drive it up to the top of Sandia Crest 2-3 times a week, and that's taking hairpin corners near redline in 2nd-3rd, at an elevation gain of 6000 ft over 13 mile course on the Crest Highway up then down after a good 10 mile hike. I keep thinking it'll take a dump on one of these romps and kill the M47 but it still lives no matter how hard I drive it.

I will have to say that the Volvo fluid sells today as discussed here in the thread is not the same as what Volvo puts in these lifetime fill of fluid M47's when it left the factory. The factory fluid is absolutely clear, not red, not amber, not brown or anything but crystral clear and odorless. When I recieved the Volvo fluid this past spring, it came from the bottle as a brownish fluid with a disticnt smell of Hypoid gear oil. Although it says it is synthetyic, it smells like hypoid fluid, and suspect that it may not be anything different than the Valvoline Hypoid Durablend gear oil.
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