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1979 B27F kjet wants to die on warmup/low idle

sisu_slay

Member
Joined
May 11, 2016
this is getting very annoying, i have spoken of this similar problem in a previous thread a while back.

what happens is as follows
start from cold, runs for about 30 seconds then the idle slowly drops where you have to put your foot in the gas, sputters a little, surges to normal for a few seconds, then sputters and drops again, this repeats for a while until a little past half way to operating temp if you are sitting still. if you start driving before it starts happening, it will only sputter and lose power once then be okay. it will do fine once at temperature.

if you let it sit and heat soak and go to start, it will barely run and sputter when you give it some gas all the way until almost operating temp. then runs fine at temp. it feels like it's leaning it out

i have replaced nearly everything in the fuel system aside from the actual fuel distributor (replaced line pressure o rings), the AAR, the impulse relay, and the thermo time sensor for the cold start valve. all vaccum lines and intake seals are new. timing is set to 18 btdc with CO adjusted accordingly. i havr tried returning the timing and CO to stock but results are the same.

today i replaced the lambda temp sensor under the intake and crimped on a new connector (this is pre constant idle computer era), thinking that would fix the problem, nope, still there, but with an additional problem on the highway. you will cruise at 75 t0 80 for a while, everything fine, let off the gas and it dip below 2400 rpm and suddenly will defuel the engine, getting back on the gas will have very little power with sluggish response and many misfires. this wont return to normal until you have come to a stop and either let the car die amd restart or you lay on the gas lightly at a stop light in neutral for a minute or two. it was 95?F today with a heat index of 103. funny thing is it will overcool on those days only going to 3/4 operating temp on highway.

it used to be you could unplug the o2 sensor and iy would default and not have the issue, now it's keeping it alive as i unplug it, it sputters and comes close to dying. i can hear the frequency valve buzzing more when this happens leading me to believe it's going lean.

this now has me thinking of three possible problems.
1. the coolant has purple ice water wetter in it which has done well to keep the car cool, but im suspecting it's causing too much heat transfer to the sensor ans thermostat , causing it to think it's warmer than it is and opening the (2.5 year old) thermostat to open early. as theses problems were not really prevalent during winter.

2. disturbing the lambda temp cable caused an intermittency which would make it have no signal. (unplugged the sensor for a hot start with no real change) may be time for a new harness.

3. the kjet ecu has shat the bed.

suggestions, thoughts?
 
OK, you didn't mention the new CPR.

I'd still check fuel pressure. The K-Jet fuel system is critically dependent on the correct pressure. Just because the CPR is new doesn't mean it's functioning properly or that the pressures are correct during warm up.
 
OK, you didn't mention the new CPR.

I'd still check fuel pressure. The K-Jet fuel system is critically dependent on the correct pressure. Just because the CPR is new doesn't mean it's functioning properly or that the pressures are correct during warm up.

it was much easier to list what i have NOT replaced. i did redo the line pressure o rings, i counted 2 of those .1mm control pressure washers. this would be the only thing that could possibly have for the mechanical side. what is going on here that is causing the FV to send back so much fuel.
 
Unplugging the O2 sensor should put the system into base mode. If the fuel system is doing anything strange with it unplugged, it's not the Lambda system. It's fuel pressure related.

Have you tried monitoring the dwell on the FV?
 
i did have to turn down the CO significantly for summer, otherwise it would be too rich at temp. for the ambient outside air
 
Check line pressure.

Check control pressure. Cold and warm. With gauge plugged in to check control pressure watch the frequency valve change control pressure for closed loop operation. Frequency valves can and do get sticky..... Esp when left for eons with the urine we are sold today as 'gasoline.' Control pressure is easily adjusted. Do it in open loop.

I assume that it has summer blend gasoline in it. Winter blend boils at lower temperature for fuel having been boiled out of fuel lines between fuel distributor and injectors for crappy hot starts. My Mercedes does this during the winter for embarrassing hot restarts.
 
FV is also new, the car is driven 40 miles every day. I'll try bumping up the CO in open loop to see if i can run okay in basic mode, and to see if it gives a bigger FV adjustment range now that there is a new temp probe (if it even has a connection anymore). previous attempts at this resulted in being too rich and poor performance with the old sensor
 
CO should be .8 volt at idle in open loop at the O2 sensor when warm.

Freq valve should lean it out from there for closed loop operation.

What do you get for a dwell reading from the Lambda?
 
CO should be .8 volt at idle in open loop at the O2 sensor when warm.

Freq valve should lean it out from there for closed loop operation.

What do you get for a dwell reading from the Lambda?

i do not have a dwell meter to do so, everything was set by how the car performed, drivng and testing.
 
Leaking cold start injector? Could be intermittently spitting in more gas than it can handle, which would be really noticeable before it's warmed up but not as much once it's up and running. Also have you tried opening up the idle adjust valve to see if a higher idle helps? I've got a '79 and it doesn't like to idle below 1100.
 
Programmable Pulsed injection solves all of this. :rofl:

Bet one can find a system that will happily run an odd-firing six.

Bet it can be done for less $$$ then you have in replacement parts.

Just saying.
 
true that, but that is perhaps for another day.

Today I turned the CO back up in open loop to what felt optimal, close to what it was before adjusting for summer to compensate for the bad thermo sensor, leaving the exhaust probe to add fuel rather than subtract. It's working lovely now, no brake stands, no power drops so far, today was only 85?f with heat index around 93. the mixture seems to be compensating correctly for the outside temps with the new sensor.

studying the system, it would be pretty easy to have a programmable ecu hooked into the stock harness for sure.
 
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