My 242, Now What Do I Do?

[B2fkb0]

Hello
Longtime p80 enthusiast and I bought an 83 242 tic auto from this Board (thanks Turbobricks, Slicknerd and Jonah111). How do I confirm its a group a car?
Here's pics of the beast;

Day one

Got hold of the owner from 2004 and he shared these


Note the coffin hood; the hood and grill were replaced (different paint on ds fender)



Trunk label



Engine bay tag (note someone painted the bay flat black...)



Is there a validation person or group that can verify the car? Any help is appreciated!
Dan

[Prime240]

There have been many discussions on this alreready, I think its not clear as to how identify a true car from the original 500
I there should be a vin sequence

AFAIK if the car came with a coffin hood it's not a Homologated car

Nice car nonetheless

[fortbrick]

As far as I know, that SO code being there is a good thing. I'm sure someone else will share

[SquareD]

Here's Dana's page on flathood verification.

[John V, outside agitator]

Originally Posted by Prime240

There have been many discussions on this alreready, I think its not clear as to how identify a true car from the original 500
I there should be a vin sequence

AFAIK if the car came with a coffin hood it's not a Homologated car

Nice car nonetheless

Too bad Group A required 5000 in one year..

Too bad there is so much mythologizing about this..Guys getting excited and hoping that its this and not that..

GroupA had strict limitations but also allowed serious alternate parts---as long as they were available and details, drawing and photo of the part was submitted.

Have you guys ever looked completely thru the 240 Homologation papers?

They all start from a stock ordinary run of the mill car...

[John V, outside agitator]

Originally Posted by SquareD

Here's Dana's page on flathood verification.

Wow, just looked at that site and what a collection of speculations , guessing and just flat wrong info...
Amazing..
But its on the Inter-net so it must be...........




oh yeah


Must be TRUE.

[SquareD]

So make your own page with correct info maybe?

[Prime240]

Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator

Too bad Group A required 5000 in one year..

My bad... I knew there was a 5 involved
Still as you said the "homo" cars are subject to a lot of speculation and unicorn wishes...

[John V, outside agitator]

Originally Posted by SquareD

So make your own page with correct info maybe?

Homologation papers are online at
http://www.pukema.com/240luokitus/volvo240luokitus.htm


FIA still has the rules for those dates, so that's just click clack.
http://www.fia.com/Regulations?searc...lltext=art+253

Click 1985

Thing is most people are consumers, and most people want to believe in all kinds of mysterious things and to be assured they are special....so their consumer choices makes them "unique"...

Why repeat the information which is there already?

OK why not?
Art. 255 - Specific Regulations for croup A
1) DEFINITION
Large scale series production cars.
2) HOMOLOGATION
Al least 5.000 identical examples of these cars must have been manufactured
in 12 consecutive months.
3) NUMBER OF SEATS
The touring cars must have 4 seats minimum.
4) WEIGHTS
Group A cars are subject to the following scale of minimum weights in
relation to their cubic capacity.
up te: 1,000 cm' : 620 kg
1,300 cm': 720 kg
1,600 cm' : 800 kg
2,000 cm' : 880 kg
2,500 cm' : 960 kg
3,000 cm': 1,035 kg
4,000 cm' : 1,185 kg
5,000 cm': 1,325 kg
over: 5,000 cm' : 1,400 kg
The weights are those of the cars in racing trim (according te the Generai
prescriptions Gr. N, A, B, Art. 2.2), but including the safety equipment defined
in Article 253.
The use of ballast is permitted in the conditions provided for under Article
2.3 of the general prescriptions for groups N, A, B.
5) MODIFICATIONS AND ADJUNCTIONS ALLOWED
GENERAL CONDITIONS
Irrespective of the parts for which the present article lays clown freedom of
modification, the original mechanical parts having undergone the normal
machining operations laid down by the manufacturer for series production
may be subjected te ail tuning opera ions through finishing, scraping but not
replacement. In other words provided that the origin of the series production
part may always be established, ils shape may be ground, balanced, adjusted,
reduced or modified through machining.
However, the modifications defined by the above paragraph are allowed on
condition that the weights and dimensions mentioned on the homologation
form are respected.
Adjunction of material : any adjunction of material or parts is forbidden
unless il is specificafly allowed by an Article in these regulations.
Nuts and bolts: throughout the car, any nut, boit, screw may be replaced by
another nul, boit, screw.
5.1) ENGINE
5.1.1) Cylinder-block - Cylinder-head
A rebore of 0.6 mm maximum is allowed in relation to the original bore
without Ibis leading to the capacity class limit being exceeded. The
resleeving of the engine is allowed within the same conditions as for reboringg
and the sleeve material may be modified.
Planing of the cylinderblock is allowed.
Cylinder head : planing authorized.
5.1.2) Volumetric ratio: free.
162 1 163

5.1.3) Cylinder head gasket: free.
5.1.4) Pistons: free as well as the piston-rings, gudgeon pins and their
securing mechanism.
5.1.5) Connecting rods, crankshaft : besides the modifications laid down in
the paragraph "General Conditions" above, the original crankshaft and connecting
rods may receive chemical or heat treatment different to the laid
down for series production parts.
5.1.6) Bearings: make and material are free; they must however retain their
original type and dimensions.
5.1.7) Flywheel: il may be modified in accordante with the above paragraph
"General Conditions" provided that the original flywheel may stl11 be
identified.
5.1.8) Fuel feed:
The original system, as specified on the homologation form (such as
K-Jetronic) must be retained.
Carbureitor(s) parts or fuel injection system parts regulating the quantity
of fuel reaching the engine may be changed, provided they have no influence
on air admission.
Anti-pollution elements may be removed provided that this does net lead
la an increase in the quantity of air admitted.
Provided chat the original air filter box is retained il may be modified (as
per Article 5 "General Conditions") and in particular, the filter may be removed,
and grates may be adde(j on the air inlet. An additional air filter may be
fitted. The air ducting devices situated in front of the air filter are free in the
engine compartment.
In the case of injection, it is possible to select a different air measuring
device, provided that this stili complies wiih Article 324 c on the homologation
form, Articles Cl to C5 being able to be modified in This way.
Fuel pump(s) are free provided that they are not installed in the cockpit.
Should this be an original lifting. the pump may remain in place, but must lue
well protected.
The accelerator linkage may be replaced or doubled by another wheiher or
not il is supplied by the manufacturer.
The number, the characteristics and the principle of operation of the heat
exchangers are free, provided that the original model was fitted with ai least
one exchanger.
5.1.9) Camshaft(s): free (except the number and number of bearings).
Timing is free.
With regard to the cylinder head orifices (inner side of the engine), in the
case of rotary engine, only those dimensions which have been entered on the
Homologation Form have to be respected.
5.110) Valves: the material and the shape of the valves are free, but their
characteristic dimensions (mentioned on the homologation form) must be
retained (including the respective angles of the valves axis). Maximum valve
lift must be maintained, with a tolerance of + 0.3 mm.
The cups, colters and guides (even ifthey do not exist as original parts)are
nof subject to any restrictions. Shims may be added under the springs.
5.1.11) Rockerarms and tappets: they may be modified ln accordante with
the paragraph "General Conditions" above.
5.1.121 Ignition : the ignition coLl(s), condenser, disfhibutor, interrupter and

[B2fkb0]

Originally Posted by SquareD

Here's Dana's page on flathood verification.

Thanks I went there and sifted through and the car has all the pieces (except the flat hood, but it shows evidence of a front repair and the coffin hood looks odd; no holes for hood insulation).

So my question remains, is there an authority who is considered qualified to decide. And to answer John V's thoughts; yep it is a car, so is a Honda, but what might set it apart? Well special order from factory is usually one. I think the history piece is cool and just want to know. It will influence my next steps. Who is the guru?

Also thanks John V for the links, I'll look through those.

Thanks!
Dan

[Tuff240]

Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator

Too bad Group A required 5000 in one year..

Too bad there is so much mythologizing about this..Guys getting excited and hoping that its this and not that..

GroupA had strict limitations but also allowed serious alternate parts---as long as they were available and details, drawing and photo of the part was submitted.

Have you guys ever looked completely thru the 240 Homologation papers?

They all start from a stock ordinary run of the mill car...

I pretty much agree with all of that ^

It does make them worth more than a regular 242t although the only difference is a different hood and grill. A good story always adds to collectible value and there are plenty of stories tied to this car, most of which are false.

Originally Posted by B2fkb0

So my question remains, is there an authority who is considered qualified to decide. And to answer John V's thoughts; yep it is a car, so is a Honda, but what might set it apart? Well special order from factory is usually one. I think the history piece is cool and just want to know. It will influence my next steps. Who is the guru?

There is no one that can unequivocally say "it is a homologation car". BUT, the only cars that had SO #'s were homologation cars, taxi's, cop cars, limousines, ambulances and cars like that. So being that your car is an 83 242 Turbo with an SO #, it is very likely that it is one of the 5000 homologation cars.

[B2fkb0]

Thank you Patrick! Interesting to find this information out. I am restoring the car and will be repainting it the original medium blue mettalic 2. I plan to do some simple performance upgrades to the motor and drivetrain. It came with very good GT seats and steering wheel, IPD bars front and rear, ipd stainless brake lines on all four, ipd tme exhaust and a catless 3" dp (rusty NR). Windshield is newer, tinted windows, zero rust (amazing undercoating job), upgraded rear bushings. The title was a bit to sort out (took over a month), but it's now titled in my name so that's good. No wheels/tires but a Heck of a car for $750!





I'm looking for driver side door and rear quarter belt trim!
Thanks
Dan

[amerbritcan]

That does sound like an awesome car, good score.

[B2fkb0]

Thanks! My friend Tom (Slicknerd) has helped a lot! The fuel system needed love;


The mice were in the turbo piping


Had to change the fuel line


Had a leaking injector line we replaced


Tom doing his magic!

[gashog]

Originally Posted by B2fkb0

Hello
Longtime p80 enthusiast and I bought an 83 242 tic auto from this Board (thanks Turbobricks, Slicknerd and Jonah111). How do I confirm its a group a car?
Here's pics of the beast;

Day one

Got hold of the owner from 2004 and he shared these


Note the coffin hood; the hood and grill were replaced (different paint on ds fender)



Trunk label



Engine bay tag (note someone painted the bay flat black...)



Is there a validation person or group that can verify the car? Any help is appreciated!
Dan

That's the one. Congrats
Wrong hood and not even a turbo grille. Also interior should be leather.
Right color and trim.

As for the homologation papers, I don't remember what page it's on but there was some fine print to the effect that a manufacturer could submit an evolution model with 500 units available on the condition that it would become a production car of 5000 units per year.
Volvo made 2500 in 1984 and all 1985 were intercooled but 4 door.
Get in touch with Dan Johnston at Volvo.
He's retired but still consults. He knows a little bit about what happened with all the missing documents and race parts.

[gashog]

Not to confuse people but here's mine

[Hotdoggin]

I'll send you a can of flat black spraypaint for your birthday.

[John V, outside agitator]

Originally Posted by gashog

That's the one. Congrats
Wrong hood and not even a turbo grille. Also interior should be leather.
Right color and trim.

As for the homologation papers, I don't remember what page it's on but there was some fine print to the effect that a manufacturer could submit an evolution model with 500 units available on the condition that it would become a production car of 5000 units per year.
Volvo made 2500 in 1984 and all 1985 were intercooled but 4 door.
Get in touch with Dan Johnston at Volvo.
He's retired but still consults. He knows a little bit about what happened with all the missing documents and race parts.

No there's nothing about rules in the homologation papers..I have several different cars Homologation papers and even the same car's papers for the Old Group 1, 2, 4 and A
Its just descriptions , dimensions, drawings and photos and date any change in the spec occured in Series production..

And you have the order of what had to happen wrong..FIRST you build 5000 cars, and whoever Volvo fills out the form in all the hundreds of points, they send it to the ASN (whatever the National sanctioning body is...used to be KAK or Kungliga Automobil Klubb, then SBF or Svenska Bilsport Förbundet++currently at Bergkällavägen 31, 192 79 Sollentuna, Sweden
Phone:+46 8 626 33 00) they stamp every page and then its sent to FIA which used to be in Paris, now in Geneve. Then anybody that wants to pay whatever it is can get the papers and know everything+++including gearbox tooth counts and clutch lining ID and OD and weight of flywheel, what your crank and rods weigh..
And they assign a number after their representatives checks production figures and sees cars..
2500？ 5000 or you don't get the papers..Without 5000 in one year --which can be 1 Aug XX to 1 Aug XX---No Group A, no papers saying OK for Group A, then no invoking the Sub-set of Group A rules specific to roadracing only (in those days of Group B being the premier class...) allowing for "evolution models" of another 10%.....with bigger-er-er stuff.

Remember plenty of things could be changed---gear ratios, final drive ratio, piston making process, so if they were going Group A, they didn't have to build EVERY car with speial anything---as long as those parts were allegedly available...


I think all this "is it or isn't it" is just decades of fapper fapping away without ever reading the rules---or seeing how a non-stodgy company like oh say Ford, plays the Homologation Paper game..

[RichGT]

So GTs are rarer!...

[gashog]

Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator

No there's nothing about rules in the homologation papers..I have several different cars Homologation papers and even the same car's papers for the Old Group 1, 2, 4 and A
Its just descriptions , dimensions, drawings and photos and date any change in the spec occured in Series production..

And you have the order of what had to happen wrong..FIRST you build 5000 cars, and whoever Volvo fills out the form in all the hundreds of points, they send it to the ASN (whatever the National sanctioning body is...used to be KAK or Kungliga Automobil Klubb, then SBF or Svenska Bilsport Förbundet++currently at Bergkällavägen 31, 192 79 Sollentuna, Sweden
Phone:+46 8 626 33 00) they stamp every page and then its sent to FIA which used to be in Paris, now in Geneve. Then anybody that wants to pay whatever it is can get the papers and know everything+++including gearbox tooth counts and clutch lining ID and OD and weight of flywheel, what your crank and rods weigh..
And they assign a number after their representatives checks production figures and sees cars..
2500？ 5000 or you don't get the papers..Without 5000 in one year --which can be 1 Aug XX to 1 Aug XX---No Group A, no papers saying OK for Group A, then no invoking the Sub-set of Group A rules specific to roadracing only (in those days of Group B being the premier class...) allowing for "evolution models" of another 10%.....with bigger-er-er stuff.

Remember plenty of things could be changed---gear ratios, final drive ratio, piston making process, so if they were going Group A, they didn't have to build EVERY car with speial anything---as long as those parts were allegedly available...


I think all this "is it or isn't it" is just decades of fapper fapping away without ever reading the rules---or seeing how a non-stodgy company like oh say Ford, plays the Homologation Paper game..

The last time we went through this, you or someone else posted, I think, a link to the Volvo papers and it was in there. With pictures even.

Also Volvo wasn't the only one who got low production cars through.
I read about BMW, Holden and Ford in the same boat as Volvo.

The 242 was homologated in 1982 anyway. Just not with intercooler so wouldn't the intercooled special order 242 qualify?

Edit: Here is what Wikipedia says https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_A
Also I think we should stop calling these cars group A or anything else racing. It's a special,order 242 with factory intercooler.....that's all.
There is absolutely no difference other then grille, hood and intercooler.

Also, I haven't been able to find any actual document that gives exact production numbers.
The PR department has a couple guys who were there and I talked with them.
They confirm that there is truth to the fairy tale and that there were definitely 500 intercooled cars.
Apparently Volvo employees were asked to throw away filing cabinets full of documents in the 1990s. One guy was pretty sure the documents relating to this were in that pile of paper.
He said that a lot of the filing cabinets and boxes were stored somewhere to keep them from being destroyed so, maybe they'll resurface some day.
I was told there were race parts in the US for some strange reason. Pallets of rear axles and boxes of turbos.
None were sold here and all went back to Sweden.
Edit: I went through a couple old emails I saved.
Allegedly those rear axles and turbos were not sent back. They were sold off as shred and melted down.

It's all stories though, without the paperwork.
I did see a document for 1984 though. I'll have to see if I can find it again but there were 2500 intercooled cars in 84.

[B2fkb0]

Originally Posted by gashog

Not to confuse people but here's mine

That's pretty! Just curious, what color code is on the strut plate? Mines 200-2. I had the paint mixed and it came out close to some of the blue that's visible under the trunk.
Thanks everyone for your help!
Dan

[gashog]

Originally Posted by B2fkb0

That's pretty! Just curious, what color code is on the strut plate? Mines 200-2. I had the paint mixed and it came out close to some of the blue that's visible under the trunk.
Thanks everyone for your help!
Dan

My plate is identical to yours.
The only difference is mine has an M47.

It's a lighter, greyer blue then the more common dark metallic blue.
My car is badly rusted. Drives good though. I ran it the other day, with 93 ultra so cheap right now.

[B2fkb0]

Thanks. The paint still shines on your car and it looks good. The rust can be fixed; have you owned it long?

[gashog]

6-7 years maybe.
It's a respray. A very good one.
Unfortunately it covers up some very ****ty Rust repair.

[B2fkb0]

Gotcha. I got lucky, the one I got has almost zero rust. Floors, trunk, cheeks, fenders and quarters are clean. A small amount below the rear window that I can clean, neutralize, fill and paint.
Thank you
Dan