My '78 242 L33 turbo build - Page 3

2turbotoys · 11-16-2018, 11:14 PM

Still collecting parts, quite a big pile now...the main issues now are the fuel system and the rear.

I want a new built 9" from Moser with a Wavetrac. Apparently no one makes mounting brackets for that, but it can't be that hard to figure out. The main issue is the width, it seems people use 55" but that would mean I need to use wheel spacers. If I make it wider the R brakes aren't in the right place anymore. I want to keep them and the stock 5x108 wheel bolt pattern.

The hangup with the fuel system is the stock rails are a non return style with no regulator. I want a return style system, so I need to change out the fuel rails. If I do that, I don't think the new fuel rails will fit on a different manifold, like an LS6 manifold, and I don't want to buy things twice...Change out manifold and rail now? The other aspect of changing the intake is my tune, its tuned for my custom cam, with the truck manifold. How much different will the tune have to be?

One other change I would like to make is the ugly valve covers, but haven't seen any for the COP setup this engine has. Might have to just live with those I guess.

Pointless pics for entertainment, my shop manager B asking for payment in treats in the last photo, my Flemish Giant bunny BB weighing in at about 20 lbs just hanging out

cosbySweater · 11-17-2018, 10:18 AM

Get a regulator and use the stock rail, and don't waste money on a different intake. Get a 8.8 and have it redrilled for a Volvo pattern. Personally I believe you're over thinking it. Even the "returnless" systems had fuel pressure regulators in the system. Also up until I wanna say 2001 the pickups had return style fuel systems with a regulator on the rail.

volvo? · 11-17-2018, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosbySweater

. Also up until I wanna say 2001 the pickups had return style fuel systems with a regulator on the rail.

2004 they changed to non return rails.

I have. A return style rail I would let go for $20+ shipping if you have want it.

2turbotoys · 11-17-2018, 09:23 PM

Pm'd about rail.

I may be overthinking it, I definitely don't want to under-think stuff and have to redo it later, I want overkill built into everything.
I'm pretty sure you don't "just redrill for Volvo bolt pattern" on the 8.8, you have to find one in good shape with the correct ratio in it, cut one side down, order the proper axle which could have the correct pattern so might as well order 2, buy and install the Wavetrac, make mounts, and that's just the stuff I've read, there is probably something I don't know yet.
8.8 is probably the way to go cost wise, and people put a lotta power through them, I guess I should do more research. My neighbor has what I think is an 8.8 he said I could have for free, I gotta figure out exactly what its is.

RvolvoR · 11-17-2018, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2turbotoys

Pm'd about rail.

I may be overthinking it, I definitely don't want to under-think stuff and have to redo it later, I want overkill built into everything.
I'm pretty sure you don't "just redrill for Volvo bolt pattern" on the 8.8, you have to find one in good shape with the correct ratio in it, cut one side down, order the proper axle which could have the correct pattern so might as well order 2, buy and install the Wavetrac, make mounts, and that's just the stuff I've read, there is probably something I don't know yet.
8.8 is probably the way to go cost wise, and people put a lotta power through them, I guess I should do more research. My neighbor has what I think is an 8.8 he said I could have for free, I gotta figure out exactly what its is.

you have read wayyyy too much and are way overthinking this. A lot of 2nd gen explorer 8.8s already have 3.73 gears in them and also have limited slips. You only have to shorten one side of the housing and to match the short side. Then you just use 2 short side axles. Then what you do is take your 2 short side axles and send them do Dutchman and have them filled and drilled to 5x108 for $130. Cut off stock brackets and weld them to the housing. Bolt that **** in.

2turbotoys · 11-17-2018, 09:49 PM

Haha, I think you are probably correct about reading too much and overthinking...thanks for bringing me back to earth guys! I'll start looking for an 8.8

Texas240 · 11-17-2018, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volvo?

2004 they changed to non return rails.

I have. A return style rail I would let go for $20+ shipping if you have want it.

correct. I happen to prefer my returnless rail over the return. Less clutter at the intake.

2turbotoys · 11-17-2018, 10:50 PM

No advantage to having a return line?

Texas240 · 11-17-2018, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2turbotoys

No advantage to having a return line?

it returns at the regulator. Look up C5 fuel regulator

M.H. Yount · 11-17-2018, 11:00 PM

"....return line?" Return from where? All the systems use back pressure regulators -- some have the regulator on/near the rail -- which means the 'return line' has to go from there all the way back to the tank. Some have what they call a "Corvette style" filter/regulator almost always mounted back by the tank. Which means the return line only has to run a foot or two from the regulator/filter back to the tank. A rose by any other name....

There are other downsides to the 9" rearend. It's heavier and will have more parasitic loss than a properly set up 8.8". Now, if you NEED the strength of the 9" to manage BIG torque outputs -- then you need it. But for what you're building, a properly set up 8.8" should work just fine. Saving you money, weight and some driveline loss. On mine, we cut the tube ends off the Dana 30/Volvo rearend and welded them on the Ford tubes. That allows the use of all the Volvo braking components in their stock locations. Moser made up a set of 31 spline axles in the proper length with 5x108mm spacing on the studs. There's a Timken axle bearing from an old Chrysler/Plymouth application (if memory serves) that fits the Moser axle and the Dana30 tube end. Allowed me to keep my wheels/brakes - which was the way I wanted to do it. Lots of ways to skin this cat.

I think that dog wants to eat that bunny.

2turbotoys · 11-17-2018, 11:12 PM

I meant a return from the fuel rail. I guess what you are saying is the aftermarket pressure regulator can return to the tank from itself, ok, makes sense. I've been looking at this from the viewpoint of the engines I know well, which have always run a line back from the rail.

The 8.8 will probably hold the torque I plan on making just fine, its not going to get into 4 digits.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help.

2turbotoys · 11-17-2018, 11:17 PM

Sigh...

volvo? · 11-18-2018, 01:40 PM

One thing I think you will want is a aftermarket regulator with a rising rate for your turbo. For example, if you run the nominal stock pressure of 59 psi and then run 15 lbs of boost. You only have 44psi or fuel pressure (59-15=44). With the aftermarket regulator (1:1 rate) you end up with 74psi (59+15=74). That is a much better way to build it. And you can still run the aftermarket regulator in "returnless" mode.

This thread has a nice picture on how to do it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ls1...0698%26amp%3D1

2turbotoys · 11-18-2018, 07:14 PM

Ah, cool, thanks for the link! And ya the engine bay doesn't need extra hoses haha.

So while looking for 8.8's, I found a 9" Ford that is already set up for a 240!!! Mounts, brakes, etc. It's seized up but its really cheap. For the price I think its a good option to rebuild it, saves me a lot of work. Opinions? A friend of mine who is a serious fanboy of old Fords said it's worth it even if I use are the axles and tubes, apparently its no big deal to change the center housing if needed.

2turbotoys · 11-18-2018, 09:48 PM

Heres the pics I got, factory tag is too rusty to read. But under $200...I can get the 3:89 ratio I want, has the right axles, mounts already welded on, etc, I found a semi local rebuilder on CL with decent prices, https://southjersey.craigslist.org/p...736123603.html
The huge advantage I see here is the "bolt on" tubes and the hubs are already in place, that saves me a lot of labor that I can't do myself.

2turbotoys · 11-18-2018, 09:51 PM

M.H., my dog likes to play with the bunny, but the bunny might be able to kick her ass lol, 20 lb rabbits have a hell of a kick, he got me once and it was bloody lol.

freevolvos · 11-18-2018, 10:53 PM

Those are easy to rebuild no shims to **** wit they have screws to move the carrier,pull the center section and see if it's a posi I bet the brakes are just froze up. I'd snag that thing!! The furd 8.8 is really a 12-bolt chevy inside it even uses the same bearings

2turbotoys · 11-18-2018, 11:01 PM

I'm working on grabbing it up, I'm mostly excited about it being almost "bolt in" + rebuild, I'm sure it doesnt have the ratio I want but who knows, seems like a sweet score! My contact on it said the same thing, brakes are probably locked up. Those are scrap metal anyway, along with whatever else is bolted to it.

thismachine13 · 11-18-2018, 11:17 PM

Great find for your project. I need some of your luck!

2turbotoys · 11-18-2018, 11:32 PM

Haha, definitely happy about that find, I must be living right lol, actually it I found it though a long string of events stemming for a Craiglist ad for my M46 transmission or my flat hood set up..I can't remember, so many pm's, so many emails...Idk anymore... I'm trying to make it happen this week

M.H. Yount · 11-18-2018, 11:33 PM

Did you measure rotor flange to flange?

2turbotoys · 11-18-2018, 11:38 PM

Not yet, I will before payment. Supposedly 240 ready though. I havent actually seen it in person yet, still working though a guy that knows a guy, but pretty confident in my 1st guy haha

Old Iron · 11-21-2018, 11:07 PM

How much is that rusty piece of scrap worth?

2turbotoys · 11-21-2018, 11:15 PM

Ah, it is rusty, but not scrap. Its worth the time setting pinion angles and mounting locations for the brackets. I thought it was worth the axle bearings being welded on also but turns out they belong to a Ford Grenada, which (for those who don't know) is a massive brown skid mark on automotive history, although I learned when I was younger that they can handle around 2 1/2 foot jump without self destructing.
I am probably replacing the center section with a nodular iron one (NHRA requirement), with 3.89 ratio and Wavetrac.
I was told around $200, going to pick it up this weekend.

2turbotoys · 11-21-2018, 11:17 PM

The axle housings on a 9" rear are removable, so they are what I really want, I'm trying to reduce fab time as much as possible.

I was totally sold on the 8.8 from the above posts, I even found one to buy, but this is almost bolt in...

11-16-2018, 11:14 PM	#51
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	Still collecting parts, quite a big pile now...the main issues now are the fuel system and the rear. I want a new built 9" from Moser with a Wavetrac. Apparently no one makes mounting brackets for that, but it can't be that hard to figure out. The main issue is the width, it seems people use 55" but that would mean I need to use wheel spacers. If I make it wider the R brakes aren't in the right place anymore. I want to keep them and the stock 5x108 wheel bolt pattern. The hangup with the fuel system is the stock rails are a non return style with no regulator. I want a return style system, so I need to change out the fuel rails. If I do that, I don't think the new fuel rails will fit on a different manifold, like an LS6 manifold, and I don't want to buy things twice...Change out manifold and rail now? The other aspect of changing the intake is my tune, its tuned for my custom cam, with the truck manifold. How much different will the tune have to be? One other change I would like to make is the ugly valve covers, but haven't seen any for the COP setup this engine has. Might have to just live with those I guess. Pointless pics for entertainment, my shop manager B asking for payment in treats in the last photo, my Flemish Giant bunny BB weighing in at about 20 lbs just hanging out __________________ Feedback thread https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=144924 1978 242, 5.3 L33 1979 242, MS, R brakes 2006 V50 T5 AWD @ 17 PSI

11-17-2018, 11:00 PM	#60
M.H. Yount Board Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC	"....return line?" Return from where? All the systems use back pressure regulators -- some have the regulator on/near the rail -- which means the 'return line' has to go from there all the way back to the tank. Some have what they call a "Corvette style" filter/regulator almost always mounted back by the tank. Which means the return line only has to run a foot or two from the regulator/filter back to the tank. A rose by any other name.... There are other downsides to the 9" rearend. It's heavier and will have more parasitic loss than a properly set up 8.8". Now, if you NEED the strength of the 9" to manage BIG torque outputs -- then you need it. But for what you're building, a properly set up 8.8" should work just fine. Saving you money, weight and some driveline loss. On mine, we cut the tube ends off the Dana 30/Volvo rearend and welded them on the Ford tubes. That allows the use of all the Volvo braking components in their stock locations. Moser made up a set of 31 spline axles in the proper length with 5x108mm spacing on the studs. There's a Timken axle bearing from an old Chrysler/Plymouth application (if memory serves) that fits the Moser axle and the Dana30 tube end. Allowed me to keep my wheels/brakes - which was the way I wanted to do it. Lots of ways to skin this cat. I think that dog wants to eat that bunny. __________________ '82 242 6.2L; '17 Mazda3; '16 CrossTrek

11-17-2018, 11:17 PM	#62
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	Sigh... Last edited by 2turbotoys; 11-17-2018 at 11:24 PM.. Reason: Going nuts figuring this out lol

11-18-2018, 01:40 PM	#63
volvo? That One Guy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oregon City, OR	One thing I think you will want is a aftermarket regulator with a rising rate for your turbo. For example, if you run the nominal stock pressure of 59 psi and then run 15 lbs of boost. You only have 44psi or fuel pressure (59-15=44). With the aftermarket regulator (1:1 rate) you end up with 74psi (59+15=74). That is a much better way to build it. And you can still run the aftermarket regulator in "returnless" mode. This thread has a nice picture on how to do it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ls1...0698%26amp%3D1 Last edited by volvo?; 11-18-2018 at 01:44 PM.. Reason: Added link

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11-17-2018, 09:23 PM	#54
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	Pm'd about rail. I may be overthinking it, I definitely don't want to under-think stuff and have to redo it later, I want overkill built into everything. I'm pretty sure you don't "just redrill for Volvo bolt pattern" on the 8.8, you have to find one in good shape with the correct ratio in it, cut one side down, order the proper axle which could have the correct pattern so might as well order 2, buy and install the Wavetrac, make mounts, and that's just the stuff I've read, there is probably something I don't know yet. 8.8 is probably the way to go cost wise, and people put a lotta power through them, I guess I should do more research. My neighbor has what I think is an 8.8 he said I could have for free, I gotta figure out exactly what its is.

11-17-2018, 09:49 PM	#56
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	Haha, I think you are probably correct about reading too much and overthinking...thanks for bringing me back to earth guys! I'll start looking for an 8.8

11-17-2018, 10:50 PM	#58
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	No advantage to having a return line?

11-17-2018, 11:12 PM	#61
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	I meant a return from the fuel rail. I guess what you are saying is the aftermarket pressure regulator can return to the tank from itself, ok, makes sense. I've been looking at this from the viewpoint of the engines I know well, which have always run a line back from the rail. The 8.8 will probably hold the torque I plan on making just fine, its not going to get into 4 digits. Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help.

11-18-2018, 07:14 PM	#64
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	Ah, cool, thanks for the link! And ya the engine bay doesn't need extra hoses haha. So while looking for 8.8's, I found a 9" Ford that is already set up for a 240!!! Mounts, brakes, etc. It's seized up but its really cheap. For the price I think its a good option to rebuild it, saves me a lot of work. Opinions? A friend of mine who is a serious fanboy of old Fords said it's worth it even if I use are the axles and tubes, apparently its no big deal to change the center housing if needed.

11-18-2018, 09:48 PM	#65
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	Heres the pics I got, factory tag is too rusty to read. But under $200...I can get the 3:89 ratio I want, has the right axles, mounts already welded on, etc, I found a semi local rebuilder on CL with decent prices, https://southjersey.craigslist.org/p...736123603.html The huge advantage I see here is the "bolt on" tubes and the hubs are already in place, that saves me a lot of labor that I can't do myself.

11-18-2018, 09:51 PM	#66
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	M.H., my dog likes to play with the bunny, but the bunny might be able to kick her ass lol, 20 lb rabbits have a hell of a kick, he got me once and it was bloody lol.

11-18-2018, 10:53 PM	#67
freevolvos Board Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: hillpoint	Those are easy to rebuild no shims to **** wit they have screws to move the carrier,pull the center section and see if it's a posi I bet the brakes are just froze up. I'd snag that thing!! The furd 8.8 is really a 12-bolt chevy inside it even uses the same bearings

11-18-2018, 11:01 PM	#68
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	I'm working on grabbing it up, I'm mostly excited about it being almost "bolt in" + rebuild, I'm sure it doesnt have the ratio I want but who knows, seems like a sweet score! My contact on it said the same thing, brakes are probably locked up. Those are scrap metal anyway, along with whatever else is bolted to it.

11-18-2018, 11:17 PM	#69
thismachine13 Board Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Kansas City	Great find for your project. I need some of your luck!

11-18-2018, 11:32 PM	#70
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	Haha, definitely happy about that find, I must be living right lol, actually it I found it though a long string of events stemming for a Craiglist ad for my M46 transmission or my flat hood set up..I can't remember, so many pm's, so many emails...Idk anymore... I'm trying to make it happen this week

11-18-2018, 11:33 PM	#71
M.H. Yount Board Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC	Did you measure rotor flange to flange?

11-18-2018, 11:38 PM	#72
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	Not yet, I will before payment. Supposedly 240 ready though. I havent actually seen it in person yet, still working though a guy that knows a guy, but pretty confident in my 1st guy haha

11-21-2018, 11:15 PM	#74
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	Ah, it is rusty, but not scrap. Its worth the time setting pinion angles and mounting locations for the brackets. I thought it was worth the axle bearings being welded on also but turns out they belong to a Ford Grenada, which (for those who don't know) is a massive brown skid mark on automotive history, although I learned when I was younger that they can handle around 2 1/2 foot jump without self destructing. I am probably replacing the center section with a nodular iron one (NHRA requirement), with 3.89 ratio and Wavetrac. I was told around $200, going to pick it up this weekend.

11-21-2018, 11:17 PM	#75
2turbotoys Salaminizer Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reading pa	The axle housings on a 9" rear are removable, so they are what I really want, I'm trying to reduce fab time as much as possible. I was totally sold on the 8.8 from the above posts, I even found one to buy, but this is almost bolt in...