Fuel/Spark tuning for LH 2.4/EZK with TunerPro!

[redblockpowered]

Originally Posted by Swedbrick

My next attempt will be creating a -967 bin file with the 951 b230f mapping, and working e-fan control (hopefully)

If you're looking for a B230F bin file with e-fan control, 935 or 933 (I don't remember which) should work fine, rather than editing the whole 967 bin.

[Swedbrick]

Originally Posted by redblockpowered

If you're looking for a B230F bin file with e-fan control, 935 or 933 (I don't remember which) should work fine, rather than editing the whole 967 bin.

Cool, thanks for the tip, I'll have a look at those!

[Swedbrick]

Alright so I had a look at the XDF files of the 935, the 946 and the 951 ecu once more (933 only offered the simple xdf so it got excluded) and made up the following:

-935 ecu, used with B230FB/FX 130hp engine, google image search: clutch fan
Injector constant 1: 128
Injector constant 4: 3889
Map:


-946 ecu, used with B230F/FD 115hp engine, google image search: clutch fan for F, e-fan for FD
Injector constant 1: 128
Injector constant 4: 3889
Map:


-951 ecu, used with b230F 115hp engine, google image search: clutch fan for F
Injector constant 1: 131
Injector constant 4: 3889
Map:


So from looking at the injector constants and the maps, I decided to go with the 951 ecu mapping since it has been working well with my 530 head, k-cam combo for a while (whilst also offering plenty of fuel as it appears across the table), in the bin file of the 946 ecu. I had a look through the table of both bin files and confirmed correct maf and warm-up tables (they were the same), and pasted the 951 map into the modified 946 bin, I also once more changed the injector constant 4 to 2378 to get the correct scaling for the 350cc ev6 injectors and used the checksum plugin to save before burning the chip.

The car started right up and I confirmed the e-fans working through the test terminal in mode 3, which fires the injectors, moves the IAC and checks both fan speeds. The car runs great and didn't throw codes, so I'm happy, if I get around to confirming afr on a dyno, I'll add that here as well

[klr142]

I can provide you with a newer XDF for the 933 BIN if wanted. It's what we use on the General Leif.

As far as e-fan control goes, what car are you using and what actual ECU?

The factory fuel map in the 935 looks closest to what I run in my 244, except wayyyy too much fuel at high load in the higher RPM columns. You can likely get it to lean out some by revving the engine to redline at each shift but keeping it at light load so it learns, but even easier is leaning it out to start with. Or turning Lamdba correction off and dialing it all in, but that definitely requires a wideband.

Speaking of which, if you reset the computers and run on the dyno, it'll run way rich up top, but if you don't reset your computers, it'll run better at high rpm as it learns... I picked up quite a bit of top end pull above 5,500rpm on my car when it was near stock with an A cam and learned, vs. unlearned.

[Swedbrick]

Originally Posted by klr142

I can provide you with a newer XDF for the 933 BIN if wanted. It's what we use on the General Leif.

Yes please do, I'd love to take a proper look at that one!

Originally Posted by klr142

As far as e-fan control goes, what car are you using and what actual ECU?

It's for my 740, the loom has been scratch built but it's basically a 940 turbo loom with the ecu's moved to the engine bay and the maf put on the other side for an NA application for now, it's also running buchka wasted spark. The actual ECU I'm now using is a 984 casing chipped with a 946 bin file, IIRC the ezk is a 169. I am using the 940 big radiator and e-fan setup with a custom relay setup, which I was able to control with the diagnostic mode on LH with the latest chip, so that should be working.

Originally Posted by klr142

The factory fuel map in the 935 looks closest to what I run in my 244, except wayyyy too much fuel at high load in the higher RPM columns. You can likely get it to lean out some by revving the engine to redline at each shift but keeping it at light load so it learns, but even easier is leaning it out to start with. Or turning Lamdba correction off and dialing it all in, but that definitely requires a wideband.

Speaking of which, if you reset the computers and run on the dyno, it'll run way rich up top, but if you don't reset your computers, it'll run better at high rpm as it learns... I picked up quite a bit of top end pull above 5,500rpm on my car when it was near stock with an A cam and learned, vs. unlearned.

Hmm alright, I picked the 951 mapping since it seems to be a bit richer = safer? overall, especially since I run this car hard on track. Any suggestions for approximate values for the higher rev range in the table, from what I was able to find your k13 cam is a bit hotter than the kg004 I'm currently running? I started with a b230k engine so my compression is already up at 1:10.3 so that should be in a similair ballpark.

[klr142]

Nice!

I will try to get on my tuning laptop and show you what I am running right now with my more basic setup(H cam, .032" off the head and .036" headgasket). It has the white-top 16V injectors so your injector scaling may need to change from what I have, but I'll share it later along with the later 933 XDF!

Also something to keep in mind when comparing these maps between the different BINs, the injector constant 1 is changed between them, so that accounts for some of the difference in the main fuel maps. That being said, I haven't tried running a stock 935 and didn't even know about the 946 bins in my 951 or 933 ECUs yet to see how they perform. I just know that with Lamdba off and watching the wideband, I have a map that's more similar to the 935's.

[klr142]

As promised, here's the 933 XDF v.50 attached amongst a bunch of other stuff I'm going to add to my NA tuning how-to thread. I also included my 951 BIN and notes from it stating what the setup is for fun if you'd like to see it.

[Swedbrick]

Awesome thank you! I'll take a look through it in the weekend to make a new updated bin file!

[klr142]

You're welcome!

[esmth]

Thanks klr142!! got a chance to really look thru this.
For 240 NA use, is it worth playing around with the 5xx series? Or would you stick with 9xx series?
I wanted to try out the 595 bin on my 561 computer and see how it runs. I have personally had good experience with 933 bin on my 937 computer, its what i've been running the past year or so.

Now that I have a good suspension setup, i'll surely dive into this again.

[klr142]

You're welcome! I really liked the way my car drove when I had the 561 in it, but they tend to fail more often and I don't know where mine went... I haven't actually looked at the 595 bin to see what it looks like in comparison to the normal stuff, it was just something I came across when I was looking for some more info on the jetronic website yesterday. Sadly I couldn't find everything I was looking for and couldn't actually open the website on my tuning PC laptop(managed to get to it on my Mac, though??).

[Bom]

Hi klr142,

I am not quite clear about the Ortrich. Is it a programmable ECU that piggyback to car ECU that tuner can tune data specifically to that particular car which is better than changing chip since chip is kind of more mass product that does not fine tune to any specific car? If my understanding is correct, it is a piggyback ECU likes HKS F-CON or unichip. Am I correct?

Thank you,

[klr142]

Hello Bom,
The Ostrich is a small box that has a cable that plugs into your existing ECU where the factory chip would be. It’s a chip emulator, so you can change whatever the effective “chip” is, or the chip’s contents through a USB cable hooked to your computer.

[EFbI4]

Hi guys.
I planning now some engine tuning: Holset HX30W, log style custom manifold, 4" outlet, another intercooler, 630 cc injectors, 531 ported head with 40 mm exhaust valves, higher CR ~10.0, fuel 93. Purpose is 350 engine HP on not too high boost pressure and fastest spool.
I'm very interested to stay on stock ECU, I have a little experience in tuning chips, but... As I see - I must use wideband lambda for checking my AFR, it's okay. But I can't understand how I'll must tuning fuel maps with TunerPro and Ostrich.
I really enjoyed reading last 30 pages of this thread and that's what I think now.

1. I must disable lambda-regulation
2. I must disable fuel trim for long-term adaptation
3. I must adjust IC4 for ~1600
4. Connect Ostrich and use address hit tracing for finding values and changing it, in same time looking for AFR.

Okay.
Questions.
1. Can I compare on map/graph RPM/AFR? Or I can modify values just manually, when I see something on WBO screen?
2. AFR on 4000 RPM on idle and 4000 RPM on full boost be not same, wright? How I must adjust values in TunerPro for that's RPM? On full boost from 3k to 5k RPM my engine almost rolls very quick and I phisically can't read which AFR I have. And don't forget about some lag, which have wideband controller... That's maybe extension of my first question, but it is.
3. Which AFR should be on another RPM? I google that picture, but without AFR graph in TunerPro I can't adjust values in bin. Again ))



4. Let's imagine all works with LH is done. Ooookay - now it's time for EZK! Or maybe tune EZK first? When I advanced or retarded timing AFR should be change, after EZK again LH? Or how?

What do you think, guys?

[Swedbrick]

Originally Posted by EFbI4

1. I must disable lambda-regulation
2. I must disable fuel trim for long-term adaptation
3. I must adjust IC4 for ~1600
4. Connect Ostrich and use address hit tracing for finding values and changing it, in same time looking for AFR.

This seems about right for the basic tuning, I understood from klr142 that he observed map location lookup changes when the IC4 was changed, which I still have to confirm since I have yet to get an ostrich. So proceed with care and a wideband!

IC4 for a standard b230ft map is 2443, with 334cc injectors, so for those you would have to scale to IC4 of roughly 1300 if you would scale linearly. Beware of cheap chinese injectors they rarely flow consistently across sets and are commonly not able to flow the full amount, so make sure to check if they are genuine

Tracing on an ostrich is not real time necessarily, it a trick with read requests, which is explained here, so a dyno would be best to allow for stabilization of your values before changing stuff:
http://support.moates.net/data-trace-emulators/

Originally Posted by EFbI4

Questions.
1. Can I compare on map/graph RPM/AFR? Or I can modify values just manually, when I see something on WBO screen?
2. AFR on 4000 RPM on idle and 4000 RPM on full boost be not same, wright? How I must adjust values in TunerPro for that's RPM? On full boost from 3k to 5k RPM my engine almost rolls very quick and I phisically can't read which AFR I have. And don't forget about some lag, which have wideband controller... That's maybe extension of my first question, but it is.
3. Which AFR should be on another RPM? I google that picture, but without AFR graph in TunerPro I can't adjust values in bin. Again ))



4. Let's imagine all works with LH is done. Ooookay - now it's time for EZK! Or maybe tune EZK first? When I advanced or retarded timing AFR should be change, after EZK again LH? Or how?

To answer the first two questions as far as I'm qualified, the vertical axis of the fuel tables is calculated load = airflow, knock, throttle sensor and temperature combined, so basically like MAP/VE in other ecu's, the horizontal axis is RPM.

LH only has narrowband detection, and skips that after a certain threshold, basically 2 bits to the ecu from the narrowband controller saying lean, stoic or rich for the idle control. So you are not really able to use afr above this threshold, it's mostly there for emissions/low rpm.

For the third question, at low load you can usually go leaner = lower values in the tabel, at high loads = turbo, go a bit richer. There is no real way to relate the values to afr, they are just a measure of fuel at a certain RPM and airflow measurement, so you'll have to tune by changing the values, observing and moving on. Also take into consideration that modern turbo's spool quick and LH cannot react as quickly as modern ecu's so keep it rich to stay out of trouble since it might add the accel enrich a bit late.

For the fourth question, If you are messing with RPM, change both, as for setting timing, have a look at HP academy, they have a great free tutorial on how to setup timing after a base tune if I recall.

I hope this helps a bit, there are more experienced people on this forum, so this was mostly distilled from what I've read up until now

[EFbI4]

It's already dead thread? I resurrect it!
Few weeks ago I burn to chip new EZK firmware with 6 advanced degree and now... awesome. I'm impressed how conservate is stock firmware. Very very big difference.
And now I'm already ready for WBO2 and Ostrich tuning...

[esmth]

Originally Posted by EFbI4

It's already dead thread? I resurrect it!
Few weeks ago I burn to chip new EZK firmware with 6 advanced degree and now... awesome. I'm impressed how conservate is stock firmware. Very very big difference.
And now I'm already ready for WBO2 and Ostrich tuning...

Nice!
I stalked your profile and saw B230GK engine, is that carbeurated, with the bosch ezk as the ignition system? What part number does the box have? Could you post a dump of the firmware?

Thanks! I'm super curious about those ignition systems we in the USA never got!

I was informed b230gk is catless low pressure turbo. What computers does your car have?

[Swedbrick]

Originally Posted by Swedbrick

The actual ECU I'm now using is a 984 casing chipped with a 946 bin file, IIRC the ezk is a 169. I am using the 940 big radiator and e-fan setup with a custom relay setup, which I was able to control with the diagnostic mode on LH with the latest chip, so that should be working.

To update on this as well, since the revival reminded me, the e-fan does now work! It took a really warm day, but it works at both speeds on the stock sensed thresholds

[redblockpowered]

Raising all the temp thresholds by 10 (in the bin, lowers it in temperature) on a 240 with the fan wired as it is in the 940 made the electric fan kick on and off at about the middle of the stock temp gauge with the faker board bypassed. As is it didn't come on until temps were very high (on the gauge, the IR thermometer died unfortunately). I guess this means electric fan cars run hotter by default? I measured the cylinder head temp of my 944 turbo (at idle after a long drive, fan on) at about 100*C both front and rear. Not sure what it is on a stock 240 but would be curious to know considering the difference in fan, cooling system pressure, radiator, and water pump pulley.

[EFbI4]

Originally Posted by esmth

Nice!
I stalked your profile and saw B230GK engine, is that carbeurated, with the bosch ezk as the ignition system? What part number does the box have? Could you post a dump of the firmware?

Thanks! I'm super curious about those ignition systems we in the USA never got!

I was informed b230gk is catless low pressure turbo. What computers does your car have?

937 and gold EZK.

I'm already run on ugly ignition settings and can't wait to live tune!

[sUbZeRo_DE]

Hey guys,

i have a serious Problem,

i am running an B230FB with an 951 ECU basically with the head shaved 1,5mm, H cam, and 315cc Bosch EV6 Injectors. I cant get my Head around Programming... The car has a Wideband installed and i burned a lot of EEPROMs but none seems to work... Idle and low Load is pig rich, WoT is mäh...
I tried several things:
Tinkering with Inj Const#4 to 2443, gives such low load, that WoT Lambda shutoff does not engage
Setting Inj Const #1 to the appropriate Value gives some good WoT Values, and Lambda Shutoff is working

BUT

on both Setups, Idle is Rich as f**k 10:1 or so, warm start does not work, too much Fuel
Rough running in low load, bad idle
I tried compentsating with the temp enrich afterstart, cranking values etc but nothing seems to work...
Sadly i do not have an Ostrich... I also tried klr142´s map he posted, but that does not to work also....

The car was fitted with an Cold Start Valve, which is gone now, because i used the Inlet Manifold of the FB Engine, which does not have the port for that, and i noticed that after 20 hours of porting the Manifold.... But that should not be an issue.

Exhaust Manifold is still Stock, witch stock downpipe, a 200cpsi Cat and 2,5" Catback exhaust.

I am just smashing my head, any advice is highly appreiciated.

Greetings from DE =)

[esmth]

I did what you are doing for way too long, being burning and re burning eproms instead of getting an ostrich. Honestly just get one, it's really not worth "tuning" lh without one.

[mrjaybeeze]

Hi


Start with a stock fresh binary (untouched).
Do NOT change constant #4 (NA engines should always keep constant #4 at stock)
Disable both long and short time lambda routines.
For now do not touch any other settings/maps.

Adjust constant #1 until car drives and idles reasonably well with sensible lambda WB values.
When an acceptable #1 constant has been obtained you can leave this alone and start adjusting main fuelmap to your desires.
When main fuelmap is OK you can if needed adjust other parameters/maps


YS
JB

[sUbZeRo_DE]

Thank you!
I will do so, but unfortunately i have to enable lambda control at some Point due to emissions Regulations in Germany. But i will see how it does.

Thanks a lot!

[EFbI4]

Originally Posted by sUbZeRo_DE

Thank you!
I will do so, but unfortunately i have to enable lambda control at some Point due to emissions Regulations in Germany. But i will see how it does.

Thanks a lot!

Emission control wait for you only on TUV test or am I wrong?