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012 MAF/AMM vs homemade ~3" one with 016 guts

Lotta good info, thanks. I have an 012 amm coming from a t-bricker, and will probably home-make a larger 016 at some point as well, since that's free.
 
Of course! Your concern is boundary layer variations.



I have doubt that this will work as you'll likely end up with the base of the nacelle protruding into the air flow (the 016 nacelle and vanes aren't as long as the 025). Yes, you will wind up with the housing centered, but also create more turbulence down stream of the base and more pressure upstream.

I'm willing to bet that those vanes protruding into the air stream at either side of the nacelle provide cooling and smooth and direct airflow through that region of the stream. Which is prolly why it worked so well for me.


yes i would bet you are right , i know off center richens the mixture , i have mine done like this i said i actually lenghtened the intake side of my remade maf in an attempt to stabalise the air before it meets the element , i use mine with 440cc injectors on b230ft with lh2.4 with great results , i actually now have it on my 1992 3.0 960 and have sold the 012 it came with , works great .
 
Haven't gotten my 012 yet (any day) but I made my own from an 016 and a cheap plastic charge pipe. It's sealed with foam backer rod, and held together with a strap. I'll epoxy it now that I know it works great. Car now runs great/strong with rsi stage 1 cam, 42 lb injectors and tlao chips. Going to a ported mani/15g/ ported exit/3" downpipe in the next couple of weeks, as well as npr intercooler. I expect dramatic results...and with the new downpipe will finally be able to measure my afr.
 
I understand the concept of using a larger 3" maf, which will scale the airflow signal downwards across the board. This lowered airflow signal will lead to shorter calculated injector pulse widths in the computer. So you run proportionally larger injectors that deliver similar fuel amounts to the original setup but with new shorter pulse widths. The result is that you get more headroom before reaching the 5v maximum from the MAF sensor, more free flowing intake path, more fuel for more power etc... But I have a question.

The ECU doesn't understand manifold pressure, only load based on rpm and airflow sensor voltage. When the turbo begins to spool and you make positive manifold pressure you will want your air:fuel ratios to drop from 14.7 that works for cruise to 12:1 that is better for acceleration and high load. It seems to me that this transition would be affected by the large MAF. Do the air fuel ratios hang at 14.5-15 under light boost?
 
The ECU doesn't understand manifold pressure, only load based on rpm and airflow sensor voltage. ... It seems to me that this transition would be affected by the large MAF.

This is what I said earlier and was my experience from running a 016 in 3" pipe.

The larger AMM does work! One way you'll notice is that a 016 3" AMM will go Open Loop later then the OE sizes 016 setup.

However....,

Do the air fuel ratios hang at 14.5-15 under light boost?

I can't tell you exactly what the ratios were as I was using a dump narrow band. But I will say that what it considers light load is increased. If I'm remembering correctly, I was at least 7psi before it went open loop. This is proof positive that the off center 016 element is providing a significant skew.

All that said, it's still imperative that you match the injector size to all manner of different things in this case. NOT JUST THE MAF DIAMETER. On my setup, which was an M cam, OE manifolds, a 3" exhaust fed from the OE dp, and a 15g (up to 17psi) using a smaller TD04 turbine wheel, the VE of the system (intake, engine, exhaust) as a whole wasn't great enough to justify the 42lb hour injectors.
 
one would be better served tuning and tweaking the ecu for the new MAF(size) rather than playing a guessing game with injectors.
 
I agree with you entirely. I would find it annoying to have tip in lean spots, or reaching 7psi before going open loop. Is this a parameter that the LH2.4 tuners have access to? It seems to me that maf/injector changes should be paired with some tuning changes, whatever they look like in the LH world.

one would be better served tuning and tweaking the ecu for the new MAF(size) rather than playing a guessing game with injectors.
 
If you couldn't tune the MAF or injectors, there would be little point to tuning at all because you could only tune a stock setup...

So in other words, yes. I'm working on a few for various tb'ers right now, most with 012 mafs, one with an 016 maf in a 3" tube.
 
I remember Bepee liked to put the 012 AMM map in other ECU bins like the 937 back when he was messing with tuning LH. If I remember correctly the thinking was the same, if you using 3 inch AMM, you should have 3 inch AMM map in your bin. Seems easy enough.
 
I agree with you entirely. I would find it annoying to have tip in lean spots, or reaching 7psi before going open loop. Is this a parameter that the LH2.4 tuners have access to? It seems to me that maf/injector changes should be paired with some tuning changes, whatever they look like in the LH world.

I didn't encounter any using the 016-in-3"-pipe stuff. Not until I started messing with inline potentiometers (016 and 012 alike).

That said, closed loop at 7+ psi doesn't really sound good. :lol:

I don't miss those days.
 
Yeah, that's still trying to run stoich at stock boost levels... a completely stock system won't even try to kill your motor that hard.

Edit: Some insight after speaking with another tb'er. Before we scaled for the 012 MAF he was using, he was getting to roughly 5 psi before enrichment. After scaling for the 012 maf, and specifying the MAF value at which to leave closed loop, enrichment at positive pressure.
 
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what is the difference with this reman bosch 016 maf with a second measuring instrument i think its a hot film sensor. any way im gonna try it out into 012 housing vs a stock 012 im running currently.
 
Volvo has actually made it quite easy to upgrade to a 012 MAF since they where used on the 204FT engine with the 950 binary.
Basically it is just a matter of copy+paste to put in the linearisation map and the two belonging constants and VOILA you have a "stock" 012 binary.

YS
Jens B
 
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