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Old 09-19-2018, 08:29 PM   #1
MSGGrunt
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Default Help Bleeding Brakes.

I have read but am still looking for advice... I replaced the front rotors and calipers and can't get the pressure to come up. I only opened the front hoses so does that mean I don't have to worry about air/bleeding the rear? I clamped off the hoses when I changed the calipers, bolted everything back up and used a Motive Power bleeder at 20 pounds. I cracked the bleeders, air sputter out and then what I believe was air free fluid. Problem is, the brake pedal still goes straight to the floor with no resistance.

Advice as I need the car back on the road.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:47 PM   #2
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Keep bleeding... (you may have to do all four)
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:11 PM   #3
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Did you check to see if the calipers were remanufactured correctly?
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:55 AM   #4
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I did not check, but this will be the first thing I do tonight. I have read that the Volvo system can be a test of ones patience. My worries were that I did something to damage the booster. Unfortunately I can't put the old ones back on as I turned those in to get my core charge back.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:22 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MSGGrunt View Post
Problem is, the brake pedal still goes straight to the floor with no resistance.
If you have never replaced the master cylinder and the pedal went to the floor there is a good chance that the master is shot now. Once they are out of normal operating range there may be rust in the bore that causes the seals to get damaged.

Good luck! 240 brakes are a nightmare.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:38 AM   #6
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Did you open the top bleeders of the front calipers first?

[Air rises]
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how psi stock cna support?

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Old 09-20-2018, 11:12 AM   #7
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follow the bleeding procedure
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:15 AM   #8
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follow the bleeding procedure


After you're sure the fronts are completely purged of air.
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Old 09-20-2018, 01:00 PM   #9
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Try gravity bleeding if you're having trouble getting the air out of the system. Use a clear hose so you can see the air bubbles and make sure the master cylinder reservoir doesn't go dry. It takes some time so be patient.
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:28 PM   #10
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I use a vac bleeder. Pass large amounts of fluid thru. Did you mess up and allow all the fluid drain out? I lightly clamp the hoses so **** like this doesn't happen from fluid loss.
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:50 PM   #11
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He's got a Motive bleeder. That thing is five times better than the best Mityvac.

In fact, I've grown to disdain vacuum bleeders so badly now, I only use them on brakes to get a good gravity bleed going.

And, trust me... We do an inordinate amount of brake work where I work.

Which reminds me, I need an adapter for my Motive bleeder to bleed the brakes on the Saturn (because, suckage).
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:33 PM   #12
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I don't run my motive bleeder at 20psi though. That is the zone where you start making the fluid froth and it becomes very hard to bleed the brakes. Use no more than 15psi and keep the bleeder between 12-15 when bleeding.

Start at the front and do all the sections of the front calipers. After you get the fluid going in the front calipers proceed with the normal brake bleeding procedure. Like what the guys mention above. I usually only have to go around twice with doing this. Don't forget the small hammer to lightly tap on the rear pressure regulators and the calipers to get any stuck air bubbles.
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:38 PM   #13
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I use a shop air powered vac bleeder. I used to use a helper, but the person usually just sat there in the air and played with their cellphone.
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:46 PM   #14
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I use a shop air powered vac bleeder.
We have those too.

But we tossed the small brake only ones in lieu of the larger volume bleeders that are actually useful to remove ATF before a transmission job (no drain plug on like 98% of them).
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:59 PM   #15
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I use the large shop air powered mityvac unit. I don't even mess around with the flush machines other techs just fill up with used fluid and leave it there for somebody else to drain. I have my own $100 bleeder that has paid for itself times over. No need to find a helper either.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:01 PM   #16
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I used to use the mityvac and had a couple of versions. A useful tool for other testing but not as good at pushing that brake juice out with pressure in my experience.

Those large capacity vacuum units though. They are really handy as the fiend points out above. I recall Griots Garage was bragging that their units can remove more oil than draining the engine the usual way.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:05 PM   #17
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Oh yeah pressure certainly helps a lot. Just finding the fittings for various cars is the frustrating part. If you work on the same model cars its no big deal, but at independent shops that work on everythig, you wont always have the fittings. Every car has similar bleeder nips.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:11 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
I don't even mess around with the flush machines other techs just fill up with used fluid and leave it there for somebody else to drain.


We use this

It's like a (4gal) Motive bleeder that runs on shop air.

Throw down a drain pan and bleed...

Last edited by swedefiend; 09-20-2018 at 08:38 PM..
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:14 PM   #19
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Once a few years ago. A lady asked me to work on her 66 Rolls. It was the small one for that year. Beautiful all original nice patina blue car. My jacks at home wouldn't even pick up the car. She wanted all the brake lines and hoses for the hydraulic suspension replaced.

I stopped counting at twelve flex hoses and the front wheels had twin calipers from the factory. Very cool yet was going to be a nightmare for a home diy person so I let that one pass. The Rolls specialty shop wanted $4k for the job like ten years ago.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
Oh yeah pressure certainly helps a lot. Just finding the fittings for various cars is the frustrating part. If you work on the same model cars its no big deal, but at independent shops that work on everythig, you wont always have the fittings. Every car has similar bleeder nips.
Ok. Agreed there. Sorry about your luck

We certainly don't have that problem. Our fleet is *nearly* homogeneous.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
Once a few years ago. A lady asked me to work on her 66 Rolls. It was the small one for that year. Beautiful all original nice patina blue car. My jacks at home wouldn't even pick up the car. She wanted all the brake lines and hoses for the hydraulic suspension replaced.

I stopped counting at twelve flex hoses and the front wheels had twin calipers from the factory. Very cool yet was going to be a nightmare for a home diy person so I let that one pass. The Rolls specialty shop wanted $4k for the job like ten years ago.
And then there's that.

The greatest risk in pressure bleeding is not having appropriate respect for the pressure.

Utmost care has to be exercised to avoid spraying corrosive fluid all over everything.

With that... I'm out.

Good luck OP

Last edited by swedefiend; 09-20-2018 at 05:36 PM..
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:51 PM   #22
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You need to bleed all four calipers.

I just replaced all four calipers this past Sunday.

I start out with the Motive bleeder only. Go once around - all eight bleeder screws.

I go around again with the Motive unit still hooked up - but also use my MightyVac. Just the handheld version. The combination of the two really gets all the air out of the system very effectively.

12-15 psi on the Motive unit is minimum for me to push past the snubbers for the rear brakes by itself.

Using the MightyVac bumps the absolute differential pressure up to around 25 psi.

The combination of the two machines really seems to make a difference.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:30 PM   #23
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We have a machine that pushes into the master and then also pulls out from each bleeder. Meh, people don't empty it so I don't use it. However, it works very well.
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:53 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rusty_ratchet View Post
Did you check to see if the calipers were remanufactured correctly?
^ This first. I bought a pair of rebuilt front calipers from AutoZone, yeah I know Cardone junk, but I knew enough to check for mating dimples on the calipers. Sure enough both calipers were assembled wrong. The guy behind the counter couldn't understand why I wouldn't take them. Had to give him a lesson.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:33 AM   #25
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I fixed the issue. I sold the car. Was planning on selling it anyway, but wanted to do it with good working brakes. The new owner is an enthusiast and the non working brakes worked to a couple of hundred bucks in his favor.

At least now I have a better understanding of the braking system on these cars.
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