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Old 11-17-2020, 07:11 PM   #1
The_Geoffrey
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Default TD04-19T alternatives - 300-400bhp target

As the title suggests, looking at alternatives to the TD04-19T.

Will be going on a B230FT and the target is 300-400bhp.

The biggest advantage to the Mitsu is itís a direct bolt on to my manifold, however Iím happy to have adapters made up if I feel itís worth it.
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Old 11-17-2020, 07:20 PM   #2
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probably depends on your budget. I ran 19t for quite a while and liked it. But with my new motor Im running a Gtx3067r on a header. I wanted to run a Evo turbo but never got around to the manifold for it.
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Old 11-17-2020, 07:50 PM   #3
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Truthfully I don’t want to spend huge amounts of money, somewhere in the £4-600 area.
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Old 11-17-2020, 07:51 PM   #4
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I don't see making 300 on a 19T - they are pretty much at their limit on T5's around that. Too small of a hot side, unless you find the later angle flange used on the 2000R . Good rod-bender. Maybe it doesn't build so quick on the 4cyl, 8valve....
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Old 11-18-2020, 03:12 AM   #5
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V8... Mine makes an easy 350+HP.
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:49 AM   #6
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V8... Mine makes an easy 350+HP.
Yeahbut duz it go psshht when you let off the go pedal?
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:48 AM   #7
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go with a small t3 variant.. the old school t3/t4 50trim will make 400hp and is fairly cheap..
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Old 11-18-2020, 11:31 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by lookforjoe View Post
I don't see making 300 on a 19T - they are pretty much at their limit on T5's around that. Too small of a hot side, unless you find the later angle flange used on the 2000R . Good rod-bender. Maybe it doesn't build so quick on the 4cyl, 8valve....
What makes you say that, seems to be a common choice for people wanting that power, my understanding is the T5 came with a 16T??


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go with a small t3 variant.. the old school t3/t4 50trim will make 400hp and is fairly cheap..
I have a T3 that came off of a Sierra Cosworth which Iím using on another project, donít mind throwing it on as long as it performs, canít seem to find any compressor maps for it!
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Old 11-18-2020, 11:43 AM   #9
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I maxed out a 19T on my b230F on a dyno tuning session, 268 wheel, 296 lb/ft of torque @ 24 psi. power went down with higher boost.

If you want to run around 220-240 wheel, its a decent match. Beyond that you should go bigger. EFR all day long.
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Old 11-18-2020, 12:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
I maxed out a 19T on my b230F on a dyno tuning session, 268 wheel, 296 lb/ft of torque @ 24 psi. power went down with higher boost.

If you want to run around 220-240 wheel, its a decent match. Beyond that you should go bigger. EFR all day long.
I thought the numbers were better than that, proof is in the pudding I suppose!

What was it making at the crank? And what was it like to drive?
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Old 11-18-2020, 02:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by The_Geoffrey View Post
I thought the numbers were better than that, proof is in the pudding I suppose!

What was it making at the crank? And what was it like to drive?
The car felt great. tons of torque. great midrange, not so wonderful up top but I wasn't expecting a ton up there.

It was fast enough to be fun but thats highly subjective.

Crank numbers are irrelevant unless you have an engine dyno for tuning

Im sure I could get a higher peak # if I went with a bigger cam and bigger valves but it was well matched to what I wanted the car to be.
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
The car felt great. tons of torque. great midrange, not so wonderful up top but I wasn't expecting a ton up there.

It was fast enough to be fun but thats highly subjective.

Crank numbers are irrelevant unless you have an engine dyno for tuning

Im sure I could get a higher peak # if I went with a bigger cam and bigger valves but it was well matched to what I wanted the car to be.
Well lets put it this way, I had a 945 B230 totally stock with MBC set at 12 psi and thought that was a laugh so 250-300 at the wheels will probably cause a trouser accident.

What are you running now? I’m looking at holset as they seem great value and are in budget!

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Old 11-19-2020, 04:10 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by The_Geoffrey View Post
What makes you say that, seems to be a common choice for people wanting that power, my understanding is the T5 came with a 16T??




I have a T3 that came off of a Sierra Cosworth which Iím using on another project, donít mind throwing it on as long as it performs, canít seem to find any compressor maps for it!
Sierra Cosworth 4x4 compressor map
https://stealth316.3sg.org/images/t3-60trim-cfm.gif

2wd Cossies had a .55 trim

Using this turbo (4x4) since 8 years. Love it. Would just change to Evo 16G6 if I could find a manifold...
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:24 AM   #14
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What about Holset hx35?
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Old 11-19-2020, 10:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Geoffrey View Post
I thought the numbers were better than that, proof is in the pudding I suppose!

What was it making at the crank? And what was it like to drive?
16T and 20 psi made about 260 hp but it was limited by knock and gasoline. We tried RE85 and it really helped a lot. 296 hp
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Old 11-19-2020, 02:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Triebwerk View Post
Sierra Cosworth 4x4 compressor map
https://stealth316.3sg.org/images/t3-60trim-cfm.gif

2wd Cossies had a .55 trim

Using this turbo (4x4) since 8 years. Love it. Would just change to Evo 16G6 if I could find a manifold...
Mine is off of a 2WD Sierra Saphire Cosworth so probably not big enough.

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Originally Posted by Jussi Alanko View Post
What about Holset hx35?
Iíve had a look at these and they look great value for money and seem to get great reviews, my only concern is the twin scroll exhaust housing, not sure how that would fair bolted onto a stock 90+ manifold.

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16T and 20 psi made about 260 hp but it was limited by knock and gasoline. We tried RE85 and it really helped a lot. 296 hp
Originally my goal was 250bhp at the wheels on standard internal with all other supporting mods. Now Iím chasing 350bhp and Iíve been told 19T isnít big enough. Iíd be more than happy at 250bhp but if I want to go for more then it means another turbo, would rather just get a big enough one to start with!
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Old 11-19-2020, 02:50 PM   #17
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HY35 I can recommend for the 90+... a little smaller housing than the HX and single scroll...

Mine (10cm) easily did 1 bar at 3000 rpm on a milled 90+, stock engine with D cam and LH...
This was something else compared to the 18T I had before. This will work very well on a 90+, 8v and 1.5 bar.
Don't get scared by the "big turbo's don't spool" remarks, every time I upgraded turbo's I was pleasantly surprised. Go big or don't try.

HX35 will give a little worse spool on a 90+ because you don't use the twin scroll and the housing is bigger, but it will make more power.
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Old 11-19-2020, 03:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Geoffrey View Post
Mine is off of a 2WD Sierra Saphire Cosworth so probably not big enough.



Iíve had a look at these and they look great value for money and seem to get great reviews, my only concern is the twin scroll exhaust housing, not sure how that would fair bolted onto a stock 90+ manifold.



Originally my goal was 250bhp at the wheels on standard internal with all other supporting mods. Now Iím chasing 350bhp and Iíve been told 19T isnít big enough. Iíd be more than happy at 250bhp but if I want to go for more then it means another turbo, would rather just get a big enough one to start with!
This was with stock B230F and A-cam, medium size china cooler. Crank dyno, steady state measurement.
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Old 11-20-2020, 04:24 PM   #19
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HY35 I can recommend for the 90+... a little smaller housing than the HX and single scroll...

Mine (10cm) easily did 1 bar at 3000 rpm on a milled 90+, stock engine with D cam and LH...
This was something else compared to the 18T I had before. This will work very well on a 90+, 8v and 1.5 bar.
Don't get scared by the "big turbo's don't spool" remarks, every time I upgraded turbo's I was pleasantly surprised. Go big or don't try.

HX35 will give a little worse spool on a 90+ because you don't use the twin scroll and the housing is bigger, but it will make more power.
Sounds like the perfect turbo for the job I want!!

Had a little look online for one today and could only seem to find them on eBay from China, not sure how I feel about that tbh. Where did you get yours from and what wheels are you running? It seems thereís an endless combination on the holset turbos!
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:43 AM   #20
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Keep in mind that the larger the turbo, the more the power band will shift upwards - to the point where the stock trans gearing isn't going to make the car pleasant to drive as a DD. Then you get into changing cams, adjustable timing gear, playing with FD ratios, and other stuff just to make it pleasant to drive again in the lower & mid range. Will end up costing way more than 4-600 quid.

The advantage to sticking with the 19T, or a 16G etc., is that they spool & build torque early. Unless you are going to drag or highway race this thing, that is way more satisfying from a driving perspective than high HP numbers, in my experience...
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Old 11-21-2020, 12:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Sjeng View Post

Mine (10cm) easily did 1 bar at 3000 rpm on a milled 90+, stock engine with D cam and LH...
This was something else compared to the 18T I had before. This will work very well on a 90+, 8v and 1.5 bar.
Slightly off topic, but what were the downsides of the 18T as I just got one What power level did you end up at?
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Old 11-21-2020, 12:57 PM   #22
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For that budget, you can get a genuine nearly new Holset from eBay or Compressor Racing or the like here in the UK. Something like a HE221, HX30, HX32 (rare), HE250. HE300 or HX35 might be more than you need, but can be found with the smaller ~50mm induced compressor instead of 54/56/60mm ones, and with a smaller turbine housing they spool well. Also, Martin Leaf (Viking Fabrications) has recently started offering up pipe adapters with or without external wastegate (good idea with Holsets as internal gates are small) flange.

https://m.facebook.com/Viking-Fabric...3788523378217/
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Old 11-21-2020, 04:54 PM   #23
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Slightly off topic, but what were the downsides of the 18T as I just got one What power level did you end up at?
No downsides really, it is a good turbo and I had plenty of fun with it. However the holset really woke the car up, the useable powerband actually got wider with it, way more torque at high engine speeds.

The mitsu turbo was better from 2000-3000rpm, after that it's a whole different story.

I disagree with the remark that mitsu's are more satisfying to (daily) drive than a decent turbo in 50-54mm range. Maybe the case with an automatic transmission, but certainly not with a manual trans. I guess it's subjective as well.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:07 PM   #24
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Keep in mind that the larger the turbo, the more the power band will shift upwards - to the point where the stock trans gearing isn't going to make the car pleasant to drive as a DD. Then you get into changing cams, adjustable timing gear, playing with FD ratios, and other stuff just to make it pleasant to drive again in the lower & mid range. Will end up costing way more than 4-600 quid.

The advantage to sticking with the 19T, or a 16G etc., is that they spool & build torque early. Unless you are going to drag or highway race this thing, that is way more satisfying from a driving perspective than high HP numbers, in my experience...
Iíve had fast cars in the past with a variety of driving characteristics and for the most part Iíll agree that the more drives me it is the more enjoyable.

On this occasion itís not a daily and I want it to be fun and a bit of a hooligan if Iím honest so Iím happy to go with something bigger like a HY35 or similar. It will have all the supporting mods that you mentioned to help move the power and around and make it more drivable so thereís no additional cost as far as thatís concerned.

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For that budget, you can get a genuine nearly new Holset from eBay or Compressor Racing or the like here in the UK. Something like a HE221, HX30, HX32 (rare), HE250. HE300 or HX35 might be more than you need, but can be found with the smaller ~50mm induced compressor instead of 54/56/60mm ones, and with a smaller turbine housing they spool well. Also, Martin Leaf (Viking Fabrications) has recently started offering up pipe adapters with or without external wastegate (good idea with Holsets as internal gates are small) flange.

https://m.facebook.com/Viking-Fabric...3788523378217/
Iíve done a bit of reading and the HY35 sounds perfect with the 10cm exhaust housing, it seems like itís right in the middle of the HX30 and HX35.

Just dropped Compressor Racing a message so hopefully they can find me one or something that performs in the same way.

Like the look of the Viking Fabrications stuff, love the idea of bringing the turbo forward in the bay, be interesting to see what effect extending the manifold to the turbo has on performance though.
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Old 11-22-2020, 06:38 AM   #25
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Good luck with it, hopefully I'll see it one day at a Volvo meet after this covid bollocks.
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