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Old 11-18-2020, 06:59 PM   #1
Jack
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Default B234 camshaft specs

Cant find it anymore but there use to be a thread on
Auto and marine 16v cams that had timing and cam specs. I can’t find it anymore

Anyone
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:04 PM   #2
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Hi
I can tell you that the penta cams have 1mm more lift than the car
you can time them up using the cam wheels and the rocker box
its all the same
Hope that helps
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:06 PM   #3
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You mean this?
http://www.turbobricks.com/resources...ontent=camspec
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:17 PM   #4
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Get the cams from Yoshifab or some from Europe (Cat cams, Enem, etc).
Or email Erland Cox and get a set custom made for your engine. I bet it's ~$1k usd for a set of custom cams.
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:20 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by culberro View Post
Get the cams from Yoshifab or some from Europe (Cat cams, Enem, etc).
Or email Erland Cox and get a set custom made for your engine. I bet it's ~$1k usd for a set of custom cams.
What do you have against the Penta cams?
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:29 PM   #6
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They're pretty mild, and I haven't seen any concrete lift/duration figures for them. Also, being that they're for a boat they are designed for a peak performance in a narrow operating rpm.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
they are designed for a peak performance in a narrow operating rpm.
Which is what it sounds like Jack is going for, considering he wants to put in larger valves in. You can't tell me that Yoshifab's are going to less peaky and have me believe it considering they're mild factory cams, though!

I'm just giving you a hard time. If Jack had reasonably cheap access to Penta cams over the standard B234F cams, I'd run them, too. If I was building an engine for 250hp+ with larger valves, I too would definitely go with something aftermarket if anyone wanted my inexperienced opinion(I have only dealt with a stock B234F and removed balance shafts in the General Leif). Oh, and Harald's gutless at low rpm turbo 16V engine with Yoshifab(?) camshafts.

Last edited by klr142; 11-18-2020 at 08:20 PM..
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:18 PM   #8
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The Yoshi cams are VERY similar to the cams I had reground for the 16v NA rally car. They worked really well, and it pulled out to 8k without hesitation.

The cams I had ground are based on the Techtonics Tuning "276 Sport Cam", part number: 109 570. Their cam grinder did my cams.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:21 PM   #9
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Hah, I was editing my post when you responded. Anyway, I believe you, I'm just saying I bet the Penta cams have less duration than whatever you had done up, so they will have better low rpm. Boats still have to get up out of the water so their low end isn't completely worthless. The V cam for 8v engines is actually a decent camshaft, however, also very mild.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by klr142 View Post
Oh, and Harald's gutless at low rpm turbo 16V engine with Yoshifab(?) camshafts.
Lol, Haralds "gutless" 16vt is using the cams I had ground actually.
It's far from gutless on the bottom end though. It's probably only 8.7:1 CR, and it's faster than my NA dd down low
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by gsellstr View Post
there we go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by klr142 View Post
Which is what it sounds like Jack is going for, considering he wants to put in larger valves in. You can't tell me that Yoshifab's are going to less peaky and have me believe it considering they're mild factory cams, though!
.
I can always add a cam to the build. Theres a local guy that does cams too. I can get some ground too

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Lol, Haralds "gutless" 16vt is using the cams I had ground actually.
It's far from gutless on the bottom end though. It's probably only 8.7:1 CR, and it's faster than my NA dd down low
10.1 FTW anything below sucks
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:16 PM   #12
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10.1 FTW anything below sucks
The rally 16v was 12:1. It was really fun!
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:19 PM   #13
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The rally 16v was 12:1. It was really fun!
I bet !

10.1 minimum
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Old 11-19-2020, 02:45 AM   #14
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Harald's car is turbo, hence the low static compression ratio.
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Originally Posted by culberro View Post
Lol, Haralds "gutless" 16vt is using the cams I had ground actually.
It's far from gutless on the bottom end though. It's probably only 8.7:1 CR, and it's faster than my NA dd down low
I remembered that after you said yours weren't the Yoshifabs. Harald's car feels like a slug down low compared to when it was an 8V. It pulls cleanly, I do agree, but when I drove it last(before he had decent boost control), it didn't ever throw me back into the seat with surge of torque, it just gradually ramped up. I think it's better now with proper boost control, but I haven't been in it for a long time at this point.
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Old 11-19-2020, 03:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klr142 View Post
Which is what it sounds like Jack is going for, considering he wants to put in larger valves in. You can't tell me that Yoshifab's are going to less peaky and have me believe it considering they're mild factory cams, though!

I'm just giving you a hard time. If Jack had reasonably cheap access to Penta cams over the standard B234F cams, I'd run them, too. If I was building an engine for 250hp+ with larger valves, I too would definitely go with something aftermarket if anyone wanted my inexperienced opinion(I have only dealt with a stock B234F and removed balance shafts in the General Leif). Oh, and Harald's gutless at low rpm turbo 16V engine with Yoshifab(?) camshafts.
Bro. Not sure about you, but here is a comparison between the General Leif's B230 and my "gutless" engine. On the same dyno, run by the same guy. I need to go back now that the torn in-tank lift hose leak has been addressed. I think what you may be wrongly attributing here is gearing. You know, 4.56 vs 3.73 on the same box:

Leif:



Gutless 16v:

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Old 11-19-2020, 03:20 AM   #16
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^ add mike drop gif
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Old 11-19-2020, 03:23 AM   #17
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This is with stock size runners and a nice flat adapter plate on the exhaust ports killing gas velocity at low RPM.

Definitely go for the Yoshifab cams if you can swing it. They are worth the expense.
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Old 11-19-2020, 03:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
This is with stock size runners and a nice flat adapter plate on the exhaust ports killing gas velocity at low RPM.

Definitely go for the Yoshifab cams if you can swing it. They are worth the expense.
that plate does kill some velocity for sure... I put my 16VT 245 aside for the last 8 months ..



still might go with them anyway just depends what my cam guy wants to do/ his price
going to get a better idea after flow testing - I'm a little ways out
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Old 11-19-2020, 03:50 AM   #19
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whos the cam guy?
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Old 11-19-2020, 03:53 AM   #20
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Hey, don’t come in here with numbers! The Leif’s sheet isn’t showing up for me for whatever reason l, but I know what it says. It says more torque for the Leif below 3000rpm! At least with that camshaft. Now, I’m not so sure.

Still, it’s far from the low end torque you’d get out of a similar setup on an 8v(and conversely, it would fall off at high rpm where this doesn’t). I think I would like the powerband better with stock cams in a turbo 16V street car where the low end has more oomph and it still would have plenty of pull up top.
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Old 11-19-2020, 03:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klr142 View Post
Hey, don’t come in here with numbers! The Leif’s sheet isn’t showing up for me for whatever reason l, but I know what it says. It says more torque for the Leif below 3000rpm! At least with that camshaft. Now, I’m not so sure.

Still, it’s far from the low end torque you’d get out of a similar setup on an 8v(and conversely, it would fall off at high rpm where this doesn’t). I think I would like the powerband better with stock cams in a turbo 16V street car where the low end has more oomph and it still would have plenty of pull up top.
Nobody does anything with a hot street engine below 3000 unless it's a diesel and it's geared to suit.

Also update your browsing and get in the habit of using SSL URLs when possible. It will show up then (https:// instead of http://).
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Old 11-19-2020, 04:11 PM   #22
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I don't see the leif dyno pic either.. I see the gutless 16v just fine, sorta like biden's votes..
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
Nobody does anything with a hot street engine below 3000 unless it's a diesel and it's geared to suit.

Also update your browsing and get in the habit of using SSL URLs when possible. It will show up then (https:// instead of http://).
I turned the requirement on so everything is SSL now that can be. I have no idea how I got into a cycle of things not being secure but I went through a lot of recent threads and my thread of links to add the s!

In any case, it is very true your gearing has a lot to do with the way your car feels. I forgot about that point. It reminds me(slightly) of a non-turbo 850 5spd I test drove 15 years ago. The gearing was so tall it felt extremely gutless. If you get a 4.10 in there and with better boost control/tuning that it likely has now, I bet my feelings will be much different. Good point!

For fun, here are some dyno runs. Your low end is similar to Nathan's before he turned up the boost. You just need to turn the boost up more, it seems!
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File Type: png Leif, Nathan, Eric, Harald, Peter.png (79.6 KB, 64 views)
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Old 11-20-2020, 06:38 PM   #24
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Wonder how much more the torque would have filled in if the boost controller had been active on that run. It wasn't seeing the full 11 psi of fury fairly late in the run lol
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Old 11-21-2020, 03:55 AM   #25
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Yep, I wonder as well. Your turbo was coming in at the same time as Nathan’s, that’s why I have the low boost and high boost runs from the same day in there.
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