building an NA that could

[Swedbrick]

What's the idea behind the slit at the back of the chamber? To disperse the flame front better along the cylinder?

[klr142]

A Singh groove. It is supposed to help evacuate the quench pad and create more turbulence thus providing a more complete burn, better efficiency and better knock resistance. Results may vary and our next head will not have them.

[Swedbrick]

Alright, thank you I just looked into them, what were your complaints with them on the current head?

[klr142]

No complaints specifically, I just don't think it's necessary and can't say for certain that they're worth the effort. Another person in Europe swears he had a good result with them, but I'm curious how his engine would've done without them in the same scenario. It also can create hot spots in the combustion chamber if not smoothed well enough, it might be a weak spot for cracking at some point(haven't heard of a problem on these heads, though) and/or might even fill up with carbon over time(haven't experienced this yet, but we're a race car at full throttle most of the time).

Search Singh groove on here and you'll find other threads, including a recent one.

[SkeTchy-MechAniC]

Originally Posted by klr142

No complaints specifically, I just don't think it's necessary and can't say for certain that they're worth the effort. Another person in Europe swears he had a good result with them, but I'm curious how his engine would've done without them in the same scenario. It also can create hot spots in the combustion chamber if not smoothed well enough, it might be a weak spot for cracking at some point(haven't heard of a problem on these heads, though) and/or might even fill up with carbon over time(haven't experienced this yet, but we're a race car at full throttle most of the time).

Search Singh groove on here and you'll find other threads, including a recent one.

I kinda had the same question but forgot to ask it! I really think those a such marginal gains that it ain't always worth it on every engine, Like cutting a small piece of the spark plug and bending the edge so the spark is more pointed towards the combustion chambers.. There are stories of it making a noticeable difference on an all out racing motorcycle, But never noticed a difference myself.

Just finished an order at KG, I've got to be honest.. Every time i visit their site there is an attraction to the cam section, And especially the KG8 and KG9. Maybe another time after we've been disappointed with the power output of the KL T5. Finished the order with an underdrive crank pulley and new crank gear with shims. Never knew it was possible but the PO proved you could **** up a simple timing belt swap on a b230 We fitted the cam and set lash to the correct spec. when turning the engine we noticed the belt walking off the cam the cam gear but didn't think much off it because the stock tensioner was fully adjusted outward. With the lash set and the adjustable timing gear installed we started what we thought was the final assembly with a modified tensioner. Everything bolted up with proper tension on the belt but it still tries to walk off. Cam gear and tensioner came from one of my older engines and never given any problems... Suggestions ?

[Swedbrick]

Check if the tensioner is flat against the block, this is a common issue;)

[SkeTchy-MechAniC]

Originally Posted by Swedbrick

Check if the tensioner is flat against the block, this is a common issue;)

Thanks, Will do.

For anyone that would like to try to mod spark plugs:
https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/t/d...tra-gain/49783
Let me know your findings..

[klr142]

Originally Posted by SkeTchy-MechAniC

Just finished an order at KG, I've got to be honest.. Every time i visit their site there is an attraction to the cam section, And especially the KG8 and KG9. Maybe another time after we've been disappointed with the power output of the KL T5.

I think you would get a better powerband from going with more lift and less duration. Assuming your head flows better at high lift, anyway. It's also impossible to say what lift their advertised durations are measured at without asking them and getting an answer. Shoestring tried a KG7(I think?) and it wasn't good in his engine, but it wasn't tuned for it, either. He did get it with a 110LSA which probably was killing his mid-range torque more than expected, too. It likely idled better than it would've with a 105LSA or so that would've improved the grunt out of corners if they ever got that far with it.

[dl242gt]

FYI Side gap spark plugs do improve the spark in the chamber. They have been used as the stock type of spark plug in Mercedes and Porsches since the 60s. I've used a platinum version W6DPO and WR6DPO is stock for some Mercedes and the VW G60 engines. They were the most expensive plugs I've ever bought but worked great and lasted a long time. But I admit they were more of an experiment to see if they worked well.

[redblockpowered]

Originally Posted by klr142

I think you would get a better powerband from going with more lift and less duration. Assuming your head flows better at high lift, anyway. It's also impossible to say what lift their advertised durations are measured at without asking them and getting an answer. Shoestring tried a KG7(I think?) and it wasn't good in his engine, but it wasn't tuned for it, either. He did get it with a 110LSA which probably was killing his mid-range torque more than expected, too. It likely idled better than it would've with a 105LSA or so that would've improved the grunt out of corners if they ever got that far with it.

Yup, KG7. Car didn't like it and it was worth effectively nothing over the K cam, peak power and RPM included.

[c.slopsma]

.

[SkeTchy-MechAniC]

Well.. That's a shame. The KG7, On the few specs we've got seems kind of equal to the T5 except from the wider LSA in which you've had it ground. Really starting to doubt my cam choice now, Being cheap seems to bite me in the balls again

It would be cool to equipd the head with solid lifters and go wild on the cam choice, Just wondering if the slightly stiffer valve springs from KL would be enough.. Here are some that become available when converting:

Have any of you already seen the new cams from folkrace? Seems a bit low on lift for something that aggressive.. Wondering if it's a flat nose design or just a slowramper with loads of duration.
https://folkraceshop.se/volvo/kamaxe...kamaxel-fs2526
Lyft: 12.4 mm
Duration: 330 grader (282 grader vid 1,27 lyft)
Nockvinkel: 105°
TDC: 5.7 mm
Bascirkel: insug 35.5mm, avgas 36.2mm
Ventilspel: 0.30-0.35.
Fördelarspår: Ja

A little strange specs on this cam from KG. They seem to have given it one massive exhaust lobe, Why would they've done that?
https://www.kgtrimning.org/tuning-sp...ts/gl7172.html
Camshaft for rally
LIFT 14.5mm at 0-play
LOBE ANGLE 105 °
DURATION
In (GL71) 265 ° @ 1.27mm
Out (GL72) 270 ° @ 1.27mm

Requires solid lifters

Suitable for 2.3L / 12: 1 comp

And one of my favourite Catcams cams. They list some stiffer springs than the KL ones, Don't know if it's needer or just because they also fit on other engines.. True flat nose cam design with proper lift, Duration and normal intake/exhaust distribution:
http://www.catcams.com/products/cams...nguage=english
7901415
306°/303° - 279°/275° - 13.60mm/13.30mm - 6.10mm/5.80mm

Thoughts?

[klr142]

My thoughts? Well, what are your goals??? 200hp at the crank or 240hp+ at the crank?

Originally Posted by SkeTchy-MechAniC

Well.. That's a shame. The KG7, On the few specs we've got seems kind of equal to the T5 except from the wider LSA in which you've had it ground. Really starting to doubt my cam choice now, Being cheap seems to bite me in the balls again.

Before you do anything, I would RUN your setup as you have it and see for yourself what it does. We don't have enough information about either the KG7 OR the S/T5 to know what they're going to do in your engine. Judging by KG's website, the KG7 is likely going to be pretty decent and maybe do somewhere around 200hp with the right accomodations.

KG7 Suitable for street and rally.
Requires Step 2 cylinder head or larger
and 2x45 or 2x48.

LIFT 12 @ 0-clerance
NOCK ANGLE 105°
DURATION IN 304°

KG8 Best camshaft for the rally and street car i.e. if you want to combine easy driving and good torque.
Power output up to about 240Hk.

LIFT 12,8 @ 0-clerance
NOCK ANGLE 104°
DURATION IN 315°

You have the KL cam, you should run it! It's easy enough to swap out the cam later once you've verified this setup isn't good enough for you. With your ITBs, this KL Racing cam should be enough to get 190hp according to my chats with Erland about it. It may or may not do more, but you need to put it in and find out for us.

Regarding those other cams(your links don't work, by the way), they are obviously more wild and can make more power. I was on the Folkrace website recently and noticed that they changed their available camshafts.

For the one you link to, it says:

Forged raw material comb of the highest quality with specifications that pull at the top of the register and deliver a lot of hp. Not so lofty but a brutal duration. Estimated on a 2.3L Volvo 8v is close to 250 hp if everything is optimal (ref RO engine).

Lift: 12.4 mm
Duration: 330 degrees (282 degrees at 1.27 lift)
Cam angle: 105 °
TDC: 5.7 mm
Base circle: intake 35.5mm, exhaust 36.2mm
Valve clearance: 0.30-0.35.
Manifold groove: Yes

Requires steel presses and other valve springs.
The comb is made of steel and requires extra zinc in the oil if it is to be used in a street car.

NOTE!
The camshaft is very picky when it comes to manifolds and associated parts in the engine. The manifold must have a short secondary pipe, otherwise it starts to pulsate and collide, which means that you lose a lot of hp. To get the effect mentioned, everything must be optimal, which means 50 mm DCOE carburetor, minimum 46/38 mm valves, 531 top, high comp, etc.

That's some serious business and what I thought was more agressive than you're looking for. Ideally, more lift and less duration will give you a wider, more usable powerband. Like, the ENEM C2 that we're using, for example. Or an AGAP camshaft of similar specification(or larger). The C2 is likely good for 210hp+ depending on the rest of the setup. As I mentioned somewhere else, the C2 is good for 20hp more over the S/T5 according to Erland. The C2 and some AGAP cams you can still run on the stock lifters/buckets.

Again, AGAP's camshaft profiles.

In general, I feel that the KG Trimning KG7/KG8/KG9 camshafts(and Folkraceshop) are not ideal for a wide powerband you might want on a dual purpose car. The C2, and camshafts from AGAP can offer more lift with less duration to get similar peak power(stock lifters/buckets). Or this newer GL71/72 "Rally" option(high lift, less duration).

For Catcams, why are you looking at their largest/most aggressive and flat nose option?? That camshaft likely has just a bit more duration than the C2 camshaft but with a flat nose profile for more lobe area. The C2 has more lift though, so who knows how it really compares. I'd suspect the Catcams is capable of more power because the C2 is far from the largest offering at ENEM and AGAP, but this is beyond my experience.

[klr142]

Bump.

[SkeTchy-MechAniC]

Sorry, Read you're reply but forgot to answer!

I'll definitely be trying out the T5, It's in the engine and shimmed to spec so ready to go. Boring work now atm, Finishing up the wiring loom for the ecu.. Still have some problems with the timing belt. Replaced the shims and gear down low, New tensioner .. well two actually, tried the one that worked on my prev engine and two new out of the box ones. Belt still moves slightly over the cam gear. Is there a difference in b23/b230 gear offset? the adjustable gear was made from a b23 one ..



Edit:

Why i'm looking at the most aggressive catcams cam? Well, Why make 220hp if you could make 240, Go big or go home If i'd want a torky low-mid rpm cam like we expect the t5 to be i'd just better leave it in there.

[klr142]

Sounds good!

Regarding the timing belt riding on the front of the cam's gear, sometimes you need to run a washer between the cam and the cam gear. We have to run one on our setup that is a b230 bottom end with a 405 head with an old MVP(?) adjustable cam gear so that the belt doesn't ride on the edge.

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/2115...104930-1357572

[SkeTchy-MechAniC]

That would fix our problem! Any idea how thick it is? Shipping from the usa would be more than the washer so i'll just make one myself

[Swedbrick]

Originally Posted by SkeTchy-MechAniC

That would fix our problem! Any idea how thick it is? Shipping from the usa would be more than the washer so i'll just make one myself

I recently found one on my brother's b230 whilst doing the timing belt swap, they can easily be found on square tooth belt b230's. I could possibly also ask around in the Banger network, they usually have stuff laying around for pennies, just send me a pm

p.s. it's pn: 1357572, the penta shop dealers in the Netherlands should be able to get you a fresh one

[klr142]

I looked in a box of misc. bits and found a washer in there!

It's 1.9mm thick and 36.6mm in diameter. The inside bore seems to be 19.9mm and the inside bore + the height of the notch for the cam dowel is 25.9mm on this one. I don't see why you couldn't go slightly thicker, but that's what this one is that looks to be original Volvo.

[SkeTchy-MechAniC]

Thank you guys!

I've got some engines standing around, Will see if any of them has one on it.
Swedbrick, When are you going to make some xc90 brake adapters for the 240?

[Swedbrick]

I could probably figure something out given I'd source axle and a strut, I don't own a 240 currently;)

The parking brake mechanism is in a different place entirely, so some intensive redesign would be required. Although with all involved you'd probably be out less that a v70r setup

[SkeTchy-MechAniC]

Originally Posted by Swedbrick

I could probably figure something out given I'd source axle and a strut, I don't own a 240 currently;)

The parking brake mechanism is in a different place entirely, so some intensive redesign would be required. Although with all involved you'd probably be out less that a v70r setup

That'd be verry cool!

And guess what, The cam gear spacer solved my issue. Progress isn't fast but it would be doable to start her up for the first time this month!

Anyone running an electic vaccum pump for the brake booster that likes to share some info?