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Old 05-10-2019, 01:19 PM   #551
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Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
450 rear springs sounds way too stiff from my past experience.
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Originally Posted by hackster View Post
Thanks......

I had nowhere to start (even though I inquired with people about rear spring rates and got no info back). I know that 250 is too soft, and 500 is likely too stiff.

The little seat time I have so far in the car it did well, not bouncy, didnt lose traction on corners, wasnt lifting a rear tire, was able to get the car to rotate pretty easy, very neutral.

I am sure I will change them down the road once I have a little more seat time.
I know Sean's rear springs are still aft of the axle, but are they perhaps a bit further forward than stock? Kinda looks that way from the photos. If so that would reduce the distance to the LCA front pivot point edit: instant center and reduce the effective wheel rate, so it would be softer vs. a 450 lb/in spring in the stock location.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:26 PM   #552
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^^ I was thinking the same thing - a little shorter motion ratio = stiffer spring for the same wheel rate.

I'd add - if you're serious, Sean, about even more tire (and possible more wheel to support it) -- those will weigh more and that will impact things. So I'd consider getting the wheel/tire package you ultimately want before you start fine tuning the set up. As for camber - seems like for me in a variety of McPher strut cars over the decades, I was always looking for ways to get even more negative camber up front than I had....
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:43 PM   #553
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I know Sean's rear springs are still aft of the axle, but are they perhaps a bit further forward than stock? Kinda looks that way from the photos. If so that would reduce the distance to the LCA front pivot point edit: instant center and reduce the effective wheel rate, so it would be softer vs. a 450 lb/in spring in the stock location.
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^^ I was thinking the same thing - a little shorter motion ratio = stiffer spring for the same wheel rate.

I'd add - if you're serious, Sean, about even more tire (and possible more wheel to support it) -- those will weigh more and that will impact things. So I'd consider getting the wheel/tire package you ultimately want before you start fine tuning the set up. As for camber - seems like for me in a variety of McPher strut cars over the decades, I was always looking for ways to get even more negative camber up front than I had....
These are both true statements, also, my rear shocks have a little bit of lean to them to the rear of the car, this also is going to affect motion ratio on the rear shocks/ springs.

Its going to get bigger tires, but probably not until after the summer so Ill get it dialed in with this setup first.

Car has a lot of negative Camber up front. Once the springs settled it is drastic. I am guessing close to 3 Degrees. Ill get an initial measurement on Camber next week when it goes in for an alignment. I would like to be between 2.5 and 2.75 front.

Appreciate the input guys, keep it coming, this is how we learn.

Sean
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:20 PM   #554
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This thread is full of so much awesome information. I never would have known about the effects of spring location on spring rates. Considering I want to shamelessly rip off your setup, this is good to know
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:51 PM   #555
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If the rear spring location is somewhat close to stock, the wheel rate is 1.5x the spring rate.
So a 450lb/in spring comes out to 675lb/in at the wheel.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:33 PM   #556
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This thread is full of so much awesome information. I never would have known about the effects of spring location on spring rates. Considering I want to shamelessly rip off your setup, this is good to know
That's the entire point of these build threads right? No shame dude, have at it, hit me up if you have any specific questions I am always happy to help.

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If the rear spring location is somewhat close to stock, the wheel rate is 1.5x the spring rate.
So a 450lb/in spring comes out to 675lb/in at the wheel.
You are damn close. I do however know that the angle of the shock and spring will also affect spring rate. It would take a bit of math to figure out but someone in that world could easily calculate it. great to know what the stock rate it is though. Thank you for sharing.

Had a little settling going on in the frontend so jacked the car up to adjust the coilover to find that something was going wrong. I was able to move the entire wheel assembly 1" front to back, it was super weird. Started checking things out and narrowed it down to the lower control arm bushing, at first I thought it was the bolt was wrong, but more disassembly led me to these gems.





I have never seen a bushing fail in that amount of time. Approx 300 or maybe a little more miles. 10 auto cross runs, 6 speed stops and 4 laps around a track.

These things are like gum. Super soft. We compared them to new in the package super blue bushings (IPD) and these were softer but not by a ton.

I thought that possibly the ATF from the power steering leak had hurt them but it did it on both sides.

So I tore everything down, first side fought me but the pass side was 30 mins tops.



Late Friday night trip to the twins and they whipped up these awesome pieces.



These are delrin with new sleeves. They pressed in the lower control arms pretty easy and we were off to the races.

Curious to try these out. We have no idea how long these will last at all, they are just a test. Initial drive was a massive improvement in turn in and steering feel and feedback. Little additional NVH was added by changing these out for some reason. Car is night and day difference with these installed.

Huge shoutout to these guys too. They have been a huge part of this thing, helping out with motor mounts, steering shaft, custom one off bits here and there like the dash insert, these lower control arm bushings, the LSX badges and lots of hard to find bits and pieces.

Thanks Scott and Taylor!!

Got the car together at 1 am, up at 5 for the portland transmission show, its a low key show but a great event tons of variety, mostly hot rods but some killer VW's.

Asher gave me a hand on Sunday trying to isolate my fuel leak. We used the smoke machine to find it and its the filler neck gas cap, we dropped the tank and replaced the filler neck to be safe as it was all ovaled out. Still leaks....so I need a new gas cap.





Hardest job was getting the clamp on the filler neck at the tank.

Definately helped but still need a new cap. Smell is much better than before.

Drove it around town a bunch this weekend. Exhaust is too raspy for me, I think its the front muffler making the raspy sound so that might be on its way out.

Car is a riot to drive, badly needs an alignment and even more important a stereo.

Killer pics from LS Fest came in.






Weather depending.......Track day on Friday Night, IPD Saturday.

Lets hope for good weather.

Sean
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:16 PM   #557
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Are they going to offer those bushings for sale do you know? Pending testing session. Those things just pillowed out yikes.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:09 PM   #558
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Whoa you toasted those bushings. Should brake harder without locking up now. How much toe in are you running? With more rigidity i would guess you could get away with less toe in.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:54 PM   #559
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With Delrin, you can pretty much set it exactly where you want it without allowing for any deflection.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:18 AM   #560
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What a bitchin' machine! look at those meats under there
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:10 PM   #561
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Are they going to offer those bushings for sale do you know? Pending testing session. Those things just pillowed out yikes.
Yes that is the plan. Ill get some testing in over the next few weeks and we will see how they hold up. Yeah bushings are trashed.

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Whoa you toasted those bushings. Should brake harder without locking up now. How much toe in are you running? With more rigidity i would guess you could get away with less toe in.
Too much Toe in before, too much toe out now. I am thinking Ill set it to 1/16" toe in when it gets aligned tomorrow. Agree, should be able to get less toe in. I also have way more brake than tire.

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With Delrin, you can pretty much set it exactly where you want it without allowing for any deflection.
Its amazing the difference in turn in, feel and feedback. Possibly the best of any car I have driven.

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What a bitchin' machine! look at those meats under there
Thank you, yeah its a lot of tire for a 240, not nearly enough for the crown I am trying to run with though =)
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:25 PM   #562
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IPD Saturday.

Lets hope for good weather.

Sean
Supposed to be crappy.....donít come.


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Old 05-14-2019, 01:52 PM   #563
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Maybe I should move my bbq to saturday evening. Hmm.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:55 AM   #564
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Supposed to be crappy.....donít come.


You laugh but I hate the rain........I am really hoping for dry weather on Friday and Saturday.

You going to make it down?
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:52 AM   #565
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You laugh but I hate the rain........I am really hoping for dry weather on Friday and Saturday.

You going to make it down?
Yup. Iíve been killing myself to get my car back in shape. I wouldnít miss it. I keep checking the weather channel and itís currently 70% chance of rain Friday and 60% chance Saturday. Rain is supposed to be sporadic for both days.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:15 AM   #566
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Yup. Iíve been killing myself to get my car back in shape. I wouldnít miss it. I keep checking the weather channel and itís currently 70% chance of rain Friday and 60% chance Saturday. Rain is supposed to be sporadic for both days.
so clear for portland until the drags open, then rain enough to shut down PIR?
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:38 PM   #567
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Yup. Iíve been killing myself to get my car back in shape. I wouldnít miss it. I keep checking the weather channel and itís currently 70% chance of rain Friday and 60% chance Saturday. Rain is supposed to be sporadic for both days.
Yeah I popped into your build thread this am and took a look, car is looking killer, the small stuff is such a time suck dude.

Looking forward to checking your car out after the repaint, I love white so you get my vote already.

There is a good chance I trailer my **** box over if its raining, I know Ill get **** for it but I am just not ready to drive it in the rain quite yet, everything is still new and clean.

Going to do a tapemeasure alignment on it tonight and give it a once over. Really hoping for a nice track night Friday but doubtful at this point.

Sean
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:16 PM   #568
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So after driving the turbo and supercharged set up how do you like the differences and which one do you like now?
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:09 AM   #569
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So after driving the turbo and supercharged set up how do you like the differences and which one do you like now?
There's only one correct answer to that question
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:45 PM   #570
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So after driving the turbo and supercharged set up how do you like the differences and which one do you like now?
See Below

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There's only one correct answer to that question
Haha.....knowing your background I get your opinion.

However.

They are both awesome platforms. But very, very different animals.

I love the sounds and power of the turbo, it was not such a hit to the tires and made lots of power up top. Its a complicated system with lots of hot underhood plumbing, oil feel and return lines, lots of potential for leaks and failures.

I love the OEM fit and finish of the supercharger on the GenIV ls. I love how simple it is and that its quiet. My biggest benefit is that its simple, there are no oil feed lines, wastegates or giant front mount intercoolers.

I also don't think that the big turbo goes well with a manual and also doesn't make any sense for what I am doing with the car.

Drag racing, or a daily with an auto, hands down Turbo was awesome.

Track days, Auto X and anything with a manual, the supercharger has a leg up.

Power wise, The turbo truck made boost about 2300 and up, the supercharger is from Idle. I have already driven the Volvo harder than the turbo setup and I love the power, wish it had a little more but nothing a pulley and cam wont pickup.

Sean
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:46 PM   #571
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No worries, I'm just razzing. I completely understand the attraction and benefits of a nice OE supercharger system like your LSA setup. No hate!

Cool to hear your compare / contrast however. When you're referring to the "big turbo" comparison, was that on a 5.3 or Redblock? It's certainly possible these days to set up a turbo car to have nearly instantaneous response and lots of midrange.

It's hard to make up for the off-idle torque of a supercharger, but... e-turbos are coming. Insta-spool is in our future.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:57 PM   #572
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It's certainly possible these days to set up a turbo car to have nearly instantaneous response and lots of midrange.
The new BMW i6's make peak torque at 1600rpm. I haven't driven one, and it's hard for me to imagine how a turbo motor would behave like that!
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:04 PM   #573
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The new BMW i6's make peak torque at 1600rpm. I haven't driven one, and it's hard for me to imagine how a turbo motor would behave like that!
And those are the gasoline turbos -- if you like that, drive one of their turbo-diesels. Helped a buddy do a water pump/t'stat replacement on his 3.0L X5 turbo-diesel. Man, that baby's got bottom....
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:52 PM   #574
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And those are the gasoline turbos -- if you like that, drive one of their turbo-diesels. Helped a buddy do a water pump/t'stat replacement on his 3.0L X5 turbo-diesel. Man, that baby's got bottom....
and depending on M57 or N57 possible the biggest disaster of a compound turbo setup ever.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:20 PM   #575
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Well, other than the t'stat - falls into the 8 year old/110k trouble-free miles 'so far so good' category. But - here, we're just talking about umph on the bottom, not reliability....
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