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Old 01-02-2017, 09:32 PM   #1
Mtnvolvo
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Default +t: thicker head gasket, ported exh mani vs tubular header?

Have read here for months, now ready to start B230F+T
Two questions:
1. Since I'll have the head pretty well stripped down for turbo swap and new cam, probably an IPD, what are the pros and cons of going a step further and pull the head to install a thicker gasket to reduce static CR? I've read some in favor, others that it's not worth it.

2. I read that the donor exh manifold benefits greatly from porting, along with the turbo inlet. (Sooner or later I'll upgrade to a 15g or 16-18t.) Pros and cons of a ported 940T exh manifold vs ebay stainless turbo header?

Goal is as much bhp as I can get for a grand or so in parts. 300?

Donor is 1994 940T, going into a '93 240 wagon with Ford T5 trans (after I get one, and HD clutch, separate budget for those)
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:53 PM   #2
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Thicker head gasket equals detonation fest no bueno because no quench area
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:16 PM   #3
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Maybe install turbo pistons.
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Old 01-02-2017, 11:05 PM   #4
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New pistons/rings not in budget. 93 240 has 150K reasonably cared for miles. 94 940T donor car runs well, but 220K and unknown use/abuse. If it has good compr, should I swap out the whole engine then?
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Old 01-02-2017, 11:26 PM   #5
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Just run the well cared for B230F as is. I always feel the extra compression is an advantage as long as it's not pinging. I ran 11psi without problem (unknown motor, stock everything and stock LH2.4), others have run plenty more.

If you wind up the boost then the tune becomes critical, so concentrate on that.
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Old 01-02-2017, 11:39 PM   #6
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Agreed on the head gasket, keep it closer to the .033" or so range, actually cuts down the detonation while allowing you to keep the higher CR.

And yes, I do have first hand experience...
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Old 01-03-2017, 12:33 PM   #7
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Shooting for 300 crank? Leave it all stock but you're going to need something more than that teeny exhaust housing on the td04 turbo
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Old 01-03-2017, 12:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnvolvo View Post
New pistons/rings not in budget. 93 240 has 150K reasonably cared for miles. 94 940T donor car runs well, but 220K and unknown use/abuse. If it has good compr, should I swap out the whole engine then?
Yes.
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Old 01-03-2017, 01:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnvolvo View Post

Goal is as much bhp as I can get for a grand or so in parts. 300?)
Sorry, but I had to laugh at this one, unless you were being cheeky?

Volvo/Mitsu turbos are just too twinky for that power level. Some whiteblock 19T setups may have come close, but no way for reliable use. And with a shagged stock motor??

Plan on at least tripling your budget if you really have 300bhp as you goal.
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Old 01-03-2017, 01:35 PM   #10
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Tripling the budget isn't really necessary..

My 300whp car was a used ebay t3/t4 in a cossie turbine housing, 3" exhaust, ebay intercooler, ls9 injectors, a kjet main pump and autozone in-tank, IPD cam, tuned on e85.

$110 turbo setup
~$300 for exhaust and charge piping
~$100 intercooler
~$100 injectors
~$100 fuel system
~$200 camshaft

Not to say there's not other costs that will nickel and dime you to death, but $1k for 300bhp isn't that unreasonable

All that and not even the 90+ mani when it dyno'd that number thru an auto, still runs and has moved on to two new owners, on a stock 150k mile b230f.

It's not rocket science

Last edited by turbotankshane; 01-03-2017 at 01:41 PM..
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:43 PM   #11
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I appreciate all the helpful input, and welcome more.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:51 PM   #12
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Any thoughts about the second question: ported '94 exhaust mani vs ebay tubular header exhaust - with a turbo upgrade in mind?
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:47 PM   #13
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Stock works great.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:53 PM   #14
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RE. the first question, others have stated it really nicely. The 8v head isn't a great place to run a thicker gasket as opposed to the 16v head. There is a rather large thread a ways (years) back where they talked in great detail about this if you don't mind spending some time.

I've driven b230+T's for years with chipped ecu's as well as aftermarket ems's just with a downtuned ignition map. They ran fine on pump gas.

I am however a recent e85 convert. Do you have e85 available locally ? I recently tuned a b234f+T and with no exaggeration was able to add back in around 10 wonderful degrees of timing back in places that would ping like a (insert descriptor) with pump gas. If you can get it without driving 45 minutes to an e85 station, and/or have the ability to tune your hooptie, then by all means skip the thicker headgasket and just go for it.

Re the exhaust manifold porting... I am probably going to be one of the only people to tell you that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the turbo inlet on the 90+ manifold when dealing with a smaller stock sized turbo like the 15g series and that while porting the manifold and turbo look really cool, , the porting is actually counter productive.... and it basically hurts performance. Other wiser people than me (ie, people that get paid to do this for a living... search for Erland Cox) have stated that it would be better for performance to actually decrease the size of the opening.... and I will leave that one right there.

The place that would really need the attention especially if you just want to port something is the wastegate port hole in the turbine housing. I digress.

However, if you're seriously looking to push things I recommend skipping the mitsubishi series altogether and find a decent t40e 50 trim somewhere. You can do the chinabay I suppose, but see if you can find something kind of genuine. It's a great turbo for just about anything you can throw at it with room to grow in the long run.

The tubular header looks nice, but I think if you talk to people that had one, they're secretly wishing they could go back to the simplicity of the 90+....

My 2c.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:08 PM   #15
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I love my header way more than the 90+. Lights up the turbo faster BUT they require extensive mods to make work/fit right
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:48 PM   #16
Mtnvolvo
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Lots of great advice that will help me make good choices. Thanks to each of you. I'm all about simplicity and don't care about looks. 16v+T would be my out of reach dream! (technically, time, and $$.) But I drooled on pic of Brimley's engine anyway.

I was just about to post the newbie's wail of WHERE to "find a decent T40e somewhere ... kind of genuine" w/o waving one or more $1000 bills around, when I saw this on ebay, says from Ford dealership, new. I'm an ok wrench monkey, but turbo details are kind of a foreign language to me - working on that. The trim is not exactly 50 as per 740ATL and others' advice. I can't tell what kind of flange it has, with the clamp on it in the pics, but I need to get a 3" downpipe anyway. So is this turbo workable? at $500, the price is enticing. Ad says: 7ar 57 trim "E" compressor, twin scroll/entry T4 1.0 a/r turbine, anti surge cover, new 3.5" V-Band flange kit (that probably indicates the type of flange I'd guess.) And looks like it might be a 5 bolt, which would take it out of the race, right? Which would take me back to the newbie's wail...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Garrett-Turb...bonetics-T3-T4
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Old 01-03-2017, 11:06 PM   #17
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That's a massive turbine and would take forever to spool(if ever) you want a .63 t3 turbine and as for the compressor side, a size of T4 that would suit your needs also for simplicity sake, you would want an intrenal wastegate
edit.... thanks for the drool, my car sadly has 3x your budget in it:/

Last edited by Wilford Brimley; 01-03-2017 at 11:35 PM..
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