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Old 05-01-2019, 05:07 PM   #26
bobxyz
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Was the engine running when you made your measurements? (I don't have the diag procedure here.) The fuel pump relay senses the tach signal from the coil and won't turn on until engine starts cranking, or running.
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanflametrap View Post
(Non lambda version)

Lambda sond is a separate system.

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Old 05-01-2019, 05:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Lambda sond is a separate system.
Sorry, Ian, didn't mean it as a critique. We in the 49-state arena didn't get lambda-sond until
'80. Indeed, the book (NCF 78) does show the two systems as if they were separate.

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Was the engine running when you made your measurements? (I don't have the diag procedure here.) The fuel pump relay senses the tach signal from the coil and won't turn on until engine starts cranking, or running.
Very good point. The troubleshooting chart does look as though it was based on the old relay with the airflow switch. Step B2 disables it.
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:57 PM   #29
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Ok, I have to go back to F3 then, and also check for voltage at 87b on the k-jet fuel relay. Thanks!

No the engine was not running, the manual just said turn the ignition on, which I took to mean the key position.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2turbotoys View Post
Ok, I have to go back to F3 then, and also check for voltage at 87b on the k-jet fuel relay. Thanks!

No the engine was not running, the manual just said turn the ignition on, which I took to mean the key position.
If you have 12V at 87b on the k-jet fuel relay when it runs, and the noise of the engine is distracting, you could shut it off and just stuff a jumper bridging pins 30 and 87b in place of the k-jet fuel relay to deliver battery to the lambda relay and the heaters in the aux valve and cpr.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:17 PM   #31
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I went back to F1 with the engine running. Ended at F5 having voltage, solution is to repair wire from CI system fuel pump relay to sensor system relay terminal 86. I pulled the fuel pump relay out to see which terminals are which, reinstalled it, and now have no fuel pump again. I guess it might be in the wiring, it all looks good so far, gonna get a flashlight and see if I can see anything.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:21 PM   #32
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The relay to socket connection is VERY tight and the relay pins are directly connected to the circuit board inside. The printed circuit board is only good for a couple removals/reinsertions. A very common problem solved by removing the relay cover and reflowing the solder between the board and the connecting pins.

Even if you cannot see a break in the solder it doesn't hurt to do that.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestPoint View Post
T...

Even if you cannot see a break in the solder it doesn't hurt to do that.
^^^



The one on the left needs some solder.




Make a jumper like this to bypass the fuel relay, connecting 30 to 87a and 87b
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:39 PM   #34
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Well I found why the pump wouldn't work...

Yes that is wrapped in electrical tape, and the wire for 30 is arcing to the relay...I suppose that could burn the relay up? The fuel pump relay socket has obviously gotten warm, as the hole for the relay position 30 wire is not the correct shape anymore haha. Jamming the wire in deep allowed the car to start, but no voltage from 87b still.

Ok, I'll make the jumper. I think I should fix the relay socket first, as the engine keeps shutting off, the contact on 80 is terrible.

Anyone have a decent fuel pump relay socket?
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:52 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2turbotoys View Post
...

Anyone have a decent fuel pump relay socket?
If you want to "restore" the car, yes, get a new plastic housing. But you can make it reliable with new terminals crimped on wire cut back to where it isn't crispy even without a new housing. I think Dave Barton has the sockets on hand, and I bet Ian and Eric can find one for you too.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:05 PM   #36
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This housing is beyond repair, I'll think about it for the night. I guess it really doesn't need the housing if I shrink wrap the terminals or use shielded ones. I'll probably go that route for now, I'll do it in the morning and then continue the troubleshooting. Thanks!
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:15 PM   #37
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I popped the cover off the relay (KAE 3.302.200) and it seems fine except for what appears to be an accidental little solder bridge, here's a pic:



Think that shouldn't be there
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:25 PM   #38
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But this is worse:

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Old 05-01-2019, 09:12 PM   #39
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Seems like we need to get you a Striebel relay. The Kaehler relays aren't that great, unfortunately. Both of my turbo cars have early 1235337 relays installed. 245Ti has one from a late '79 car (black plastic case), and 242Ti has one from a '78 with the metal case. Both have the desirable brass terminals.

When I first picked up the 242 from a friend in 2016, the relay was a Kaehler from iPd. Car would start, then immediately die, as if the CPR was bad. Except that it would never run longer than a second. Discovered I had a used Striebel K-Jet relay in the cargo area of our old '92 245 when I drove that car over to check the 242 out. Swapped relays and it fired right up, no problem. Ran perfectly fine until I kicked the relay while disengaging the clutch and stalled the car out. Relay coil on that one was loose. But it at least ran and had normal power until I did what I did. Popped another in and everything was good.

If it turns out you need one, I have a spare late model green Volvo/Striebel relay that works. Can send that your way.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:24 PM   #40
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I would greatly appreciate that if it is the correct relay! My brother came up with a great heavy duty solution using a a heavy duty dpdt relay, but it would be easier to get a factory one. I don't want any more junk, the above pics are of a relay that has about 15 miles on it...

Just for fun I dug the relay I replaced out of the trash, and the failure point is obvious, even if I hadn't circled it in red



Pm coming your way, thanks!
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:50 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanflametrap View Post
Sorry, Ian, didn't mean it as a critique. We in the 49-state arena didn't get lambda-sond until '80. Indeed, the book (NCF 78) does show the two systems as if they were separate.
No need to apologize Art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanflametrap View Post
If you want to "restore" the car, yes, get a new plastic housing. But you can make it reliable with new terminals crimped on wire cut back to where it isn't crispy even without a new housing. I think Dave Barton has the sockets on hand, and I bet Ian and Eric can find one for you too.
Yep, Dave has them for $3.

https://www.240turbo.com/blackvinyl.html#5polerelayplug

They cost less from Volvo but who knows how long it will take to get one.

https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts...sulator-964198
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:01 PM   #42
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Ian, I actually need the fuel pump relay socket
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:09 PM   #43
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Scroll down 2 items for the relay insulator. That's the closest anchor to the fuel pump insulator on Dave's page.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:23 PM   #44
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I didn't think to scroll down, thanks!
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:35 PM   #45
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Ok, so I replaced the fuel pump relay socket and relay, as well as the Lambda Sond relay. The idle air motor? plug was all smashed up, so I replaced that as well. Big thanks to Dave Barton for his patience and for stocking this stuff for us! New plugs, Bougicord wires (except had to get aftermarket coil wire), cap and rotor. Plug wires properly routed instead of a zip tied bundle. The engine sounds a lot smoother, cold idle is now 1100 RPM. Exhaust is still incredibly loud and leaky haha.

First impression is that the car is still very slow. I was only able to do about 4 miles in it, I hope to do a lot more tomorrow, and hope the exhaust doesn't get me in trouble. The good news is coming up the very steep hill to my house, in second gear the car now revs much higher, was 3k rpm, I hit a bit over 5k rpm. There is a lot more power after 4000 rpm for some reason (the VX cam? idk). But shifting to 3rd at 5k rpm, no torque and I had to go back to 2nd gear.

I didn't get to check the warm idle, it didn't get very warm. Hopefully an update tomorrow.
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:21 PM   #46
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I don't see an update, so I hope no news is good news.

My question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2turbotoys View Post
except had to get aftermarket coil wire
Why? They don't make a kit with a coil wire that long? Did you know that before you bought them?
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:42 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Tuttle View Post
....

My question:



Why? They don't make a kit with a coil wire that long? Did you know that before you bought them?
Mine always come with both long and short coil wires. I just opened a sealed box to be sure I'm not lying.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:36 PM   #48
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Maybe I am ordering from the wrong place haha. I got a Volvo box with 4 wires in it and contacted them, they sent me the proper length coil wire, it just isn't a Bougicord.

I still haven't been able to take the car out yet, I will definitely update after I do.
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:18 PM   #49
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I got to spend some time behind the wheel today, I was held up due to a small u-joint fiasco but its fixed now. Anyway, here is how it went.
Cold start, takes a couple tries and it fires up. Power sucks worse than normal with the engine cold, hesitates. Got somewhat better after it warmed up. 1st and 2nd gear are really slow and the RPM's build slowly. The only way to get any decent power is to shift 6k rpm, and keep the revs high in the next gear.
I got it up to 75 MPH (not an easy thing to do, really revving it out), then I had to slow down, dropped back to 4th, and struggled to get back to 65.
Warm idle is still 600 RPM.
I did not get a chance to check ignition timing yet due to the u-joint stuff, ran outta time, but we did get a test pipe in where the cat used to be. Its mounted with some pretty stiff rubber, and vibrates the car a little...

Looking at my Haynes manual, the first thing it says is the idle speed needs to be correct, which mine isn't, but not sure if I should adjust it.

I will recheck the Lambda system again, I did not go through all the tests again after fixing the fuel pump relay issue, there may still be a problem somewhere.
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:37 PM   #50
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Set the timing to 12-14° btdc and it should run properly, it doesn't take much retardation to kill 107hp.
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