home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-02-2014, 04:31 AM   #1
Turbeam
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default IRS 960 estate with G90?

Quick question, in the UK all 3-litre 960 estates with the live axle got the Eaton G80 diff as standard equipment.

On the later cars that had the IRS and transverse leaf spring arrangement, was there any kind of LSD type of option, including a G80, or did they all usually come out of the factory with normal open diffs?

The IRS probably makes the cars ride better, but having no means of controlling or limiting differential speed in the axle seems like a backward step if nothing else was available?

I've seen a late model IRS-equipped 3-litre 960 estate that appears to have an open diff and am considering the options.
Turbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 08:10 AM   #2
FlyingTog
B6304 douche
 
FlyingTog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cape May County, New Jersey
Default

I've owned 4 gen-2 IRS 960s so far, and all of them have had G80 lockers. In my opinion, you're more likely to find one of them with a G80 rather than without. Easiest way to tell if a car has one is the jack up the rear axle and give one wheel a swift spin.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazychopstick View Post
Just a 960 bumper returning to its original form.
97 965R M90 My car! It's Purple! 261K+! 15.66@89.14
83 Group A 242. 7k+ original miles. Long term project.
98 V90 Parts car. Silver 225k+
98 V90 Mom's car. Dark Green. 178K+
59 Austin Healey Bugeye Sprite. Project car.
94 Miata. Weekend car with 55K+ original miles!
94 Miata. LeMons project.

960 build thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=231763
FlyingTog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 09:18 AM   #3
monty400k
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingTog View Post
I've owned 4 gen-2 IRS 960s so far, and all of them have had G80 lockers. In my opinion, you're more likely to find one of them with a G80 rather than without. Easiest way to tell if a car has one is the jack up the rear axle and give one wheel a swift spin.
I wonder if this is the case for UK cars? If you jack the car up and spin one wheel it should lock and spin the other the same way right?
monty400k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 01:06 PM   #4
FlyingTog
B6304 douche
 
FlyingTog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cape May County, New Jersey
Default

Exactly. Or at least lock and stop spinning abruptly.
FlyingTog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 02:30 PM   #5
Turbeam
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monty400k View Post
I wonder if this is the case for UK cars? If you jack the car up and spin one wheel it should lock and spin the other the same way right?
There you are Jonathan.... it seems that other IRS axled 960s DO have an Eaton G80 option... at least in some other markets.

From what you were telling me the other night though, your car doesn't sound like it has one. I haven't heard of a G80 breaking or stopping working in some way in normal use that might otherwise explain one wheel spinning on its own as you described?

Could it possibly have been the case that BOTH rear wheels might have been spinning at the same time on an icy slope?

On my G80 equipped live axles, it really takes quite a bit of hard and rapid 'rotating' effort to simulate the 100rpm lock up speed. If you can't get it to do this, it isn't necessarily conclusive that a G80 isn't fitted. For definite confirmation one way or other it might be necessary to remove the rear cover?

It is of course perfectly possible that later IRS cars didn't get a G80 for the UK market.

I'm curious to hear what you find fitted to your car.
Turbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 04:25 PM   #6
wckd
Board Member
 
wckd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Estonia, EU
Default

FWIW, all 4 of the IRS 960's in my family have the locker which doesn't always engage. That is on ice/snow/gravel, never tried spinning the wheel with the car jacked up. Also, when it does lock, on occasion it won't release for a while. So I'm guessing it could just be sludge or smth. considering the diff oil has probably never been changed.
__________________
960 '95B6304FS 150kw
960 '95 B6304GS 150kw
960 '96 B6304GS 150kw
wckd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 04:40 PM   #7
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

My 95 960 did not come with a g80.

It didn't have seat heaters either, but it did have headlight wipers.
__________________
www.BEIGEPOWER.com
Kaplhenke Racing Facebook
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKratoz View Post
The only safe bet is Ben.©
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 04:56 AM   #8
SeriousSteve
staring at my desk
 
SeriousSteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Wales, UK
Default

The IRS cars had the 1055 and the 1065 - basically IRS versions of the 1031 and 1041.

My S90 is currently on its third rear diff. It's been through the original 1998 3.54, a 3.73 from a 1998 V90 and a 3.73 from a 1997 S90. Every one has been a 1055 open diff.

Maybe I'm unlucky (probably so, breaking diffs with a stock B6304 ) but I don't think the 1065s were very common in the UK market.
__________________
2002 Volvo V70 T5 - Daily beater
Now completely RWD-less
SeriousSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 07:46 AM   #9
monty400k
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousSteve View Post
Maybe I'm unlucky (probably so, breaking diffs with a stock B6304 ) but I don't think the 1065s were very common in the UK market.
As I suspected, do you know if there is any way to identify a 1065, is the casing different? I know a guy with a quite a few 900 series cars, would be good to check if any had one fitted without having to open them up
monty400k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 10:58 AM   #10
Silver
No crust.
 
Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle WA (under the hood)
Default

I have an extra IRS G80 sitting around. Would trade it for a set of 960 3.31 gears or you could just buy it.
__________________
V9000+

Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 11:21 AM   #11
monty400k
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
I have an extra IRS G80 sitting around. Would trade it for a set of 960 3.31 gears or you could just buy it.
Im in the UK, so Im not sure if you would still be interested in a trade? What would you be looking for if I bought it outright? What car was the 3.31 gears fitted too? Thanks
monty400k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 01:53 PM   #12
Turbeam
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
My 95 960 did not come with a g80.

It didn't have seat heaters either, but it did have headlight wipers.
As a '95, was that still with a live axle or an IRS?

Was it also a 3-litre or a 2.5? The G80 was standard fitment on the 960 Estate in the UK, but only on the 3-litre model.

3.31 and 3.54 are listed as ratios, but all of the 1041 G80-equipped live axles I've seen in the UK from 3-litre 960s have had the 41/11 3.73:1 ratio.... maybe expected to carry a bit more weight in the back?

I think that rear cover needs to come off for a look see!
Turbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 02:55 PM   #13
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbeam View Post
As a '95, was that still with a live axle or an IRS?

Was it also a 3-litre or a 2.5? The G80 was standard fitment on the 960 Estate in the UK, but only on the 3-litre model.

3.31 and 3.54 are listed as ratios, but all of the 1041 G80-equipped live axles I've seen in the UK from 3-litre 960s have had the 41/11 3.73:1 ratio.... maybe expected to carry a bit more weight in the back?

I think that rear cover needs to come off for a look see!

IRS, and 3 litre. They only sold the 3L version in the US.

95+ got more torque and a 3.73 with less topend.
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 03:31 PM   #14
sbabbs
Board Member
 
sbabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rushing Lane, Scappoose, OR
Default

I got one with the transverse spring in it here sitting on the ground and it has a white tag on it says 1065 on it. Pretty sure that means locker. All 960 sedans are IRS earlier before 96 wagons have the solid rear end.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1065.jpg (136.9 KB, 153 views)
__________________
1977 242 16v AQ171C M47 3.73truetrac LH2.4 is the dream.
1988 245 White slicktop M47 Wagon! 0 oil pressure..
1990 745 B230FT M46 13c A-cam 3.54 540K MILES slippin clutch
1991 744 RSI rods pistons 2.5L 16v Holset Getrag 3.31 7.25 twin disc someday get it done.
1991 740SE B230FT NPR Strut braces IPD bar A cam 550cc EV14's. M90 to put in.
sbabbs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 04:28 PM   #15
VB242
Pee shiverer
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbeam View Post
There you are Jonathan.... it seems that other IRS axled 960s DO have an Eaton G80 option... at least in some other markets.

From what you were telling me the other night though, your car doesn't sound like it has one. I haven't heard of a G80 breaking or stopping working in some way in normal use that might otherwise explain one wheel spinning on its own as you described?

Could it possibly have been the case that BOTH rear wheels might have been spinning at the same time on an icy slope?

On my G80 equipped live axles, it really takes quite a bit of hard and rapid 'rotating' effort to simulate the 100rpm lock up speed. If you can't get it to do this, it isn't necessarily conclusive that a G80 isn't fitted. For definite confirmation one way or other it might be necessary to remove the rear cover?

It is of course perfectly possible that later IRS cars didn't get a G80 for the UK market.

I'm curious to hear what you find fitted to your car.
I broke one, it went right back to the one tire fire but it still drove.
__________________
Fartvanoogin
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 10:36 PM   #16
Turbeam
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
I got one with the transverse spring in it here sitting on the ground and it has a white tag on it says 1065 on it. Pretty sure that means locker. All 960 sedans are IRS earlier before 96 wagons have the solid rear end.
That sounds the same as in the UK. I think the G80 was an option on the saloon/ sedan with the IRS, but I've never yet seen one that anybody has specified this option on.


BTW.... that axle looks to be in very good condition, no real corrosion anywhere and all of the factory tags still present.... I guess you don't have salted roads in the winter!
Turbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 10:45 PM   #17
Turbeam
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
I broke one, it went right back to the one tire fire but it still drove.
Did you ever pull that one apart... I'm curious as to what actually failed? Was there a lot of torque/ tyre being used, or perhaps very hard launching when it failed?

One of the attractions to me of using the Volvo live axle in the first place was that they have such a good reputation for strength.

So, on the axle in question, it could either be that despite being a 3-litre 960 Estate that the UK IRS versions DIDN'T get a G80 from the factory as standard (which would be slightly surprising), or it could be that the stock G80 HAS failed or stopped working in some way (which would also be a little surprising).

I doubt that there will be any evidence of factory spec tags remaining on this axle!

Rear cover off time I reckon.
Turbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 11:09 PM   #18
crogthomas
Board Member
 
crogthomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bracknell, UK
Default

What are you actually trying to do? Your Sunbeam has a live axle, so why the interest in the 960 IRS setup?
crogthomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 01:18 AM   #19
FlyingTog
B6304 douche
 
FlyingTog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cape May County, New Jersey
Default

For the record, my IRS 960 has over 237k miles on it on the stock G80 equipped rear axle and it hasn't broken yet or stopped working. And I beat the ever loving shyt out of my car. Clutch kicks, burnouts, hard launches, etc. It takes it like a champ. I've put almost 100k miles on the car (97k+) personally and it's still going strong. Only thing I did was when I had the rear suspension apart when I did the coilovers, I welded the weight inside the G80 to keep it from unlocking above 30mph. Other than the associated flush and fluid change when I did that, the rear axle is stock with close to 240k miles.
FlyingTog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 09:28 AM   #20
monty400k
Board Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default

[QUOTE=crogthomas;4819277]What are you actually trying to do? Your Sunbeam has a live axle, so why the interest in the 960 QUOTE]

It's not for the Sunbeam, it's for my 960, i am also planning to fit a supercharger later this year which Jim has been advising me on, one thing ive been concerned about is the lack of traction, we have been trying to work out if my car has an open diff or not, i had a look this morning and its a 1055 as i suspected so I will need to look for a 1065
monty400k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 09:36 AM   #21
VB242
Pee shiverer
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbeam View Post
Did you ever pull that one apart... I'm curious as to what actually failed? Was there a lot of torque/ tyre being used, or perhaps very hard launching when it failed?

One of the attractions to me of using the Volvo live axle in the first place was that they have such a good reputation for strength.

So, on the axle in question, it could either be that despite being a 3-litre 960 Estate that the UK IRS versions DIDN'T get a G80 from the factory as standard (which would be slightly surprising), or it could be that the stock G80 HAS failed or stopped working in some way (which would also be a little surprising).

I doubt that there will be any evidence of factory spec tags remaining on this axle!

Rear cover off time I reckon.
I had pulled off the side of the road and spun the tires to get back on the road, the only thing I can think happened was there was a really large difference in traction as one wheel got on the roadway and one was still in the grass. I've spun the tires in 1st 2nd and 3rd on surfaces with the same traction and have had no problems. The governor weight was split in half and the shaft it's mounted on looks like it went through the ring gear. there was some clunking and binding when it broke, but after the parts settled on the bottom it went back to operating as an open diff.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 11:25 AM   #22
Turbeam
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingTog View Post
For the record, my IRS 960 has over 237k miles on it on the stock G80 equipped rear axle and it hasn't broken yet or stopped working. And I beat the ever loving shyt out of my car. Clutch kicks, burnouts, hard launches, etc. It takes it like a champ. I've put almost 100k miles on the car (97k+) personally and it's still going strong. Only thing I did was when I had the rear suspension apart when I did the coilovers, I welded the weight inside the G80 to keep it from unlocking above 30mph. Other than the associated flush and fluid change when I did that, the rear axle is stock with close to 240k miles.
I'm not yet putting anything like the torque through my G80 that the guys with +T motors would be, or even running up very much annual mileage, but over the last 6 years or so when it has been getting used it has had to put up with a fair bit of harsh punishment... all without ever giving any trouble.

I still believe that with the right level of mods these units can offer a good compromise of benefits without need of regular maintenance or replacement for wear reasons as would be the case with alternative types.
Turbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 11:36 AM   #23
Turbeam
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
I had pulled off the side of the road and spun the tires to get back on the road, the only thing I can think happened was there was a really large difference in traction as one wheel got on the roadway and one was still in the grass. I've spun the tires in 1st 2nd and 3rd on surfaces with the same traction and have had no problems. The governor weight was split in half and the shaft it's mounted on looks like it went through the ring gear. there was some clunking and binding when it broke, but after the parts settled on the bottom it went back to operating as an open diff.
It has probably been a big torque difference acting across the diff before the unit has had a chance to fully 'ramp-up' and lock.

I don't fully understand how that could have happened .... presumably the diff was already locked when both wheels were spinning on the grass and there was a big shock loading as one tyre got grip on the tarmac, but that is pretty much what it was designed to do?

The actual rotating lock-up mass and its mounting are not particularly stout looking, but they normally only have to bring the friction plate end pack and ramps into hard contact to affect locking, after which they are mostly unloaded?
Turbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 11:41 AM   #24
Turbeam
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default

[QUOTE=monty400k;4819329]
Quote:
Originally Posted by crogthomas View Post
What are you actually trying to do? Your Sunbeam has a live axle, so why the interest in the 960 QUOTE]

It's not for the Sunbeam, it's for my 960, i am also planning to fit a supercharger later this year which Jim has been advising me on, one thing ive been concerned about is the lack of traction, we have been trying to work out if my car has an open diff or not, i had a look this morning and its a 1055 as i suspected so I will need to look for a 1065
Did you find a label on it or did you have to remove the cover Jonathan?

I'm a little suprrised that a later model UK 960 Estate doesn't come as stock with some kind of differential anti-spin device fitted, G80 or otherwise.

I guess that one of those must now be very high on your wish list...I think it would make a huge difference to your car even before adding a supercharger.
Turbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 11:42 AM   #25
VB242
Pee shiverer
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

I don't really know what happened but here's the link to my busted G80 thread with pics of the damage. I cut my governor weight as opposed to welding, I will weld the next one if this one (cut governor weight as well ) breaks.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=283229
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.