home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-22-2016, 10:03 AM   #1
sspony
Board Member
 
sspony's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland
Default AQ130 (B20) rebuild for a 122

Hello all!
About to take on a new project and thought I'd get a thread going for some questions I have now and all of the other ones that will certainly come up!

Here's the backstory...
I have a 65' 122s with the b18 and 4spd trans. I've done a full tuneup and upgraded to electronic ignition and higher flowing air filters. The car is a dog, as in I can only go 35mph up steep mountains. I did a compression test on the motor and all of my numbers were in the 80's and 90's. Checked the valve adjustment and they were decent. So I decided a rebuild or engine upgrade was in order. I picked up a late 60's/early 70's AQ130 (a B20 in a boat). It didn't run but rotated freely.

Current...
I started tearing the b20 down last night. Lots of corrosion in the coolant passages. The cylinders are also covered in junk (dirt/corrosion I believe). The head looks pretty rough around the valve faces as well. I'll try to post pics/measurements of the bore this weekend.

So the plan for the block was to hot tank, hone, re-ring, all new bearings and seals. For the head I wanted to hot tank, hardened valve seats and 3-angle valve job.

I'm hoping to increase my horsepower to a drive able level while keeping it low budget. This does not need to be a race car. Peppy is good enough. Reliability is important.

First question, any recommendations for the build? Should I consider upgrading the cam? Seems to be an expensive option.
Secondly, what are the main differences between the marine and auto versions of the b20? Have any of you done this swap?
Finally what's the best way to deal with all of the corrosion?

If you want more info here a thread that explains the journey so far...
http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/sh...=310252&page=4

Thanks!
__________________
Potential, potential, potential....

65' 122s (daily driver)
82' 242 dl
88' 740 "rally wagon"

Last edited by sspony; 01-22-2016 at 12:14 PM..
sspony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 12:46 PM   #2
sspony
Board Member
 
sspony's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland
Default

Also, how do you pull the timing set?
sspony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 01:00 PM   #3
Canuck
Frozen Garage Hell
 
Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge, AB, Canada
Default

The Volvo puller is the way to get the gears off...or a simple 3 jaw for the cam gear and you'll have to fab a puller for the crank gear (a steering wheel puller does work). Head work has been covered to death...and is a good idea. Tinus Tuning's TT4 or KG Trimning KG-17 is what I usually do for "wake up" cams.
Canuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 01:14 PM   #4
240240
Sit on SantaWookie's lap
 
240240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: In that neighborhood with the 240 on the jackstands & where tax rate is 1/2 paycheck; la habra, CA
Default

Stock D cam for streetness.

What fuel system are you going with? Carbs. Kjets djets turbojets 11000rpm jets?

Aaaand what gearing is in your rear end?

If you're doing a reliable budget build. Just state 0 everything and don't worry about any fancy pants headwork.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240240 View Post
Any thread about cut springs, & or +T on a college students budget shall be sent to OT, flogged for 24 hours, participants in said thread shall point the OP in the correct thread link while simultaneously shaming them
240240 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 01:21 PM   #5
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck View Post
The Volvo puller is the way to get the gears off...or a simple 3 jaw for the cam gear and you'll have to fab a puller for the crank gear (a steering wheel puller does work). Head work has been covered to death...and is a good idea. Tinus Tuning's TT4 or KG Trimning KG-17 is what I usually do for "wake up" cams.
I use a 3 jaw for steel or aluminum cam gears... hammer for fiber

The crank... thats a fun one, it has 2 holes that are threaded, and the steering wheel puller works great, but if you dont have one, a 2 jaw puller with L brackets bolted to the gear works well.

Head work alone (3 angle valve job, cleaned up intake ports, and exhaust restriction removed) will wake up the boat motor, but the cam will bring on the pep. The KG-17 ^ plays nice with SU's, but if you're budget is super tight a D cam will be better than the boat cam, not much, but better. If you have a little bit of cash the schneider cams are pretty sweet. Personally I like to rev the piss out of these old pushrod blocks, so my first choice would be a schneider 264F or 274F depending on other mods. For a streeter, the 264F is probably the better choice.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
Build it, break it, build what broke stronger, lather, rinse, repeat.

The Build Thread
SVEA - PUSHROD TURBO!
cwdodson88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 01:39 PM   #6
carbonmike
Board Member
 
carbonmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle
Default

I have a D cam with 10:1 or so compression with some light porting in my little old B18. Not exactly a powerhouse but makes for a fun drive. Nice wide powerband pulls nicely from a little below 2000 well past 6000.. I can easily maintain 60mph going up long 12% grades in 4th gear. 4.56 rear end helps there.
carbonmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 01:43 PM   #7
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonmike View Post
I have a D cam with 10:1 or so compression with some light porting in my little old B18. Not exactly a powerhouse but makes for a fun drive. Nice wide powerband pulls nicely from a little below 2000 well past 6000.. I can easily maintain 60mph going up long 12% grades in 4th gear. 4.56 rear end helps there.
the 4.56 rear will def bring on the pep
cwdodson88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 01:45 PM   #8
carbonmike
Board Member
 
carbonmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
the 4.56 rear will def bring on the pep
Sometimes I feel like it pulls harder in 2nd than in 1st. In 1st gear it seems to take more energy to get the flywheel going than the rest of the car.
carbonmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 01:52 PM   #9
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonmike View Post
Sometimes I feel like it pulls harder in 2nd than in 1st. In 1st gear it seems to take more energy to get the flywheel going than the rest of the car.
yeah, first is just for smoke,but second... Its just tall enough to use the whole power band...

Its kinda weird now that I'm running boost through it, I thought that I'd just be rippin out of first, but I can just barely get the boost going, like 5psi by 5500, but second I can roll into the throttle from 5mph, and hold 8psi from 2500, its almost like the turbo knows that first is useless
cwdodson88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 01:53 PM   #10
sspony
Board Member
 
sspony's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland
Default

Wow, awesome response so far! Forgot how much I appreciated/enjoyed this site.

Anyway I'll be home shortly and will snap some pics of the crusty motor haha. Also taking a caliper to the cylinders.

As for the crank gear, it's kinda weird I'll get a pic.
sspony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:08 PM   #11
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspony View Post
As for the crank gear, it's kinda weird I'll get a pic.
The crank gear should be same as any, the timing cover might have an external water pump thingy over the cam gear, but the innerds are all the same.
cwdodson88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:12 PM   #12
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default


cwdodson88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:13 PM   #13
sspony
Board Member
 
sspony's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland
Default

The crank gear has three holes in the face. Unthreaded if I remember correctly.

Edit: yup that's it in the second pic.
sspony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:21 PM   #14
carbonmike
Board Member
 
carbonmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
yeah, first is just for smoke,but second... Its just tall enough to use the whole power band...

Its kinda weird now that I'm running boost through it, I thought that I'd just be rippin out of first, but I can just barely get the boost going, like 5psi by 5500, but second I can roll into the throttle from 5mph, and hold 8psi from 2500, its almost like the turbo knows that first is useless
With a N/A B-18, the only smoke I am going to make is if my head gasket goes.
carbonmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:23 PM   #15
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspony View Post
The crank gear has three holes in the face. Unthreaded if I remember correctly.

Edit: yup that's it in the second pic.
ok, I forgot that theres the sleeve blocking the holes a bit, when I took my crank to the machine shop they somehow got the sleeve off... in your case a jaw puller will work, but you need to take the crank out of the block (attaching the flywheel to the crank and setting the crank nose up using the flywheel as a base), then I would hit the gear with a little heat, then as it cools fill the sleeve with PBlaster, and the 3 jaw puller, but remember that the sleeve will come off the crank too and you DO NOT want to scratch or chunk it up.
cwdodson88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:26 PM   #16
carbonmike
Board Member
 
carbonmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle
Default

I removed the cam gear by backing off the nut and tapping on the cam. Then putting spacers between the gear and the bearing plate as it slides off. Failure to do so could shift the cam out of the bearings or hit the freeze plug behind it. This will probably bend the brass bearing plate, but that should be replaced anyway.

I removed my crank pulley with a DIY puller, just some bar stock with some holes drilled it it. Two bolts to thread into the gear. If I remember correctly I just backed out the bolt in the crank to push the gear off.

All redneck solutions. Not ideal but it will all work with basic tools.
carbonmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:29 PM   #17
carbonmike
Board Member
 
carbonmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
ok, I forgot that theres the sleeve blocking the holes a bit, when I took my crank to the machine shop they somehow got the sleeve off... in your case a jaw puller will work, but you need to take the crank out of the block (attaching the flywheel to the crank and setting the crank nose up using the flywheel as a base), then I would hit the gear with a little heat, then as it cools fill the sleeve with PBlaster, and the 3 jaw puller, but remember that the sleeve will come off the crank too and you DO NOT want to scratch or chunk it up.
I was able to get my sleeve off with very little force. I think I used a wide putty knife to start it, then a chunk of brass to pry it off the rest of the way.
carbonmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:29 PM   #18
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonmike View Post
With a N/A B-18, the only smoke I am going to make is if my head gasket goes.
lol, I found it pretty head turning when my b18 was NA to try some burnouts at the local car club events..... anything under 3500 and dumping the clutch and I'd just barely chirp a tire, trying to brakestand was useless unless I hit it at 4k.
cwdodson88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:43 PM   #19
carbonmike
Board Member
 
carbonmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
lol, I found it pretty head turning when my b18 was NA to try some burnouts at the local car club events..... anything under 3500 and dumping the clutch and I'd just barely chirp a tire, trying to brakestand was useless unless I hit it at 4k.
I have a dry rotted spare that is probably original. I bet I could burn that up.
carbonmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 02:50 PM   #20
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

sspony - I have a spare head b20 carb head that you can have to practice on if you want to try porting on your own.
cwdodson88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 03:09 PM   #21
carbonmike
Board Member
 
carbonmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle
Default

I have a junk cracked EFI head that I got for practice porting. Free to anyone who will pay for shipping.

A few beers gave me the confidence to just dive into my freshly machined head. I just used a dremel, going was slow, but on purpose. Closely studied every port picture Canuck ever posted. Very happy with the results.
carbonmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 03:32 PM   #22
hiperfauto
Board Member
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

A couple of screwdrivers in the holes of the crank gear is usually good enough to get under the spacer sleeve and pry it up if you don't have access to the factory tool. It fits inside the sleeve and expands to grab it.

The crank gear will probably require a puller. They're usually on there pretty tight. I have the IPD puller, but a steering wheel puller will work as well. The gear installer is nice to have. Before I got the tool I used to hammer the gear onto the crank, but the tool does it without the possibility of damage. There's a different tool for 6 and 8 bolt cranks.

Use a pair of pry bars on opposite sides to remove the cam gear. The fiber gear might break, but you should change it anyway. The factory tool sucks for removing the gear. It's difficult to find a location where all three legs can fully engage the holes in the gear and if they aren't, the tool will slip. Even when fully engaged, the legs will bend and the tool will slip if the gear is really tight on the cam. The cam gear install tool on the other hand, works really well.

hiperfauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 04:26 PM   #23
Bobbyz
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Park Rapids MN
Default

The B20 in my 66 220 is an AQ130. Had a B20 from a parts car with a cracked cylinder but it was a low mile Volvo rebuild.
Boat engine was stock bore with an 8 bolt crank. So I had the boat block bored to fit the .03 pistons from the car block and used the 6 bolt crank.

The boat head had bigger valves than the carb car head and hardened seats. The machine shop drilled the boat head like the car head. Pretty simple stuff really.

I think the only "mod" the block needed was removing one pin that located the boat timing cover.

If you have the 8 bolt crank my boat engine came with a flywheel that looked just like a regular flywheel. A pressure plate would bolt right to it. Exept the dammed thing was rusted to the point I wouldn't use it. I also had no use for the heavy 8 bolt rods.

The steel cam gears alone were worth the 60 bucks the AQ130 cost! Hardened exhaust seats were a bonus. Might be better flowing heads but it's plenty snappy for me.

Throw the dual downdraft boat carbs and junk in the scrap heap. Or sell them to some moron who wants to put them on a car. SUs are the way to go.

Don't rember how much the deck and head had to milled. The deck is flush with the pistons now anyway.

In retrospect just sleeving my original B20 might have been easier. But being able to tell people it's got a boat engine is worth something.
Bobbyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 04:37 PM   #24
Redwood Chair
K-jet For Life
 
Redwood Chair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspony View Post
The crank gear has two holes threaded 5/16 UNC .
FTFY

__________________
Raise The Lowered


Image hosted by servimg.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi a stock can support?


Last edited by Redwood Chair; 01-22-2016 at 07:15 PM..
Redwood Chair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:58 PM   #25
Canuck
Frozen Garage Hell
 
Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge, AB, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
If you have a little bit of cash the schneider cams are pretty sweet. Personally I like to rev the piss out of these old pushrod blocks, so my first choice would be a schneider 264F or 274F depending on other mods. For a streeter, the 264F is probably the better choice.
I've put a few 274's in engines over the years. When I contacted Schneider last year, they were not selling their grinds at that time. Maybe things have changed, they still list them on their website. Has anyone bought one in the last year?
Canuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.