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Old 01-23-2016, 04:56 PM   #51
OttoB
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Originally Posted by volvorelix View Post
I sent a B20 cam to them to be reground about a week ago. When I talked to Jerry over the phone, he didn't say much about lack of availability *except* that they don't have Volvo blanks on hand. Gotta send yours in.

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Late (74 ->) cams are way better than older ones. Older are just cast, newer Wizeman cam has hardened surface.
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Old 01-23-2016, 11:35 PM   #52
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[QUOTE=cwdodson88;5324222]I have a new c cam, its got some shelf wear, but it will clean/polish up nicely, also I have a set if IPD "Hi rev" lifters and pushrods that are slightly used, but again a little polish on the face and they'd be good as new.

I'll message you on this Chris.
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:08 PM   #53
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When removing the cam/crank gear does it matter which you pull first?

Also how do I ID the cam? Really need to get batteries for my calipers!!!
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:18 PM   #54
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It doesn't matter which gear you first.

The cam should be marked on the back. Sometimes they're marked on the front too.
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Old 01-24-2016, 03:14 PM   #55
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[QUOTE=sspony;5324481]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
I have a new c cam, its got some shelf wear, but it will clean/polish up nicely, also I have a set if IPD "Hi rev" lifters and pushrods that are slightly used, but again a little polish on the face and they'd be good as new.

I'll message you on this Chris.
Just a few bucks a piece...why reuse lifters? Best way to wipe a cam I can think of.
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Old 01-24-2016, 03:37 PM   #56
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Still can't see the part of the head that sticks out over the front of the block. The car water pump sits under it with a couple of rubber rings to seal the two holes.
Kinda looks like one hole is plugged and the other has a bolt or plug in it.
Makes me think it's a car head someone put on? Or maybe the older Penta heads were drilled like a car and plugged?
No big deal as long as it seals against the water pump.
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Old 01-24-2016, 05:30 PM   #57
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[QUOTE=Canuck;5324671]
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Just a few bucks a piece...why reuse lifters? Best way to wipe a cam I can think of.
He mentioned that he was on a tight budget here. Refacing the lifters is not difficult, just time consuming, these have only been run for 800-1000 miles and have very little wear. I wouldn't hesitate to resurface and use then again.

And sspony- the new lifters are cheap, 90$ for the set including shipping. And I'd be more than happy to split the pushrods/lifters. I know how hard it is to get from a-b on a budget.
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Old 01-24-2016, 05:56 PM   #58
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Thanks cwdodson88! Still trying to get any idea of what shape this motor is in. I'll know more about what I want to do with it as I tear it down.

Bobbyz, I'll try to take a closer look at the head. It's been apart before but I can't tell if any machine work was done yet. Possible someone could have swapped heads. Anyone have any info on the number I showed in the pic?
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:27 PM   #59
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following, interesting build.

also

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Peppy is good enough. Reliability is important.
this . ^ 100%
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Old 01-24-2016, 07:50 PM   #60
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Should be able to post measurements tomorrow evening. Plan to measure the following:

1) Overall head thickness
2) Intake/exhaust valves
3) Cylinder bore


Let me know if I'm forgetting anything. Thanks again for the help/input/info!
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:42 PM   #61
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Do you have access to a lifter resurfacing machine? You know that these things are ground on a precise radius, right? If they are "flat" you'll wipe the cam.

[QUOTE=cwdodson88;5324729]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck View Post

He mentioned that he was on a tight budget here. Refacing the lifters is not difficult, just time consuming, these have only been run for 800-1000 miles and have very little wear. I wouldn't hesitate to resurface and use then again.

And sspony- the new lifters are cheap, 90$ for the set including shipping. And I'd be more than happy to split the pushrods/lifters. I know how hard it is to get from a-b on a budget.
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Old 01-24-2016, 10:52 PM   #62
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Unfortunately I do not. I would have to have the machine shop do the resurface or buy new ones.
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:14 AM   #63
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Here are some ROUGH measurements...

1) Overall head thickness: 87mm (3.45")
2) Intake/exhaust valves: 41.25/35.5mm (I was rushing, could be a little off)
3) Cylinder bore: 88.6mm (3.5" which appears to be stock)
4) Combustion chamber: 90mm


So, what do I have haha. Everything appear to be stock? Any idea which model b20 this is or what vintage? Thanks

Edit: put a call in to the machine shop, they're going to work on some pricing for the following:

1) Hot tank/chemical clean the block and head
2) Mic and check valves,springs,keepers, push rods, connecting rods, pistons, crank, etc.
3) Hone, deck the block
4) Shave the head
5) 3-angle valve job
6) hardened valve seats

Guess we'll see where they come in...

Last edited by sspony; 01-25-2016 at 10:44 AM..
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:01 AM   #64
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Ok the local shop got back to me pretty quickly.

Block and head (and associated assemblies):
- clean
- magnaflux
- mic
- inspect

=$475


To have it:
- honed
- 3 angle valve job
- hardened exhaust seats
- crank polished
- re-ringed
- head shaved
- block decked
- head and block assembled

Is another $325

So total is $800 and that doesn't include parts. What are the thoughts on pricing?
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:36 AM   #65
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No idea where my detailed bill is now. But it was around two grand out the door.
That included.
Boring, modding the boat head. (drilling, taping, plugging)
The parts to put it together. (didn't expect him to find those but it was nice)
It was ready to assemble when I picked it up.

Also 200 or so my worthless brother owed him for a couple of years. Didn't want to pay it and he said I didn't have to but the he's my worthless brother.

If your shop is like mine take the estimate and figure it's low. Getting it done right is worth paying for.
If you have a "rich" brother maybe he'll pay for it.
(only my worthless brother thinks I'm rich)
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:55 AM   #66
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If it's a budget build, that first $475 is not really worthwhile in my opinion. I have built lord only knows how many of these engines over the years and I clean them myself as the machine shop(s) I've worked with always cut corners. Magniflux for cracks - never seen one that was cracked. You're not even looking for a big bore (in which case you sonic check the bores for core shift) - so a quick glaze break and you're done. Deck the block based on your HG thickness (look for around 30 thou). Compression ratio is all in the head, flow is all in the seat.

I'm rarely out of the machine shop without dropping $1400 for the basics. There is no one that would assemble the bottom end and head etc for that sort of money that is going over every detail. There is no rocket science to assembly - but around here the shops start at $1200 for bottom end assembly (estimating 12 hours). Slapping it together is not really the road to glory. For example, it takes me around 5-6 hours just to paint blocks. Add in another 2 just to run a tap through all the holes and clean out the gunk.

I wrote a how to a few years ago.

http://calgaryvolvoclub.com/forum/vi...hp?f=12&t=2699

This is the engine that is rolling out of my garage this weekend. 25 hours of assembly.

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Old 01-25-2016, 12:40 PM   #67
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Canuck, I must admit I was already beginning to think the same thing. For what I'm doing it doesn't need to be excessive. It's not a show piece, it's not a race car. It's a driver that I'll put 4-5k miles on a year during the nicer months. I was thinking clean it up, all new bearings, hone (de-glaze) the cylinders, new rings, deck the block. Then valve job, exhaust seats, shave the head. Maybe a cam/lifters. New oil/water/fuel pumps. Put it back together and run it.

I have a few other things going on right now and can't swing 2-3k for a rebuild. This isn't my "fast" car. I just want to be able to enjoy it. Is what I'm describing a waste of time or can a reasonable motor be built this low key?
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:46 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspony View Post
Canuck, I must admit I was already beginning to think the same thing. For what I'm doing it doesn't need to be excessive. It's not a show piece, it's not a race car. It's a driver that I'll put 4-5k miles on a year during the nicer months. I was thinking clean it up, all new bearings, hone (de-glaze) the cylinders, new rings, deck the block. Then valve job, exhaust seats, shave the head. Maybe a cam/lifters. New oil/water/fuel pumps. Put it back together and run it.

I have a few other things going on right now and can't swing 2-3k for a rebuild. This isn't my "fast" car. I just want to be able to enjoy it. Is what I'm describing a waste of time or can a reasonable motor be built this low key?
I'd say yes it can be done, but you are going to have to be very selective on what you have someone else do.

Edit: 800 sounds reasonable.
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:53 PM   #69
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So what are some good methods for me to get the crusty pistons/valves cleaned up?
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:11 PM   #70
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send me $50.00 and wait 2 weeks

Edit: remove and clean the block and have it checked out. Make sure it doesnt need to be oversized. Basically thats what I would start with. My block needed to be .020 minimum, so I have a useless set of standard pistons. My machinist told me that someone had been in there before, the pistons had been knurled... So I sprung for a set of .020 pistons, with rings and clips. I'm just waiting for his AG machining load to calm down before I have him bore and deck my block, so that will be about Feb when all the farmers start using their new stuff and quit hogging my machinists time.

Last edited by cwdodson88; 01-25-2016 at 02:16 PM..
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:16 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck View Post
If it's a budget build, that first $475 is not really worthwhile in my opinion. I have built lord only knows how many of these engines over the years and I clean them myself as the machine shop(s) I've worked with always cut corners. Magniflux for cracks - never seen one that was cracked. You're not even looking for a big bore (in which case you sonic check the bores for core shift) - so a quick glaze break and you're done. Deck the block based on your HG thickness (look for around 30 thou). Compression ratio is all in the head, flow is all in the seat.

I'm rarely out of the machine shop without dropping $1400 for the basics. There is no one that would assemble the bottom end and head etc for that sort of money that is going over every detail. There is no rocket science to assembly - but around here the shops start at $1200 for bottom end assembly (estimating 12 hours). Slapping it together is not really the road to glory. For example, it takes me around 5-6 hours just to paint blocks. Add in another 2 just to run a tap through all the holes and clean out the gunk.

I wrote a how to a few years ago.

http://calgaryvolvoclub.com/forum/vi...hp?f=12&t=2699

This is the engine that is rolling out of my garage this weekend. 25 hours of assembly.

Are you making those headers?
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:35 PM   #72
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Secrets, secrets... You should be a nice guy and share your techniques. I was thinking about trying the mopar combustion chamber cleaner. Here's a link to a review for this stuff.

http://revlimiter.net/blog/2011/04/c...s-like-a-boss/
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:44 PM   #73
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for cleaning, I really havent found anything sooper bitchin, but white vinegar works ok, then soft brass brushes, or heavy nylon. Pushing the piston with rusty bores is a no no.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:18 PM   #74
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I've done a few of the shade tree type rebuilds over the years. Glaze breaker type hone, new rings, gaskets, bearings and a valve job.
Since it's a boat engine it probably doesn't have a lot of run time. Mine sure didn't being from Minnesota.
I didn't want the 8 bolt crank with the stupid heavy rods and I wanted the deck milled. Otherwise it could have been cleaned up and run pretty much as is.
With a better cam I used a C because the one in the car block looked pretty good. (might regret that)
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:34 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by sspony View Post
Secrets, secrets... You should be a nice guy and share your techniques. I was thinking about trying the mopar combustion chamber cleaner. Here's a link to a review for this stuff.

http://revlimiter.net/blog/2011/04/c...s-like-a-boss/
OK - I'm going to advise that you use carb cleaner for all piston cleaning...it stinks to high heaven and it toxic...but in 1/2 hour you go from this.



To this.



I keep a few broken rings around to use to carefully scrape the coke out of the ring lands.
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