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Old 01-25-2016, 07:54 PM   #76
AndrewNance
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I might be the only one who thinks $475 sounds high for a cleaning and inspection. Last time I did a complete rebuild, I think I had about $550 in ALL of the machine work for the head and block including new cam bearings, machining for double valve springs, and a full balance including the flywheel/clutch. They aren't state-of-the-art engines. Any bubba should be able to get it right.

I highly suggest assembling it yourself. There are more than enough people in this thread alone who can answer your questions and when you're done, you'll know how to do it again.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:59 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by AndrewNance View Post
I might be the only one who thinks $475 sounds high for a cleaning and inspection. Last time I did a complete rebuild, I think I had about $550 in ALL of the machine work for the head and block including new cam bearings, machining for double valve springs, and a full balance including the flywheel/clutch. They aren't state-of-the-art engines. Any bubba should be able to get it right.
Nope - I mentioned it earlier in the thread. You're getting machining at a big discount vs what I can find it for in my part of the world. Most of our engine machine shops have closed down due to crate engines and guys not bothering to build anymore. An average HEAD costs me $500 for surfacing/valve job/new guides...I've always done the double spring machining myself as I can check the install height for the springs I'm using and make sure the seat pressure is what I want.
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:05 PM   #78
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That's crazy how different it can be. I just like the backwoods good ol' boys at this place not too far from me. They don't get many European parts in there but the knowledge sort of transfers I guess. The last head I took there was from my 940t and it ran $120 for resurface and a valve job. Mind you this is the kind of place that doesn't even write receipts. I'm just saying that this particular rebuild sounds a lot like my old B20. A few subtle upgrades but you just want it to drive nicely.
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Old 01-25-2016, 10:41 PM   #79
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Your on to it Andrew!
Ok... I poked around the engine a bit more and thought things over. Warning: This is the part where the purists need to un-subscribe and look away haha. I have far too many projects going on right now, and just like everyone else I lack the time/funds for all of them. That being said the 122 is almost not drive-able with it running so poorly. In my opinion the worst thing you can do to a car is let it sit, it seems to accelerate the disintegration process haha. I really enjoy running around town and on the back roads in this car. Its not a show car, its not a race car, its a fun cruiser that I enjoy and I would really like to have it on the road if possible. I don't want to let it sit in the driveway. That would be a waste.

I had previously picked up a set of stock size deves rings, all new bearings and a new clutch at a good price and took the gamble that the motor was within tolerance. Looks like I may be lucking out! The cylinder walls appear to be in good shape, just a bit dry and dirty. I started to clean the pistons and on the face they all appear to be in good shape as well (except the one I scratched a little bit, whoops). It looks like the head has been off the block, but I dont believe the engine has been machined or rebuilt. So here's my cringe worthy plan...

Bottom end:
1) Tear the motor all the way down and inspect for any significant issues (Free)
2) Have a machine shop hot tank, hone and deck the block (Trying to find a cheaper one. As Andrew said a simple hone and deck should be basic and cheap on a inline 4 cylinder)
3) Install all new bearings/rings and re-assemble the bottom end myself. (Already have these parts)
4) Install new oil pump (Already have this)
5) Install newer style rear main seal (Already have this part)
6) Inspect cam/lifters and reuse or find a good deal on a mild cam (c cam?) with new lifters.

Top End:
1) Clean valves and reuse
2) Shave the head
3) Three-angle and hardened exhaust seats

Then use everything I can from the current b18 to get this thing on the road. Plugs, Wires, Dizzy, Electronic ignition, etc.

Hoping to come out of this for about $300-350 not counting the parts I already have. Should be doable unless I need to upgrade the came. Not even sure whats in this thing still.
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Last edited by sspony; 01-25-2016 at 10:59 PM..
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:47 AM   #80
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Like I said (or did I?) the boat engine probably has very little actual use on it. Mine sure didn't had I wanted the 8 bolt crank and heavy rods it wouldn't have taken much to get it running.
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:36 AM   #81
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Like I said (or did I?) the boat engine probably has very little actual use on it. Mine sure didn't had I wanted the 8 bolt crank and heavy rods it wouldn't have taken much to get it running.
You did say haha. Are you suggesting I just clean the bottom end and run as is? Mine is already a 6 bolt crank so that's not a concern of mine.

I'll call and get prices for the simple machine work I mentioned earlier.

What cams came in the 6 bolt AQ130's?

Also does anyone have the details on modding the marine head to accept the automotive water pump. You mentioned you had done it Bobbyz...and details/tips?

Last edited by sspony; 01-26-2016 at 06:57 AM..
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:49 AM   #82
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Talked to another machine shop I've worked with in the past. A little more like the one Andrewnance mentioned haha. Here's the pricing they gave me:

Block:
- Hot tank $40
- Deck $40
- Hone $10/cylinder

Head: $200-250
- Hot tank
- Shave
- 3 angle valve job
- Hardened exhaust seats

Total: $320-$370
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:26 AM   #83
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I'd pull the bottom end apart and look at it. On a boat it's probably fine because most boats sit in storage or tied to the dock. But maybe they never changed or even checked the oil? The condition of the bearings tells alot there.

Head mods on mine were simply setting a car head next to it and drilling, tapping or plugging as needed. I could've done that on my drill press but I had the shop do it.
The only "problem" was where the heat gage sender goes into the head on the back. He only had a pipe tap but the parts store has fittings with different threads so that was easy enough. Bought a bag of different adapters for like ten bucks.
From what I see of your head it's different than mine. Once you get it side by side with a car head you'll see what it needs.

My block had all the "car" holes drilled and tapped. Just had to remove one locating pin on the timing cover.

Can't say on your cam. Did a bunch of Google searching on mine and found out it's not something you want in a car.
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Old 01-26-2016, 10:43 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspony View Post
Talked to another machine shop I've worked with in the past. A little more like the one Andrewnance mentioned haha. Here's the pricing they gave me:

Block:
- Hot tank $40
- Deck $40
- Hone $10/cylinder

Head: $200-250
- Hot tank
- Shave
- 3 angle valve job
- Hardened exhaust seats

Total: $320-$370
This number sounds better. A lot closer to what my guy charges.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:36 AM   #85
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What about running new chevy lifters (#SUM-HT992) with the isky pushrods (#VL123) and a C cam? Seems like a straight forward and affordable option. Thoughts?
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:52 AM   #86
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Anyone got the measurements? Lifters look good, pushrods might be short.... Not sure
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:55 PM   #87
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I suppose another option is to buy new stock lifters and reuse my pushrods paired with that c-cam you have.

So one thing that's confusing me is the pushrod length. When I deck the block, shave the head and use a thinner head gasket won't that bring the rocker arm closer to the cam? So wouldn't I need a shorter pushrod or lifter to compensate for the shorter distance.

Sorry if it's a dumb question. Novice.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:08 PM   #88
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I suppose another option is to buy new stock lifters and reuse my pushrods paired with that c-cam you have.

So one thing that's confusing me is the pushrod length. When I deck the block, shave the head and use a thinner head gasket won't that bring the rocker arm closer to the cam? So wouldn't I need a shorter pushrod or lifter to compensate for the shorter distance.

Sorry if it's a dumb question. Novice.
Depending on how much you shave/deck, maybe, there is a bit of adjustment to be made out if the rocker adjusters.

and its not a dumb question at all.

I would do the block, and head, then when you degree in your cam, you can measure for pushrods, drop a stock lifter in the bore, set the head on, drop a pushrod in and mock up the rocker assembly. Check the adjusters for travel. Stock might work, but its all going to depend on shaving/decking.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:27 PM   #89
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I wish there was an engine building 101 class around here haha. I've rebuilt automatic transmissions but never a motor.

I'm a visual learner so reading about how to degree a cam just doesn't quite do it haha.

Feeling intimidated by the build guys.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:27 PM   #90
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What about running new chevy lifters (#SUM-HT992) with the isky pushrods (#VL123) and a C cam? Seems like a straight forward and affordable option. Thoughts?
That is what I was going to do with mine, but then ran across a new KG Trimming cam/lifters at a reasonable price already over here. The cam in the car is an Isky street performance and I want a longer life out of it, so I was backing off the cam anyway. I have no clue what they did or did not do correctly, but the cam was only in 10K when I bought the car.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:33 PM   #91
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You should be fine decking the block a little. I had .080" taken off of an F head and didn't need to change anything. That's still taller than an E head from the factory, IIRC. The only necessary change for me was double valve springs and that was only because of the higher lift cam.

Edit: I can't remember if that's taller than an E head actually. The thickness of the two heads is floating around here somewhere.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:46 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by sspony View Post
I wish there was an engine building 101 class around here haha. I've rebuilt automatic transmissions but never a motor.

I'm a visual learner so reading about how to degree a cam just doesn't quite do it haha.

Feeling intimidated by the build guys.
you dont have to degree in a b20 cam, you can slightly play with the power curve by doing so.
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:01 PM   #93
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Yeah so I looked back over my notes and the pushrods are the VL123 from Isky...

So a question, whats your budget looking like?
I've got:
~$400.00 in machine work
~$100.00 for a cam
~$150.00 for gaskets
all other parts paid for, right?
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:16 PM   #94
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I currently have the following:

-oil pump
-cheap gasket kit (has a head gasket but I don't plan to use it)
-rod/main bearings (stock)
-wrist pin bushings (stock)
-deves rings (stock)
-updated rear main seal/housing
-Sachs clutch kit

I'm guessing...
$350 for machine work
$40 for chevy lifters
$100 for isky push rods
$100 for cam
$80 for water/fuel pump
$??? For carb needles
$100 for fluids and other misc

Total:$770

Last edited by sspony; 01-26-2016 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:25 PM   #95
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what head gasket do you have, and what are you planning to use?
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:29 PM   #96
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what head gasket do you have, and what are you planning to use?
Can't remember, it's just some cheap one that came in a kit. And the gasket will depend on how much I deck/shave I suppose.
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:31 PM   #97
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was the kit for a b20 carb, or FI... what brand Elring?
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:07 PM   #98
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Learning so much in this thread. -thumbs up-
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:15 PM   #99
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Can't remember, it's just some cheap one that came in a kit. And the gasket will depend on how much I deck/shave I suppose.
I think you are going to want to use the thinner ones, .035 or whatever they are. Not much point in decking the block and putting in a thick head gasket. You should measure your chambers, but just skimming the head and you will probably still be in the 8.5:1 range and good with low octane.

I don't think Volvo used the piston to deck values in their published CR values, so decking the block and using the right gasket is most likely to just get you to where the engine should be.

I would recommend milling the head for higher compression, it made a big difference in the low end on my B18. You could run a D cam or larger and still get a nice torquey motor that would have a little more pep at higher revs.
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:17 PM   #100
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It's a "Payen" gasket kit for a b20a. Made in England. Looks old school.
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