home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-02-2017, 04:19 AM   #1
IWantedAnAE86
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Default b230ft 9mm piston/rod to 13mm possible?

I wanted to know if a 13mm piston/rod combo off a '90+ b230ft would bolt directly up to the bottom end of a pre '89 b230ft block? Are there any differences in the dimensions? Or any differences in the compression ratios? Or would one have to swap the whole engine/bottom end thanks.
IWantedAnAE86 is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 04:29 AM   #2
classicswede
Volvo upgrades
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North Wales
Default

You can just swap the rods if you want. For the price of a set of H beams why not just go the hole hog?
classicswede is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 05:42 AM   #3
IWantedAnAE86
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Default

I was planning on just ripping out a set from a junk yard, I'm trying to do all of this as cheap as possible. Plus I don't have the tools for a complete swap. Any info on the compression ratio?
IWantedAnAE86 is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 08:57 AM   #4
PromiseRing
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Pretty sure compression won't be affected at all.

I too have a question on this subject. Do you just reuse your rod bearings that came with your engine (i.e., you're *only* swapping in the rods)? Should you plastigauge each rod when installed?
__________________
Current
-93' 244 m47-iPd sways, 13c, iPd cam, 2.5” straight pipe
-93' 245 m47-iPd sways, T-cam
-88' 245 m47-Welded diff, gutted, 13g
Past
-80' 242gt m46-
PromiseRing is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:03 AM   #5
CAPT_BLOTTO
#Crush It
 
CAPT_BLOTTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kansas City
Default

The pistons are matched to the block bore size with a letter.
__________________
Hello My Glorious!

Junkyard Parts request thread!
Mesquite FB page! Constant updates!

Da Yellow Sold | $800 245 | 77 244
CAPT_BLOTTO is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:17 AM   #6
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

just swap the rods to the old pistons, make sure to number em.
__________________
"They bum rushed them in their own crib, they drank all their beer, they partied with their ladies and they left with the trophy"

Now with in-house Dyno tuning!

Megasquirt Tuning!
Plug and play LH 2.4 Megasquirt, now with stealth mode!
linuxman51 is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 01:12 PM   #7
Kjets On a Plane
Devoid of Luxury
 
Kjets On a Plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: OR
Default

.17c/hr much?

No cheap 13mm rod engines around?

Can be swapped though.
__________________
How PSI a stock can support?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
If you send me $20 I'll send you a how-to explaining how to make $20 from people on the internet.

Last edited by Kjets On a Plane; 03-02-2017 at 05:41 PM..
Kjets On a Plane is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:57 AM   #8
240240
Volvo ruined my Life
 
240240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: In that neighborhood with the 240 on the jackstands & where tax rate is 1/2 paycheck; la habra, CA
Default

This sounds expensive
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240240 View Post
Any thread about cut springs, & or +T on a college students budget shall be sent to OT, flogged for 24 hours, participants in said thread shall point the OP in the correct thread link while simultaneously shaming them
240240 is online now  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:56 PM   #9
ryan242v
Board Member
 
ryan242v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: va beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantedAnAE86 View Post
Plus I don't have the tools for a complete swap.
If you have the tools to pull pistons and rods you have enough tools to just swap the long block or short block if trying to be extra cheap.

But, personally I can't understand why anyone would go through that effort and not just throw in H-beams with new bearings and rings. To each their own I suppose.
ryan242v is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:00 PM   #10
Tfrasca
Board Member
 
Tfrasca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Aptos, CA
Default

Yeah. Seems crazy to pull it completely apart and not do bearings and rings at least...
Tfrasca is online now  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:01 PM   #11
ryan242v
Board Member
 
ryan242v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: va beach
Default

Plus.........my local PnP lists a rod and piston for $20, $80 for the set. A short block isn't much more expensive, will save time and was professionally built.
ryan242v is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:45 PM   #12
Shifted
C&M '17 Survivor
 
Shifted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Hill, Shinshu Japan
Default

.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME II View Post
Without mistakes there is no learning.
"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

Last edited by Shifted; 06-13-2017 at 01:57 PM.. Reason: nvm...
Shifted is online now  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:58 PM   #13
MDVLN
Kapitän Klugscheißer
 
MDVLN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Varies
Default

another stealthy 240240 bump...
MDVLN is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 02:13 PM   #14
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPT_BLOTTO View Post
The pistons are matched to the block bore size with a letter.
Bear in mind that is important at time of manufacturing the stuff...

A block is machined, bore is dial-bore gauged and the worker sees 96.001mm so he reaches over and satmps in a A, checks the next hole--stamps another A, next hole Oh wait 96.002..Stamps a B..last hole an A (or grade 1/2/3/4...I have seen on Cadillac blocks grades A thru M)

(and same time somebody check mainline bore and splashes a little red or bluse paint indicating the size of the bore for the main bearings.)

Then somebody looks in the rack of piston sets and sees Oh how nifty 3 grade A and one grade B and drops them in the corresponding holes.. The piston grades can me a couple of 1/10,000

After anybody has driven the motor for couple thousand miles that is meaningless....

Ever notice we don't but pistons by the 1/10,000 th? or main bearings with .0001 bigger OD?

Don't overwhelm this guy...keep it simple..like this:

Yes change rods and noting else changes, then you'll have just scary weak rods

rather than fawkin nuts they-have-to-be-kidding little soda-straws.

And yeah going to the wrecking yard and grovelling under an engine and pulling the head and wasting tons of time is a much better use of time and money than just buying a set for $20+postage.
__________________
John Vanlandingham/JVAB Imports
Sleezattle WA, USA

--> CALL (206) 431-9696<----

www.rallyrace.net/jvab

www.rallyanarchy.com

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

"When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?'"
— Don Marquis
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 03:48 PM   #15
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

The 13mm rods aren't THAT scary small. They'll be perfectly fine one a stock setup with 15psi.
culberro is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:20 PM   #16
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
The 13mm rods aren't THAT scary small. They'll be perfectly fine one a stock setup with 15psi.
You evidently don't mind a lot more DNFs on things you work on than I do..


They are ridiculous. They are one extreme and the old B21/23 rods are they other: so heavy that the weight alone cause problems..

I know you know everything, Robert, which is an amazing feat considering your extremely tender age and necessarily limited experience..are you even 30 yet??
...and I know you have virtually impregnible faith in your un-erring correctness.

But, how in the world have you come to be so confident?

Have you ever considered using any qualifying phrases, the ones that drive mediocre English teachers insane?
Qualifiers like "It seems" or "evidently", "I believe....", or just for you "In my limited experience" ?


You might try...
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:01 PM   #17
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

I'm glad you acknowledge my intelligence!

My post is based on my experience running 15psi on an 180k mile engine for 3 years, including numerous track days. it's also based on the b230 in the rally car that had similar miles and was constantly spun to 8k rpm on a stock bottom end.
What's your experience with b230FTs and b230s with 13mm rods?
culberro is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:17 PM   #18
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I'm glad you acknowledge my intelligence!

My post is based on my experience running 15psi on an 180k mile engine for 3 years, including numerous track days. it's also based on the b230 in the rally car that had similar miles and was constantly spun to 8k rpm on a stock bottom end.
What's your experience with b230FTs and b230s with 13mm rods?
Seeing lots of picces of rods sticking out of the sides of the blocks..

And comparison with other motors..There are other engines that get beat on..You look at them then look at a 13mm rod..
Like a lot of things its a simple matter of "compare and contrast", a great way of learning instead of just believing...

That and talking to engine builders who build serious things...
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:26 PM   #19
megulon-7
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: No Pants Island
Default

fake news
megulon-7 is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:36 PM   #20
James10952001
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA
Default

Even the 9mm rods aren't too bad, I had almost 320k on mine when the car was rear ended and I've seen some with more than that. The 13mm rods are downright bulletproof at reasonable power levels, they only break when someone either runs it out of oil or boosts the hell out of it. In terms of stock engines, the Volvo redblocks are very stout. Not many other engines out there are legendary for routinely going >300K miles with only basic maintenance. It's a Volvo, not a Ferrari, as much as I love them, an old Volvo is what it is. It was never intended as a high performance racer, instead it's just a good rugged car jam packed full of usefulness and safety. The turbos have enough pep to be fun while still retaining utility but it's never going to compete with a real sports car for all out performance.

If you want big power though everything changes. Big power = big money. By far the cheapest way to get 300+ horsepower is to drop in a smallblock V8. If you want to get that kind of power out of a Volvo motor it's going to cost you. Rod swap is possible but trust me when I say that a motor swap is much easier. You absolutely cannot change the rods without pulling the motor, the crossmember is in the way and prevents removing the oil pan. Once you swap the rods, you've got a tired old motor with stronger rods, if you're going to do the complete disassembly required for that job you may as well rebuild the whole thing. If you don't have the budget, tools and skills to do a motor swap then you don't have the budget, tools or skills to get the kind of power you want. It's that simple. If you want 300hp on a budget, buy an old Mustang, Camaro, etc, something with a 302 or 350 V8, there are TONS of aftermarket parts for those and you can probably get the whole car for what it will cost you to build the motor alone for a classic Volvo.
James10952001 is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 06:35 PM   #21
Tuff240
240 Ninja
 
Tuff240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
Seeing lots of picces of rods sticking out of the sides of the blocks..

And comparison with other motors..There are other engines that get beat on..You look at them then look at a 13mm rod..
Like a lot of things its a simple matter of "compare and contrast", a great way of learning instead of just believing...

That and talking to engine builders who build serious things...
So you looked at pictures and talked to people? Isn't that just regurgitating information?
Do you really have no experience running these motors yourself?
__________________
"The Parts Counter Guy"
Tuff240 is online now  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:19 PM   #22
Boris740
Broad Member
 
Boris740's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Aurora, Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
Seeing lots of picces of rods sticking out of the sides of the blocks..

And comparison with other motors..There are other engines that get beat on..You look at them then look at a 13mm rod..
Like a lot of things its a simple matter of "compare and contrast", a great way of learning instead of just believing...

That and talking to engine builders who build serious things...
My 13mm rods ended up like this:

http://www.viatrack.ca/Misc/IMG_8662.JPG

Than I bought H rods and pistons from you. That was some time ago. The car still runs great.
Boris740 is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:27 PM   #23
Tuff240
240 Ninja
 
Tuff240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris740 View Post
My 13mm rods ended up like this:

http://www.viatrack.ca/Misc/IMG_8662.JPG
They look perfectly fine, just turn the boost up a couple more psi.
Tuff240 is online now  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:34 PM   #24
cosbySweater
Board Member
 
cosbySweater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Monterey/Falun
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff240 View Post
They look perfectly fine, just turn the boost up a couple more psi.
Compensate for the compression reduction with more boost for sure. The way I see it, they are just bending to achieve that legendary 8.0:1 compression
__________________
1979 Volvo 244DL 6.0/4l80e,8.8,Ms3x goldbox ecu and Mircrosquirt tcu, s366 clone.
2005 Honda Civic Hybrid, 5 Speed
1994 Corvette, 6speed, PNP special, gonna pill it to kill it

Quote:
Originally Posted by bricktop420 View Post
Thank you very much everybody... i now feel sufficiently retarded and will go cry in the corner...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
How come we get a Cosby sweater but no Boner in sweatpants in this thread?
cosbySweater is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:51 PM   #25
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris740 View Post
My 13mm rods ended up like this:

http://www.viatrack.ca/Misc/IMG_8662.JPG

Than I bought H rods and pistons from you. That was some time ago. The car still runs great.

Well I remember you fondly and i remember the photo, but you're old! and I'm old.
Culbertson is not even 30, so he has confidence, the 13mm rods "are perfectly fine"..

Flat out statement, so even though you've posted evidence, even though by eye sees a pathetic weak design...Sorry, we're both wrong..

See that's how you learn stuff Boris, you just say "It's perfectly fine" and then the trolls come out and pile on... Isn't that how most advancements in human history are spread?
The standard of proof is "I haven't had problems with _________________" therefore there cannot be problems"
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.