home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-13-2017, 07:56 PM   #26
Tuff240
240 Ninja
 
Tuff240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
Well I remember you fondly and i remember the photo, but you're old! and I'm old.
Culbertson is not even 30, so he has confidence, the 13mm rods "are perfectly fine"..

Flat out statement, so even though you've posted evidence, even though by eye sees a pathetic weak design...Sorry, we're both wrong..

See that's how you learn stuff Boris, you just say "It's perfectly fine" and then the trolls come out and pile on... Isn't that how most advancements in human history are spread?
The standard of proof is "I haven't had problems with _________________" therefore there cannot be problems"
You are taking his words out of context. He said perfectly fine on a stock set up with moderate boost. Which, he is right. If you bend 13mm rods on a stock turbo at 15psi, it wasn't the rods fault.
__________________
"The Parts Counter Guy"
Tuff240 is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 08:04 PM   #27
James10952001
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA
Default

"Perfectly fine" is relative. For a 160HP motor the 13mm rods are perfectly fine, arguably so are the 9mm rods. For a 200HP motor they're probably still perfectly fine, provided you're not pinging. For 250HP you might be getting close to the ragged edge for even the 13mm rods but that's a more than 50% increase over the stock power level so who is surprised? Especially when you consider that it is an evolution of a 92-114 HP motor. It's not indicative of a design fault that an engine cannot tolerate sustained production of 50%+ more power than it was ever designed to produce. There is some headroom but at some point if you want to push the power far enough beyond the original design envelope, you have to modify the original design accordingly. The stock rods were designed to be an acceptable compromise of mass, cost and strength, and in a stock motor producing stock power levels they meet those design goals with room to spare.
James10952001 is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 08:57 PM   #28
gross polluter
They see me trollin'
 
gross polluter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cold Lake, AB
Default

Except there are many other engines out there that easily and reliably handle 5 times their rated power. By comparison, those make redblocks look like the turds they really are.
__________________
'88 245 - 2JZGTE VVTi | MS3X ECU, MS2 TCU | GT3582R-HTA | Staged simultaneous dual fuel | 590whp 580ftlbs @ 22psi

1968 Furd Rustang fastberk | 2JZGTE VVTi | MS3X ECU | PT6776S @ 18 psi | 4L80e Microsquirt TCU Sloppy Transbrake | 3.73 8.8" rear end

1981 Piper Cherokee Archer II | All stock
gross polluter is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:28 PM   #29
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

John, do you even read entire posts? It seems like you miss some key parts of what people say. It seems to me that you tend to berate people when they miss something that you say, but that's just an observation.
culberro is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:48 PM   #30
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff240 View Post
So you looked at pictures and talked to people? Isn't that just regurgitating information?
Do you really have no experience running these motors yourself?

depends on who you are talking to..Talking to dreamer loser parts-counter schmucks and its kinda pointless and you are right, I want to puke.
Talking with serious engine development guys who have 50 years experience with making very high p[owered engines, its a pleasure.. It's called "dia log" from dialogos

(you seem to be so uneducated and unaware in so many different ways I have to assume you don't know what dialog is..Since I feel sorry for you I post the etymology for you:
dialogue (n.) Look up dialogue at Dictionary.com
Quote:
early 13c., "literary work consisting of a conversation between two or more persons," from Old French dialoge, from Latin dialogus, from Greek dialogos "conversation, dialogue," related to dialogesthai "converse," from dia- "across" (see dia-) + legein "speak," from PIE root *leg- (1) "to collect, gather," with derivatives meaning "to speak (to 'pick out words')."

Sense broadened to "a conversation" c. 1400. Mistaken belief that it can only mean "conversation between two persons" is from confusion of dia- and di- (1); the error goes back to at least 1532, when trialogue was coined needlessly for "a conversation between three persons." A word that has been used for "conversation between two persons" is the hybrid duologue (1864).
So regurgitation, that feeling normal people have when reading your endless obvious trolling, which the bulk of your postings here consists of.. is a different thing than adults discussing things as equals.. Especially nice when they have been doing their work longer than you and Mr. Culbertson have been alive...you don't have to be particularly bright--and god knows I've never claimed that-----to learn a fair amount in 40 years.
__________________
John Vanlandingham/JVAB Imports
Sleezattle WA, USA

--> CALL (206) 431-9696<----

www.rallyrace.net/jvab

www.rallyanarchy.com

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

"When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?'"
— Don Marquis
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:50 PM   #31
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
John, do you even read entire posts? It seems like you miss some key parts of what people say. It seems to me that you tend to berate people when they miss something that you say, but that's just an observation.
What did I miss? There IS a fair chance of it..I may read whole thread before commenting but I also admit I consider sources and weigh things written with author in mind...
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:53 PM   #32
Tuff240
240 Ninja
 
Tuff240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central California
Default

So that's a no? You haven't actually run any of these motors yourself?
Tuff240 is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:59 PM   #33
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James10952001 View Post
"Perfectly fine" is relative. For a 160HP motor the 13mm rods are perfectly fine, arguably so are the 9mm rods. For a 200HP motor they're probably still perfectly fine, provided you're not pinging. For 250HP you might be getting close to the ragged edge for even the 13mm rods but that's a more than 50% increase over the stock power level so who is surprised? Especially when you consider that it is an evolution of a 92-114 HP motor. It's not indicative of a design fault that an engine cannot tolerate sustained production of 50%+ more power than it was ever designed to produce. There is some headroom but at some point if you want to push the power far enough beyond the original design envelope, you have to modify the original design accordingly. The stock rods were designed to be an acceptable compromise of mass, cost and strength, and in a stock motor producing stock power levels they meet those design goals with room to spare.

I guess it comes down to what you consider safe "head room"--which I call "margin of safety"..

And there's also what I may do on my own stuff versus what I would advise somebody else to spend time and money to do...

And note..the Redblock blocks may be heavy but just look at the way Volvo did their mainline...then compare that to a whole lotta other motors out there and you'll see that the Volvos are NOT remarkably stock blocks... (that may help to explain why the redblocks spit out core (freeze) plugs: block squirm/block resonantion) They are GOOD but not remarkable...You have been inside other motors I presume.. Look at the amount of iron in the block half of the mainline..Volvo is sculpted away and have holes..many others are fat solid iron in the block half..

And plenty of engines go 300,000 miles with the proviso of having oil in them always...Nothing remarkable there...
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 10:05 PM   #34
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff240 View Post
So that's a no? You haven't actually run any of these motors yourself?
Of course you dim wit, what do you think I have in my 88 wag-goon, Or in the other Volvos I've owned, einstein?
I was driving Volvos when your money was listening to you crying.
How arrogant can you be?

AND even if i didn't drive them, that does not invalidate anything..

Never owned or drove a Dourvin 2,8 or 3,0 and that didn't prevent me from making one that made over 512 hp and 530 ft/lbs for some guy up here.

Its called skill Dickman, knowledge..Something you don't posses except in running your mouth.

Get off this thread if you have no engine knowledge to contribute..which you don't so get lost.
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 10:21 PM   #35
JohnLane
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern Washington
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
How arrogant can you be?

Never owned or drove a Dourvin 2,8 or 3,0 and that didn't prevent me from making one that made over 512 hp and 530 ft/lbs for some guy up here.
Arrogance? This we see from you John. Usually with age we mellow. You? If anything you are at least 300 pounds heavier (all muscle) behind the keyboard.... No indication of mellowing with age.

As for you 'making one' as you refer to the PRV six.... You supplied internals which were delivered with machine steps not completed, a set of pistons in the wrong size... Ect Ect. Hence my sourcing engine internals elsewhere. Today I reach for more displacement in them. More fun!

I built the engine, engine management and programming. Dave Clark built the first turbo installation. I did turbo updates since.
__________________
Overkill is consistently more fun.
JohnLane is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 10:43 PM   #36
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLane View Post
Arrogance? This we see from you John. Usually with age we mellow. You? If anything you are at least 300 pounds heavier (all muscle) behind the keyboard.... No indication of mellowing with age.

As for you 'making one' as you refer to the PRV six.... You supplied internals which were delivered with machine steps not completed, a set of pistons in the wrong size... Ect Ect. Hence my sourcing engine internals elsewhere. Today I reach for more displacement in them. More fun!

I built the engine, engine management and programming. Dave Clark built the first turbo installation. I did turbo updates since.
Lane we were discussion engines and internals. I supplied the rods and pistons and Foster bored it..They worked good. The rest is just your mono-mania...You memeory has been affected and I feel sorry for you that you have been having this condition and the black outs and stuff but you are not a reliable source for anything..

The 4 sets of pistons you ordered which arrived what ever it was 92mm rather than as ordered, 93mm you may recall were delivered IN TIME..albeit quite the rush for CP to re-do...
As for you sourcing things elsewhere, good for you.. You were a terrible customer and a horrible pain to deal with. memory again...

Your first full 3,0 thing--and remember it was I that alerted you that there was the 3,0 Eagle Premier version which you were totally unaware of, that worked fine....and worked fine for a long tiime..

You and we all know your memory is not all there, its not your fault, John, and again i would not wish your problems on anybody, even you, but revising history and making up sheet yourself and then writing as if it was true is not right...
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 10:58 PM   #37
Tuff240
240 Ninja
 
Tuff240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central California
Default

Says the guy that thinks stock 13mm rods aren't strong enough for a stock turbo motor.

Your stock street driven never seen an ounce of competition 88 n/a 245 is the best example you got? Really?

Conveniently my ex found and sent me this old clip just today. My first redblock full motor rebuild back in the late 90's. Unlike you, I actually used what I built. Had to learn for myself what to do and not do by actually running my cars on race tracks. Strangely despite my lack of "skill and knowledge", it's still running some 20 years later.

https://youtu.be/4NBNGCet_Lc
Tuff240 is offline  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:22 PM   #38
JohnLane
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern Washington
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
Your first full 3,0 thing--and remember it was I that alerted you that there was the 3,0 Eagle Premier version which you were totally unaware of, that worked fine....and worked fine for a long tiime..
..
it is sooooooo important to you to have been a part of my PRV six.

I recognized the PRV six in an Eagle Premier in 1989 when I rented one after breaking a main shaft in an M-46 at the start line for a 1/4 mile run. You had absolutely nothing to do with that and did your very best at trying to get me to 'ditch that Frenchie turd for a nice iron block Volvo lump.' I replaced many PRV sixes in customer cars throughout the '90s with even-firing three liters as they were available in yards for cheap and made a nice smooth runner for clients.

The troll is still not worth the effort. But it gets credit for being consistently full of itsself.
JohnLane is offline  
Old 06-14-2017, 12:16 AM   #39
Tuff240
240 Ninja
 
Tuff240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
Never owned or drove a Dourvin 2,8 or 3,0 and that didn't prevent me from making one that made over 512 hp and 530 ft/lbs for some guy up here.

Its called skill Dickman, knowledge..Something you don't posses except in running your mouth.

Get off this thread if you have no engine knowledge to contribute..which you don't so get lost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
Lane we were discussion engines and internals. I supplied the rods and pistons and Foster bored it..They worked good.
So now it's okay to boast about "making" a motor when really all you did was spec/supply the pistons and rods?!?
I think you are so full of yourself you actually believe you "built" that motor.

If this is your definition of "building motors", then hell, I've "built" a 1152rwhp 8v redblock. My "skills and knowledge" must know no bounds. I mean 1152rwhp! That's got to be some kind of record! Who can argue with that "build" under my belt?!? You should bow to my all knowing greatness!
Tuff240 is offline  
Old 06-14-2017, 12:22 AM   #40
Redwood Chair
K-jet For Life
 
Redwood Chair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF CA
Default

__________________
Raise The Lowered


Image hosted by servimg.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
Redwood Chair is offline  
Old 06-14-2017, 12:29 AM   #41
Shifted
Briefly 'Jostra Quadrox'
 
Shifted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Hill, Shinshu Japan
Default

And all this over a Flied Lice 86 thread about chit that ain't ever gonna happen anyhow...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME II View Post
Without mistakes there is no learning.
Let my soul have its day in the mud
Shifted is online now  
Old 06-14-2017, 12:33 AM   #42
Tuff240
240 Ninja
 
Tuff240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central California
Default

Tuff240 is offline  
Old 06-14-2017, 12:59 AM   #43
Shifted
Briefly 'Jostra Quadrox'
 
Shifted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Hill, Shinshu Japan
Default

Shifted is online now  
Old 06-14-2017, 01:22 AM   #44
Tuff240
240 Ninja
 
Tuff240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central California
Default

Looks like he's delivering Tofu...
Tuff240 is offline  
Old 06-14-2017, 01:26 AM   #45
James10952001
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
I guess it comes down to what you consider safe "head room"--which I call "margin of safety"..

And there's also what I may do on my own stuff versus what I would advise somebody else to spend time and money to do...

And note..the Redblock blocks may be heavy but just look at the way Volvo did their mainline...then compare that to a whole lotta other motors out there and you'll see that the Volvos are NOT remarkably stock blocks... (that may help to explain why the redblocks spit out core (freeze) plugs: block squirm/block resonantion) They are GOOD but not remarkable...You have been inside other motors I presume.. Look at the amount of iron in the block half of the mainline..Volvo is sculpted away and have holes..many others are fat solid iron in the block half..

And plenty of engines go 300,000 miles with the proviso of having oil in them always...Nothing remarkable there...
I've been inside a lot of different motors, domestic 4's, V6, I6, V8, various Japanese stuff, VW/Audi, and some assorted industrial engines. Some good, some bad, some in between, all things considered the Volvo redblocks are one of my favorites. I've seen a lot of tired leaky, oil burning, worn out motors with a lot less than 300k on them. I'm not saying they're the best, but they're very good, especially compared to other motors of their era. They're made of good quality iron, they're easy to work on, and in 20 years of driving Volvos and around a dozen of them I've maintained for family and friends I've never had any of those problems with one. I've never tried to get huge power out of them either though. The iron is sculpted the way it is because fat, solid iron adds weight and costs money, for zero gain in the performance envelope they are intended to operate within. A good engineer doesn't add excess material where it is not needed for the intended use.

I may be in the minority around here when I say who cares about huge power, I commute in my cars, I don't race them. I drive a car for decades until something happens to it beyond my control. If I wanted a 300+ horsepower monster I wouldn't be driving a Volvo, I'd get a V8 muscle car. The turbo Volvos were quick in their day but they can't touch a modern sports car in terms of raw performance. I want a safe, reliable, comfortable commuter that can handle some corners, take a rough gravel logging road in stride, has enough balls to pull a load of lumber on a trailer or go over a mountain pass with a load of passengers and camping gear. Maybe a bit of spirited driving on a twisty road now and then but nothing too crazy. For what I do I've never found a better car and I've never had a single serious problem with the engine in any of mine, they just run forever. Now the interior plastic bits, that's another story, I think the average Volvo engine will probably outlast 2 or 3 interiors.
James10952001 is offline  
Old 06-14-2017, 02:01 AM   #46
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifted View Post
And all this over a Flied Lice 86 thread about chit that ain't ever gonna happen anyhow...

Problem solved, both trolls on ignore list..again.

Easiest solution..
John V, outside agitator is offline  
Old 06-14-2017, 02:39 AM   #47
Tuff240
240 Ninja
 
Tuff240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central California
Default

Reality is a bitch isn't it.
Tuff240 is offline  
Old 06-14-2017, 02:52 AM   #48
Kjets On a Plane
Devoid of Luxury
 
Kjets On a Plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James10952001 View Post
If you want big power though everything changes. Big power = big money. By far the cheapest way to get 300+ horsepower is to drop in a smallblock V8. If you want to get that kind of power out of a Volvo motor it's going to cost you. Rod swap is possible but trust me when I say that a motor swap is much easier. You absolutely cannot change the rods without pulling the motor, the crossmember is in the way and prevents removing the oil pan. Once you swap the rods, you've got a tired old motor with stronger rods, if you're going to do the complete disassembly required for that job you may as well rebuild the whole thing. If you don't have the budget, tools and skills to do a motor swap then you don't have the budget, tools or skills to get the kind of power you want. It's that simple. If you want 300hp on a budget, buy an old Mustang, Camaro, etc, something with a 302 or 350 V8, there are TONS of aftermarket parts for those and you can probably get the whole car for what it will cost you to build the motor alone for a classic Volvo.
lol wat? I've replaced so many bearings and oil transfer tube seals with the engine in the car and sometimes x-member too.
I usually take the x-member out, it's only a few more bolts, but technically you can open ended wrench wriggle the oil pump out out and drop it into the pan and dig the sump out with just a longer set of x-member bolts.
It's definitely not pleasant, but it's also a TON faster than removing the entire engine and dealing with the coolant, wiring harness and all the accessories.
Just a little suspension at the very most and very greasy and unpleasant.

ASSuming the OP is even still a member of this pond, has he found a late model B230FT yet on the dirt cheap with low miles to stick a few fresh parts on and drop in?
__________________
How PSI a stock can support?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
If you send me $20 I'll send you a how-to explaining how to make $20 from people on the internet.
Kjets On a Plane is offline  
Old 06-14-2017, 02:56 AM   #49
pat244ti
Moderator
 
pat244ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff240 View Post
If you bend 13mm rods on a stock turbo at 15psi, it wasn't the rods fault.
/endthread
__________________
- Patrick
83 244ti - road race
83 244ti - rally
73 1800es - resto
08 c30 T5 6spd - daily
97 dakota 5.2 4x4 single cab short bed - apocalypse mobile
pat244ti is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.