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Old 03-03-2017, 03:15 PM   #26
John V, outside agitator
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Originally Posted by IWantedAnAE86 View Post
Gas isn't that cheap here in BC Canada, AND MAYBE I WILL!
There are plenty of 240s down here in th Unexplored Southern Area but 240 turbos are a less common...

Importing a car from the Unexplored Southern Area is evidently pretty easy as at least 5-6 cars have gone up to Kanuckistan from right here...

Ultimately the root of all unhappiness is desire, so desiring teverything = unhappiness..
The thing you are simply going to have to learn to do is work on cars and build the car that suits your taste... Look at Volvos as just a bigger Toiletta Commodah...

Anything a AE86 can do, you can make a 240 do only better and cheaper.

IF you can work on a car..
so given that you have desire to have a fun car what are you doing to remedy the lack of tools and lack of garage space?

THAT is the harder part---the path to enlightenment is clear and known, that's the easy part..

What are you doing? is the hard part.

Where in Bee Sea are you?
You want a pimpy boulevard cruiser? a FUN! road car? A gravel road fun machine?
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Old 03-03-2017, 03:31 PM   #27
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There are plenty of 240s down here in th Unexplored Southern Area but 240 turbos are a less common...

Importing a car from the Unexplored Southern Area is evidently pretty easy as at least 5-6 cars have gone up to Kanuckistan from right here...

Ultimately the root of all unhappiness is desire, so desiring teverything = unhappiness..
The thing you are simply going to have to learn to do is work on cars and build the car that suits your taste... Look at Volvos as just a bigger Toiletta Commodah...

Anything a AE86 can do, you can make a 240 do only better and cheaper.

IF you can work on a car..
so given that you have desire to have a fun car what are you doing to remedy the lack of tools and lack of garage space?

THAT is the harder part---the path to enlightenment is clear and known, that's the easy part..

What are you doing? is the hard part.

Where in Bee Sea are you?
You want a pimpy boulevard cruiser? a FUN! road car? A gravel road fun machine?
I have experience working on vehicles, small things such as swapping turbos, cams, exhausts are not a problem for me. It's just the larger things such as pulling an engine out completely and swapping in another that would not be possible.

And pffffffff... Just like the 86, I love Volvos with all my heart, but the ae86 and 240/740 are completely different animals. The 86 is only 2200lb and has a 1.6L dohc that can rev to the moon and back, can be stroked to 1.8L for <$100 and has a much, much larger aftermarket store. But they are rare and like I said often beat to sh*t.

As for 240, if I can find one that's not some young kids drift sl00t, I might go with the b21a pistons, V cam, and slightly thicker head gasket, trying to bring as close to a 9:1 compression ratio as I can.

I really appreciate everyone's help on this, even the ones that were trying to he smarty pants. Also Prius > 240.
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:05 PM   #28
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I really appreciate everyone's help on this, even the ones that were trying to he smarty pants. Also Prius > 240.
Just telling you the truth bro.

A 240 is what it is at the end of the day even when tweaked out.

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Old 03-03-2017, 04:20 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by IWantedAnAE86 View Post
I have experience working on vehicles, small things such as swapping turbos, cams, exhausts are not a problem for me. It's just the larger things such as pulling an engine out completely and swapping in another that would not be possible.

And pffffffff... Just like the 86, I love Volvos with all my heart, but the ae86 and 240/740 are completely different animals. The 86 is only 2200lb and has a 1.6L dohc that can rev to the moon and back, can be stroked to 1.8L for <$100 and has a much, much larger aftermarket store. But they are rare and like I said often beat to sh*t.

As for 240, if I can find one that's not some young kids drift sl00t, I might go with the b21a pistons, V cam, and slightly thicker head gasket, trying to bring as close to a 9:1 compression ratio as I can.

I really appreciate everyone's help on this, even the ones that were trying to he smarty pants. Also Prius > 240.

Anything a AE86 can do, the 240 can do better and cheaper.. Look at this nice little clip



To do that in BOTH cases reliably you have to do the same things.. build a motor, put a clutch on it, a good gearbox, a stronger axle and LSD get good suspension--and quicker steering and better brakes..

Now realistically you make it 1800 easy enough ("i've built 'em and suplied LOTS! of parts to AE86s pervs around the world)( I do like 'em) What kinda of ft/lbs you think it could make? 145?.....Spend LESS money on a Volvo and you can do way more HP and more importantly, just cause its bigger, a LOT more ft/lbs..

More ft/lbs at less revs means its less stressed...Means it lasts longer..Important thing for a privat driver.. 25 years ago cars like that in the vid had typically about 230-235hp @7000 rpm...A 4AGE making that is going to be a $20,000 build doing 10,000 rpm..

I push 240s for rally which my only interest in cars...I have saying long enough that its become a "saying" and I acknowledge that the MkII Escort in Group 4 spec is the coolest car in all human history, (and everybody knows AE86s is a virtual copy of a Ford Escort with Ford BDA, it is, and it was intentional) but I say the 240 is "The Escort of North America".. Build it like an Escort, and it'll go like an Escort...only fitting North American conditions better...
(we have a lot bigger trees and bigger roads and higher speeds because of the roads built to get those trees out of the mountains)..

Now...go find a 240. Building engines is 75% maniacal cleaning 15% measuring dead accurate, then 10% assembly...It is NOT rocket science..

of course it costs money but you work, dontcha?
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:28 PM   #30
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Yoshifab sell the Cometic head gaskets now. They are not cheap. Never have been. But it is a good gasket.

Pull head, measure deck height, get thinnest head gasket you can run safely, shave the **** out of the head. You might get to 8.5:1. More if you get really carried away with the head and run a shorter timing belt.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:04 PM   #31
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Anything a AE86 can do, the 240 can do better and cheaper.. Look at this nice little clip



To do that in BOTH cases reliably you have to do the same things.. build a motor, put a clutch on it, a good gearbox, a stronger axle and LSD get good suspension--and quicker steering and better brakes..

Now realistically you make it 1800 easy enough ("i've built 'em and suplied LOTS! of parts to AE86s pervs around the world)( I do like 'em) What kinda of ft/lbs you think it could make? 145?.....Spend LESS money on a Volvo and you can do way more HP and more importantly, just cause its bigger, a LOT more ft/lbs..

More ft/lbs at less revs means its less stressed...Means it lasts longer..Important thing for a privat driver.. 25 years ago cars like that in the vid had typically about 230-235hp @7000 rpm...A 4AGE making that is going to be a $20,000 build doing 10,000 rpm..

I push 240s for rally which my only interest in cars...I have saying long enough that its become a "saying" and I acknowledge that the MkII Escort in Group 4 spec is the coolest car in all human history, (and everybody knows AE86s is a virtual copy of a Ford Escort with Ford BDA, it is, and it was intentional) but I say the 240 is "The Escort of North America".. Build it like an Escort, and it'll go like an Escort...only fitting North American conditions better...
(we have a lot bigger trees and bigger roads and higher speeds because of the roads built to get those trees out of the mountains)..

Now...go find a 240. Building engines is 75% maniacal cleaning 15% measuring dead accurate, then 10% assembly...It is NOT rocket science..

of course it costs money but you work, dontcha?
Look I'm not gonna turn this into a 240 vs ae86 argue, but saying that the 240 can do anything the ae86 can do better and for cheaper is outright wrong. They both have their strong and weak points.

As for the 4ag motor, there are plenty of builders making 260+hp at under 9k RPMs naturally aspirated, and the 7ag stroker motors go further than that. They also make plenty of power boosted, I've seen a twin charged 4age making 500+hp with the stock 1.6L displacement and even more when stroked to 1.8L.

Making power with those motors are cheap and easy as well, if you have an ae86, swap in a 4agze bottom end ($100-150), custom fab your own turbo kit (let's say around $500), put some crazy boost into and you'll be in the 250+hp range. Throw in a set of cams, up the boost even more you'll be pushing crazy numbers for a tiny motor. These DOHC motors breathe extremely well. If your tranny goes out, throw in a cheap W58 from a supra and call it a day.

Even with all the hp potential, you still don't even need that much power for something that can be stripped to sub-1800lb.

This is the last time I'll say it, the ae86 and 240 are completely different animals. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

And please explain to me how the 86 is a copy of an escort.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:20 PM   #32
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You don't need RSI or Yoshi to get a head gasket. Just go buy one from Cometic they ship fast...
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:26 PM   #33
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I don't know what all this nonsense is about, the T cam pulls good from way down low and the 240T will run just fine on regular gas if you don't tweak it out.

Besides Oh Pee doesn't even have a car yet so I call :benchrace:.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:28 PM   #34
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I don't know what all this nonsense is about, the T cam pulls good from way down low and the 240T will run just fine on regular gas if you don't tweak it out.
I won't even run my stock n/a cars on CA's crappy regular gas.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:32 PM   #35
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I won't even run my stock n/a cars on CA's crappy regular gas.
Works for me unless it's hot weather, and I'm pushing it in the mountains, which is once a year when I go to Oregon on summer vacation.

Waste of money otherwise....

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Old 03-03-2017, 05:33 PM   #36
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Works for me unless it's hot weather, and I'm pushing it in the mountains, which is once a year when I go to Oregon on summer vacation.

Waste of money otherwise....

I live in the mountains.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:37 PM   #37
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I live in the mountains.


Understood, and I do put super in all the NA Volvos in the fold.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:43 PM   #38
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And I don't agree with it's a waste of money either. You can increase timing with super and get better performance AND better gas mileage. Usually 2-4mpg better.

Take some average numbers and do some easy math:

25mpg on super for 10 gallons = 250 miles. At $3 a gallon that's $30.
22mpg on regular for 10 gallons = 220 miles. At $2.60 a gallon that's $26.

A long road trip of lets say 2000 miles. $240 in super or $237 in regular.

Are you really worried about $3 over 2000 miles?
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:49 PM   #39
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I don't know what all this nonsense is about, the T cam pulls good from way down low and the 240T will run just fine on regular gas if you don't tweak it out.

Besides Oh Pee doesn't even have a car yet so I call :benchrace:.
I have a car and two trucks. All are slow and boring.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:49 PM   #40
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And I don't agree with it's a waste of money either. You can increase timing with super and get better performance AND better gas mileage. Usually 2-4mpg better.

Take some average numbers and do some easy math:

25mpg on super for 10 gallons = 250 miles. At $3 a gallon that's $30.
22mpg on regular for 10 gallons = 220 miles. At $2.60 a gallon that's $26.

A long road trip of lets say 2000 miles. $240 in super or $237 in regular.

Are you really worried about $3 over 2000 miles?

I get 25mpg at 60 mph whether I use super or not.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:11 PM   #41
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I get 25mpg at 60 mph whether I use super or not.
Those numbers were averages for comparison sake. If you tune your car for super, you'll get better mpg on super.

Best mpg I've gotten in a 240 is 32mpg. Was in a 87 244 m47, flat ground commuting.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:51 PM   #42
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Those numbers were averages for comparison sake. If you tune your car for super, you'll get better mpg on super.

Best mpg I've gotten in a 240 is 32mpg. Was in a 87 244 m47, flat ground commuting.
Yes but the timing stays at 12º for smog, the 25mpg is the Oregon stretch and 22 mpg is what I get in Cali when I hit the open freeways & do 75mph.

Also true the 86 245 / M46 got 31.8 combined coming the 600miles back from Newport Oregon on 101 one year.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:54 PM   #43
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I have a car and two trucks. All are slow and boring.
So the lights are on, the computer works, the internet's paid up, but where's the 240 Turbo?
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:57 PM   #44
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I live in the mountains.
I recall my Dad putting 85 in the explorer we were in when we went fishing up on Gould CO, isn't lower octane better with higher elevation?
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:16 PM   #45
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Look I'm not gonna turn this into a 240 vs ae86 argue, but saying that the 240 can do anything the ae86 can do better and for cheaper is outright wrong. They both have their strong and weak points.

As for the 4ag motor, there are plenty of builders making 260+hp at under 9k RPMs naturally aspirated, and the 7ag stroker motors go further than that. They also make plenty of power boosted, I've seen a twin charged 4age making 500+hp with the stock 1.6L displacement and even more when stroked to 1.8L.

Making power with those motors are cheap and easy as well, if you have an ae86, swap in a 4agze bottom end ($100-150), custom fab your own turbo kit (let's say around $500), put some crazy boost into and you'll be in the 250+hp range. Throw in a set of cams, up the boost even more you'll be pushing crazy numbers for a tiny motor. These DOHC motors breathe extremely well. If your tranny goes out, throw in a cheap W58 from a supra and call it a day.

Even with all the hp potential, you still don't even need that much power for something that can be stripped to sub-1800lb.

This is the last time I'll say it, the ae86 and 240 are completely different animals. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

And please explain to me how the 86 is a copy of an escort.
Never mind, no point even trying to discuss with a fan boi who already knows everything.. I wonder, how many performance engines you have built yourself that do what..

Kiddo there's nothing special about 4AGE, its a virtual copy of Ford Cosworth BDA, productionized....just like Nissan's great FJ20 is a productionized copy or Ford Cosworth BDG...Shirley you know this.

In your dream-build-specs I didn't see anything about replacing the crank--which Toyata says get a steel crank if you do more than 150 hp...so maybe everybody knows its no problem and Toyota was full of sh!t, but i dunno..

Just curious how many high performance 4s you have built total in your life?

Whatever dream on..
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:24 PM   #46
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Something is rattling in my wore out brain that the b21 auto box had a very low stall speed. Like many previous members have said 230ft.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:30 PM   #47
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Something is rattling in my wore out brain that the b21 auto box had a very low stall speed. Like many previous members have said 230ft.
A B21FT would have an AW71.
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Old 03-03-2017, 09:11 PM   #48
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Never mind, no point even trying to discuss with a fan boi who already knows everything.. I wonder, how many performance engines you have built yourself that do what..

Kiddo there's nothing special about 4AGE, its a virtual copy of Ford Cosworth BDA, productionized....just like Nissan's great FJ20 is a productionized copy or Ford Cosworth BDG...Shirley you know this.

In your dream-build-specs I didn't see anything about replacing the crank--which Toyata says get a steel crank if you do more than 150 hp...so maybe everybody knows its no problem and Toyota was full of sh!t, but i dunno..

Just curious how many high performance 4s you have built total in your life?

Whatever dream on..
What's wrong with the motor being a copy of a cosworth motor? Also it's very impressive that you can read billzilla's page about the 4ag. So you need a steel crank for 150hp+? the bluetop 4ag makes 128hp and the silvertop 4ag makes 165hp, both use the exact same crank. And since you're sooooo smart, you'd know that all 4ag cranks are made from forged steel.

Seems like you don't enjoy debating with someone that's actually knowledgeable about these vehicles.
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:01 PM   #49
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You don't need RSI or Yoshi to get a head gasket. Just go buy one from Cometic they ship fast...
Cometic won't ship to Canada for some reason. They're what, $130 on the site? I ended up getting mine through Kegs for 109? Some were on sale for mid 60s a couple weeks ago when I ordered.

Where in BC are you?
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Old 03-04-2017, 07:52 AM   #50
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Cometic won't ship to Canada for some reason. They're what, $130 on the site? I ended up getting mine through Kegs for 109? Some were on sale for mid 60s a couple weeks ago when I ordered.

Where in BC are you?
Lower mainland
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