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Old 05-07-2017, 12:24 PM   #1
EivlEvo
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Default Auto to Manual T5 Questions

So lads...

I've collected (or at least ordered) most of my parts. I just have a few questions, and want someone to check to be sure I haven't forgotten anything.

This is going into a 1993 245 auto car.

I have a T5 (260 box) out of the later V6 mustang.
I have the correct 1992 5.0 input shaft to swap over, but what ancillaries do I need for this? I've read about adjusting preload, and I assume I need a shim kit or something yes?

I have the RogerDee adapter to go onto an M47 bell housing from my 87. I'll need to punch out the notch on the bell, but meh...

I have the flywheel from JohnV for LH2.4 and drilled for a 228 pressure plate.

I have a Saab Viggen 228mm pressure plate

I have a Ford Thunderbird turbocoupe clutch disc

I got an aluminum driveshaft for a mustang because I was bored chasing jackbutts around in the web to get one shipped, and there was nothing in my yards. This is paired with Yoshi's adapter.

I have a Ford 5.0 input shaft bearing

I still need to get the (Volvo?) throwout bearing... mine worked fine, but looks beat.

My 87 244 will be donating it's pedal box. This is where I'm at. I've read some posts saying you need to take out the dash... I've read some others saying it's a 1 hour job to just unbolt it. What/how do I do this? I was (in my head) thinking I'd just swap clutch and brake pedals over, and thus not remove the actual box... can I? Should I?

Also, the hole for the cable? What needs to come out of the car for me to drill this? I don't have a right angle drill, but I could probably snag one if it makes the job markedly easier.


What other ancillaries am I missing/should I get? Rear main seal? T5 internals/rebuild? Do I need a new bearing for the front of it when I change the input shaft?
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:30 PM   #2
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If you need to mod the bellhousing aka removing the volvo input shaft sleeve, then you need to use a ford TO bearing, if you do not need to mod the bellhousing with this adapter then you can use the volvo one.

Pedal box brackets between auto and manual are different for the 240s' the whole box needs to come out, dash doesn't need to come out to do this but I suggest taking the drivers seat out cause you will be on your back the whole time.
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Old 05-07-2017, 04:56 PM   #3
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Simi et al

On the donor car I was able to get all the bolts loose (I think) for the pedal box. It wasn't much an issue because the cluster on that car is out, so I was able to have good sight lines on most of the bolts.

However... how do I get it out of the car? lol... it seems like either the dash or the steering column needs to come out?
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:12 PM   #4
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I drilled the clutch cable in a 1993 245 without trouble or major things to access it.
I swapped the pedals with dash there, was a pain in the ass, but dobale.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:54 PM   #5
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How do they come out? Do they rotate or what?
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Old 05-07-2017, 11:16 PM   #6
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cutting the auto brake pedal with a grinder to the size of the standard pedal works well enough that you can fit the factory brake pedal pad on it. If you cut it far enough towards the gas pedal it's in the same factory position as if you'd swapped the standard pedal in. After you've gone that, bolt in the clutch pedal to the auto pedal box and you're good to go. Saves you removing the brake pedal which is a major pain in the a**. I did all this on a 93 244, with donor pedals from an 86. I got the pedals out of the donor car with the dash out since I was parting the car
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:12 AM   #7
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Did you just unbolt the torque rod then?

I'm still confused as to how they actually come out!
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:34 AM   #8
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If I remember correctly, I was able to get the entire pedal box out by dropping the steering column. The pedals have pins that attached them to the brake booster/master cylinder and clutch cable
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:02 AM   #9
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If I remember correctly, I was able to get the entire pedal box out by dropping the steering column. The pedals have pins that attached them to the brake booster/master cylinder and clutch cable
Did you drop it from the steering wheel side? Like... unbolting that steel girder going across and that's that or is there something more.

I'll take a look.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:08 AM   #10
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I just left the auto box in place. Swapped the brake pedal to install the manual. Then cut off the clutch portion of the donor manual box and bolted that in next to the auto box - and the clutch pedal shaft and brace and firewall bolts is more than enough to hold it securely. I've been using it like that for 6 - 7 years or so now? With some stiffer than stock clutches.

Doing it like that made it a *LOT* easier to do. Taking the whole pedal box out looked like a PITA.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:35 AM   #11
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Did you drop it from the steering wheel side? Like... unbolting that steel girder going across and that's that or is there something more.

I'll take a look.
That's what I remember doing. If I were you I'd leave the auto box in place, cut the brake pedal and bolt in the clutch pedal. It's good and solid, I've had no issues for the past 2 years
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:07 AM   #12
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That's what I remember doing. If I were you I'd leave the auto box in place, cut the brake pedal and bolt in the clutch pedal. It's good and solid, I've had no issues for the past 2 years
I'm on board with that... but how do I pull the clutch pedal out?
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:03 PM   #13
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I'm on board with that... but how do I pull the clutch pedal out?
Is yours a hydro or cable clutch?
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EivlEvo View Post
So lads...

I have a T5 (260 box) out of the later V6 mustang.
I have the correct 1992 5.0 input shaft to swap over, but what ancillaries do I need for this? I've read about adjusting preload, and I assume I need a shim kit or something yes?


I have the flywheel from JohnV for LH2.4 and drilled for a 228 pressure plate.

I have a Saab Viggen 228mm pressure plate

I have a Ford Thunderbird turbocoupe clutch disc


I have a Ford 5.0 input shaft bearing

I still need to get the (Volvo?) throwout bearing... mine worked fine, but looks beat.

What other ancillaries am I missing/should I get? Rear main seal? T5 internals/rebuild? Do I need a new bearing for the front of it when I change the input shaft?
5speeds.com has a peel-able shim kit that's pretty easy to use for shimming the input bearing.

How recently did you get the JVAB flywheel? The one I got wouldn't work with the Saab pressure plate because the dowel pin location was only drilled for the Volvo pattern that has them next to the mounting bolts. The SAAB uses a 6mm dowel that's spaced right between the mounting bolts. This was used on some factory volvo flywheels, and the OEM Volvo PP will mount to either. The 228mm SAAB PP only has dowel pin holes located in between the bolt holes.
On the clutch, make sure you shim the PP and the pivot ball. I shimmed the pivot ball out about 4mm. The shim thickness for the PP will vary depending on disk thickness. I ended up using some 5/16 washers that were about .046in thick.

There's a nice sealed cartridge bearing that will fit in there. WAY better quality than the crappy mustang needle bearing. I can't remember what the number is off the top of my head.
Harlard Superstar might.

Yes. You will need to match the clutch fork and the TO bearing. Flat and stepped-flywheel forks and TO bearings are not the same.

You'll probably want to replace the input shaft bearing and possibly the pocket bearing (roller sand thrust). Unless you have a nice bearing puller, reusing the input shaft bearing will be difficult.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:21 PM   #15
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Is yours a hydro or cable clutch?
Cable.

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Originally Posted by culberro View Post
5speeds.com has a peel-able shim kit that's pretty easy to use for shimming the input bearing.

How recently did you get the JVAB flywheel? The one I got wouldn't work with the Saab pressure plate because the dowel pin location was only drilled for the Volvo pattern that has them next to the mounting bolts. The SAAB uses a 6mm dowel that's spaced right between the mounting bolts. This was used on some factory volvo flywheels, and the OEM Volvo PP will mount to either. The 228mm SAAB PP only has dowel pin holes located in between the bolt holes.
On the clutch, make sure you shim the PP and the pivot ball. I shimmed the pivot ball out about 4mm. The shim thickness for the PP will vary depending on disk thickness. I ended up using some 5/16 washers that were about .046in thick.

There's a nice sealed cartridge bearing that will fit in there. WAY better quality than the crappy mustang needle bearing. I can't remember what the number is off the top of my head.
Harlard Superstar might.

Yes. You will need to match the clutch fork and the TO bearing. Flat and stepped-flywheel forks and TO bearings are not the same.

You'll probably want to replace the input shaft bearing and possibly the pocket bearing (roller sand thrust). Unless you have a nice bearing puller, reusing the input shaft bearing will be difficult.
The JVAB flywheel is freshly made and (ideally, though not apparently, in the mail) John and I spoke for a long while about the options and this seemed solid. I suppose we'll see?

Can you elaborate on this? When you say pivot ball what do you mean? Are you referring to the brass adapters that go on the clutch fork? If so, I don't believe my setup (roger dee adapter) requires those. However... obviously I'm frankensteining things here. How do I know how much to shim it?

I assume I'd grab a flat flywheel TOB because I'm using the JohnV flywheel?

I'll look into that peel and stick and I'll grab another input shaft bearing...
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Old 05-08-2017, 04:46 PM   #16
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Okay, I assume that John got the Saab PP pattern figured out. I ran into the issue about a month and a half ago, and let him know about it. So hopefully all the others have the additional dowel pin pattern in them.

Most people don't know that Volvo used 2 different dowel pin locations and 2 different pin diameters.
One pattern has the dowel located about an inch of the bolt holes. These pins are 6.35mm/.25in
The other pattern has the dowels located between the bolt holes. These pins are 6mm.

You will need to shim the PP off of the flywheel just a bit. That's because the PP is designed for a stepped flywheel AND the clutch disk (Ford) is thicker than the stock Viggen one.
The flywheel step is 1.55mm, and the Viggen disk is 7.66mm. 7.66-1.55= 6.11mm (that's the "disk" thickness if the PP was bolted to a flat flywheel with no step. Now measure the thickness of the Ford disk and subtract 6.11mm from that. You'll now have the thickness of shims you'll need to space the PP properly.

So the pivot ball.
That's the ball-on-a-post looking thing that the clutch fork pivots on. Since the install finger-height of the Saab PP is less than the Volvo, the clutch fork will hit the opening in the bellhousing or the PP when the clutch pedal is pushed.
To get around this, the ball must be spaced out~4mm. This is easily done with a stack of washer underneath the base of the ball. You will have to do this before you install the adapter plate to the bellhousing.

Flat style TO bearing and clutch fork work fine. That's what I used with the above setup.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:34 PM   #17
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The alternative pilot bearing is a 6003-2RS. Way better than a needle bearing as far as longevity is concerned.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:43 PM   #18
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Reading this now... I remember reading through your thread. Good info...
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Okay, I assume that John got the Saab PP pattern figured out. I ran into the issue about a month and a half ago, and let him know about it. So hopefully all the others have the additional dowel pin pattern in them.

Most people don't know that Volvo used 2 different dowel pin locations and 2 different pin diameters.
One pattern has the dowel located about an inch of the bolt holes. These pins are 6.35mm/.25in
The other pattern has the dowels located between the bolt holes. These pins are 6mm.

You will need to shim the PP off of the flywheel just a bit. That's because the PP is designed for a stepped flywheel AND the clutch disk (Ford) is thicker than the stock Viggen one.
The flywheel step is 1.55mm, and the Viggen disk is 7.66mm. 7.66-1.55= 6.11mm (that's the "disk" thickness if the PP was bolted to a flat flywheel with no step. Now measure the thickness of the Ford disk and subtract 6.11mm from that. You'll now have the thickness of shims you'll need to space the PP properly.

So the pivot ball.
That's the ball-on-a-post looking thing that the clutch fork pivots on. Since the install finger-height of the Saab PP is less than the Volvo, the clutch fork will hit the opening in the bellhousing or the PP when the clutch pedal is pushed.
To get around this, the ball must be spaced out~4mm. This is easily done with a stack of washer underneath the base of the ball. You will have to do this before you install the adapter plate to the bellhousing.

Flat style TO bearing and clutch fork work fine. That's what I used with the above setup.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:06 PM   #19
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On my car, the brake pedal and clutch pedal are attached. You should be able to disconnect the clutch pedal, and unbolt it. Easiest way to access it is to remove the drivers seat and lay on your back. If you don't want to drop the steering column or take the dash out, your best bet will be to drill out the spot welds that hold the clutch pedal box to the brake pedal box. You might be able to do it by using a right angle drill with a short drill bit. I was able to drop the steering column down by unbolting the support bracket that you mentioned earlier, which gave me clearance to remove the brake/clutch pedal box after removing the pedals.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:17 AM   #20
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On my car, the brake pedal and clutch pedal are attached. You should be able to disconnect the clutch pedal, and unbolt it. Easiest way to access it is to remove the drivers seat and lay on your back. If you don't want to drop the steering column or take the dash out, your best bet will be to drill out the spot welds that hold the clutch pedal box to the brake pedal box. You might be able to do it by using a right angle drill with a short drill bit. I was able to drop the steering column down by unbolting the support bracket that you mentioned earlier, which gave me clearance to remove the brake/clutch pedal box after removing the pedals.
I'm mildly nervous about the SRS in my car and doing this.

This all stated, I might try it on the donor car (non SRS) and see what's what. If I can get the damn thing out of there, and get a good look at how it all goes together... it shouldn't be an issue attaching it and grinding the brake pedal or whatever on the good car.
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Old 05-09-2017, 08:16 AM   #21
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It's really not too complicated. My donor car didn't have SRS, but my other car did. There's instructions on how to disable SRS if you're nervous about it going off. Other than that, SRS doesn't get in the way of what you're trying to do.
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:54 PM   #22
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Does anybody have any pics of this clutch cable pedal box?

I wrestled with my 87 donor car this weekend. My pedal box is completely loose. There's nothing holding it it... I cannot for the life of me get the damn thing out though. It SEEMS like the steering column needs to come out? There's also a steel girder that runs across the column (knee bar?) that is completely loose but won't wiggle itself free. The upper clamp that holds the steering column in place seems to be PROPERLY riveted to something INSIDE this steel girder. I can't slide it fore or aft to allow it to drop though.

I DID unbolt the clutch pedal itself (just the pedal and it's spring) thinking that maybe this is what I really needed, but I'm not sure that's all there is to it.

What does the pedal box assy look like in the 93's? Mine has the bolster and the SRS and I ran out of daylight before I could wrangle it out (because I was busy fingering the damn bolt that's in my oil pan lol).
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Old 05-31-2017, 02:11 PM   #23
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Bumping.
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Old 05-31-2017, 02:14 PM   #24
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If you just need to swap the clutch pedal, it can be done with the pedal box in the car.
If you need to swap out the pedal box, then the column has to come out. Pretty easy job. Be careful of the bearings in the lower section of the column coming out.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:50 PM   #25
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Taking the whole pedal box out is easy, it's like 6 bolts, takes only a few minutes. The job really is easier if you take the dash out, on a 240 that's easier than it looks, after doing it a few times I can swap the dash in a 240 in well under an hour, takes about 20 minutes to pull it out of the car. Once it's out you have clear access to everything.
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