home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-08-2017, 05:14 PM   #1
MikeJr.
Gloss Boss
 
MikeJr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Acworth, GA 30102
Question Weber DCOE Fuel pump and FPR?

I just got a new set of Weber DCOE 45s for my 122, and I wanted to know what is the best fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator set up.

Initially I will be running them on my stock b18, but I am building a B20 on a stand that'll be cam'ed and have some headwork done. Both will be mainly for street use.

Will my stock mechanical pump be enough for the stock b18 set up, or should I go directly to an electric pump?
__________________
My other projects http://www.pbase.com/mikejr
MikeJr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 05:16 PM   #2
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJr. View Post
I just got a new set of Weber DCOE 45s for my 122, and I wanted to know what is the best fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator set up.

Initially I will be running them on my stock b18, but I am building a B20 on a stand that'll be cam'ed and have some headwork done. Both will be mainly for street use.

Will my stock mechanical pump be enough for the stock b18 set up, or should I go directly to an electric pump?
Oh, an easy one.


__________________
John Vanlandingham/JVAB Imports
Sleezattle WA, USA

--> CALL (206) 431-9696<----

www.rallyrace.net/jvab

www.rallyanarchy.com

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

"When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?'"
— Don Marquis
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 05:21 PM   #3
propav8r
F*ck Edgar
 
propav8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Franklin, NC
Default

The pump should be easy, but the second is a "Filter King."

They make a combinaiton glass bowl filter and regulator too. Has the added benefit of looking cool, and thus, making the car faster.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Malpassi-Fil...-/110622432307
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotankshane View Post
If its a solid stage 0, +t it. If it aint, +t it anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
turn the ignition timing up til it's faster than eamon's miata, then replace the shortblock #wootenthings

My Project (It's a 1979 244DL...sort of.)
K-Jet to Megasquirt Article

The Departed: 1981 245, 1983 245 Turbo, 1983 244 Turbo, 1983 242 Turbo, 1984 244, 1985 245 Turbo,
1989 244, 1989 765, 1990 245 Turbo, 1991 244, 1992 245, 1997 855
propav8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 05:24 PM   #4
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

My DCOE's never seemed happy with the mechanical pump that was used with the SU's. I'm not sure why. They weren't overflowing (that I noticed), but they just seemed pretty erratic.

Plus the float bowls on the DCOE's seemed like they'd evaporate out a bit more than the SU's ever did - bigger vent, plus heat soaking from the exhaust after shutdown? Either way, it sometimes took more cranking to get them going when it had sat for a while.

On the PV I stuck a Holley blue fuel pump in the back by the tank, with a pre filter because my tank has a habit of sending rust particles along with the fuel. Then I put some fairly cheap pressure regulator up in the engine compartment. I forget the brand but it's some silver alloy disc looking thing with a big knob on it, looks about like this:


I keep that set a 2.5 psi, works fine. The carbs seem happier, and if the car happens to sit around for a while, the electric pump will fill the bowls in a second or so before you even crank instead of cranking it for a while waiting for the mechanical pump to refill them.
__________________
'63 PV Rat Rod
'93 245 16VT Classic #1141
JohnMc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 05:31 PM   #5
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by propav8r View Post
The pump should be easy, but the second is a "Filter King."

They make a combinaiton glass bowl filter and regulator too. Has the added benefit of looking cool, and thus, making the car faster.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Malpassi-Fil...-/110622432307

Bonus points to you!
NAPA stores have the pumps in stock often.. I use 2 cause I like to drive home.

There are also these "FISPA" filters



I use the ones off Alfa V6 Fool-infected..aka "controlled drip"
Filter is about Volvo oil filter size..and has nifty-keen-o presssure sender on the outlet side..You can use that to shut down pumps on stall.
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 05:33 PM   #6
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
My DCOE's never seemed happy with the mechanical pump that was used with the SU's. I'm not sure why. They weren't overflowing (that I noticed), but they just seemed pretty erratic.

Plus the float bowls on the DCOE's seemed like they'd evaporate out a bit more than the SU's ever did - bigger vent, plus heat soaking from the exhaust after shutdown? Either way, it sometimes took more cranking to get them going when it had sat for a while.

On the PV I stuck a Holley blue fuel pump in the back by the tank, with a pre filter because my tank has a habit of sending rust particles along with the fuel. Then I put some fairly cheap pressure regulator up in the engine compartment. I forget the brand but it's some silver alloy disc looking thing with a big knob on it, looks about like this:

I keep that set a 2.5 psi, works fine. The carbs seem happier, and if the car happens to sit around for a while, the electric pump will fill the bowls in a second or so before you even crank instead of cranking it for a while waiting for the mechanical pump to refill them.
Ugh..

On YOUR car I betcha you'r be happier with moar fool pressure.. I can quote where Ford says so..2.5---man you must never run that hard...

Those die-cast things are NOTORIOUS for being grossly inaccurate.
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 05:55 PM   #7
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

I just gently idle the PV to the liquor store and back each Sunday. (heh)

Yeah, my regulator is pretty junky, I'm intrigued by that combo filter/regulator prop posted up there.

The PV makes about 170-ish WHP, based on 1/4 mile times, and I've done some 'top speed' pulls on it where my foot was down all the way for a sustained period of time, and it never ran out of fuel. I think the regulator will move a lot of fuel when the floats open and the pressure drops.
JohnMc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 06:18 PM   #8
MikeJr.
Gloss Boss
 
MikeJr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Acworth, GA 30102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
NAPA stores have the pumps in stock often..
Part#? Just searched their website under that name and nothing came up.
MikeJr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 06:28 PM   #9
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJr. View Post
Part#? Just searched their website under that name and nothing came up.
Maybe?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Facet-Red-To...3D141312968459

Got it!
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_6102008
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 06:38 PM   #10
MikeJr.
Gloss Boss
 
MikeJr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Acworth, GA 30102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
That's a big price difference. Ever use that ebay one?
MikeJr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 07:14 PM   #11
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJr. View Post
That's a big price difference. Ever use that ebay one?

No. I suspect its from China..

The NAPA one is FACET and they made those buggers in UK, USA, Japan, so idunno..Even the Engrish ones worked. Chinese? maybe...
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 07:21 PM   #12
matt b
Board Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tucson
Default

I'm the opposite of JohnMC in terms of experience. I just pulled and sold my 45's and switched to 40's but I'm at a much higher altitude than Acworth/Atlanta.

I did the electrical fuel pump with no regulator approach and that was a mess. I then did the Mr Gasket regulator and electrical fuel pump and that was also messing up. Re-jetted the carbs and still couldn't get my B20 to play nice with the set up. Finally went back to a mechanical fuel pump and it was 7th heaven after that.

Only downside to DCOE's is that they require regular adjustments to stay in sync. Get familiar with tuning them yourself, it will make a world of difference. But it does wonders to a well built B20, it makes for a fun Amazon!
matt b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 07:36 PM   #13
Hotdoggin
Board Member
 
Hotdoggin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Default

Not to hi-jack, that Filter king looks like it'd solve all my problems. It'll work for a setup running say... dual Solex 44PA1s? Do I eliminate the return in the system, or does that one have a return? I can't quite tell.
__________________
1978 245DL - B21 Penta carb powered!
1982 244T - Crushed
1983 245DL - SOLD
1984 244DL - Crushed
1984 245DL - Sitting in someone's yard
1991 740SE - girlfriend's car
2008 S60 2.5T - Money drainer
Hotdoggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 09:40 PM   #14
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJr. View Post
That's a big price difference. Ever use that ebay one?

No. I suspect its from China..

The NAPA one is FACET and they made those buggers in UK, USA, Japan, so idunno..Even the Engrish ones worked. Chinese? maybe...
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 12:01 AM   #15
hiperfauto
Board Member
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

Use what ever pump you like, as long as it's reliable and pumps enough volume. My go to pump for DCOE's used to be the Competition Service mechanical pump because it has threaded holes so you can use AN fittings or hose barbs. You can find them on Penta B30's (AQ165-170), but they're usually in rough condition. Rebuild kits are available if you do find one.



A good pressure regulator is important as Webers require only 2½-3psi. Any more than that and you'll push fuel past the float valves. I like the Holley low pressure regulator because of the low cost, dual outlets and because it also has threaded holes for your choice of fittings.

hiperfauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 01:52 AM   #16
1971Gold142
Board Member
 
1971Gold142's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Here is my current setup using a Filter King regulator with separate pressure guage for dual DCOEs on a B20.


 photo VolvoRegGuage1_zpsvvvra174.jpg

 photo VolvoGuage_zpsddqztp8h.jpg
__________________
71' 142E
1971Gold142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 10:14 AM   #17
MikeJr.
Gloss Boss
 
MikeJr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Acworth, GA 30102
Default

Here we go

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Facet-Red-...-/111018429216
MikeJr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 10:19 AM   #18
MikeJr.
Gloss Boss
 
MikeJr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Acworth, GA 30102
Default

Doing some research on those pumps I came across this picture and thought it was pretty neat set up. It's in a 60s 911

MikeJr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 10:39 AM   #19
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJr. View Post
Neat.
JohnMc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 10:50 AM   #20
MikeJr.
Gloss Boss
 
MikeJr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Acworth, GA 30102
Default

Also what size fuel line do you guys recommend? Will the stock size suffice?
MikeJr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 12:26 PM   #21
MikeJr.
Gloss Boss
 
MikeJr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Acworth, GA 30102
Default

Found a guy that is running a Carter electric fuel pump with a Weber 38DGAS. He said it runs great with that pump. I like how he mounted it in the stock location. Looks to be a 6-8 psi pump. Also it looks like you could use AN fittings if you wanted


http://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P4600HP/10002/-1

They also have a 4-6 psi pump that may also work.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P40...W1GBoCjzHw_wcB

And they also sell a kit
http://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P4070K/10002/-1

Last edited by MikeJr.; 06-09-2017 at 12:34 PM..
MikeJr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 12:37 PM   #22
MoCounselor
Board Member
 
MoCounselor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Midwest, USA
Default

This is great info for those of us interested in a DCOE set-up! Keep it coming!
MoCounselor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 12:58 PM   #23
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJr. View Post
Found a guy that is running a Carter electric fuel pump with a Weber 38DGAS. He said it runs great with that pump. I like how he mounted it in the stock location. Looks to be a 6-8 psi pump. Also it looks like you could use AN fittings if you wanted


http://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P4600HP/10002/-1

They also have a 4-6 psi pump that may also work.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P40...W1GBoCjzHw_wcB

And they also sell a kit
http://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P4070K/10002/-1
I don't.
It violates everything we know about electric pumps...
They like to push..

they don't like heat.

should be low as possible.

1,2, 3 ....just-a like-a dat.
I suppose it could have been worse...they could have mounted it even high and attached to exhaust manifold..
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 01:01 PM   #24
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJr. View Post
Also what size fuel line do you guys recommend? Will the stock size suffice?
I almost always re-plumb from back--where the fuel pump is supposed to go according to the instructions for every one I've seen and also every OEM electric pump arrangement---
and I use 5/16" brake pipe cause that is big enough and its easier to get brass ends that go to 5/16 barbed for the 8mm hose for the beginning and end bits...
And of course I run the hard line where it is safe from damage and corrosion: inside the car
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 01:09 PM   #25
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971Gold142 View Post
Here is my current setup using a Filter King regulator with separate pressure guage for dual DCOEs on a B20.


 photo VolvoRegGuage1_zpsvvvra174.jpg

 photo VolvoGuage_zpsddqztp8h.jpg
Don't get butt-hurt but can you tell me why you'd leave a gauge installed on something like the fuel pressure that you set and forget? I have done a lotta carb set ups and maybe I'm just dumb--many say that is the case and I tend to agree with them--but what good is a gauge under a closed hood? Or a guage left in line..one more cut, 2 more clamps, one more potential thing to bounce around and break.?

I am confuse.
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.