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Old 09-18-2018, 12:36 PM   #1
curiousCat
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Default 740 NA: Clean Slate for Something More?

Greetings!

Might presently be moving from whiteblock land into a 1990 base 740 (B230F). Mint condition throughout; and looks to be a deal which'd be pretty hard to pass up. However, it likely will require a fistful of sweat-equity to bring all up to normal functional standards on a couple of points.

Pluswise, I like the fact that the 230F is a non-interference design; and that most wearing parts for the mill are still being offered. Even the near-bulletproof AW trans seems to be well supported, nearly 30 years out. Love the body integrity. Good stuff.

So, after taking a look at what the Swedish hill people do to some of these things without immediately throwing a rod,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9xAVanIGdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHl24QynOM

I couldn't help but think there may be some relatively straightforward mods which might allow one to merge and pass on US freeways without constantly taching the poor little redblock out.

To that end, I'm looking at getting a good bit more pull in the 3KRPM range. Indeed, I found this cam set over @ IPD which looks promising as a start:

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/8771...e-cam-kit-b230

Bumping about, I've also gleaned that a 60mm (2.5") exhaust system will help a bit, too; but can't find headers anywhere for the 230 on this side of the pond (help?). Matter of fact, apart from the aforementioned cam kit, I can't find much of anything off-the-shelf for this car in the US which would give it the needed beans.

As an aside, I'm trying to stay out of turboland for now; as the required internal refits would be beyond my workspace/tool means at this juncture. In a nutshell, just looking for basic, modern roadworthiness with perhaps a bit of fun thrown in on top

So, any hints/sources for mods/parts which could put this trusty NA somewhere between leaving a trail of slime on the driveway in the morning and full-out rally insanity would be much appreciated.

Thanx in advance!
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:54 PM   #2
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OP have you considered using a nice 240 series as a starting point for some lethal NA powah? It's commonly accepted that they are much better cars than a 7/9 series. If you do get a 240 and want to go the NA route, I suggest gutting the interior as 240s are also much, much lighter cars than a 7/9 series.
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:09 PM   #3
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OP have you considered using a nice 240 series as a starting point for some lethal NA powah? It's commonly accepted that they are much better cars than a 7/9 series. If you do get a 240 and want to go the NA route, I suggest gutting the interior as 240s are also much, much lighter cars than a 7/9 series.
Blasphemy!

My suggestion would be to be patient and hunt for a factory turbo powered car. You'll be much more satisfied with power delivery.
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:34 PM   #4
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Well, the real reason this is such a good deal at my end is due to the fact that, if all works out, it'll essentially fall into my hands for free. So it's a challenge that seems worth undertaking, despite the added weight and present induction limitations

FWIW, this prospect would also see use as an overall family car; so, while I personally can appreciate zooming about in a gutted crate to a point, it's not feasible here. Weight reduction might be the easiest mod, but wringing out more BHP will be the lion's share of work-at-hand...
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:36 PM   #5
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Blasphemy!

My suggestion would be to be patient and hunt for a factory turbo powered car. You'll be much more satisfied with power delivery.
It's true! 240s have a much larger aftermarket support base!

I suggest finding a clean 240 to start with (the more of the budget you spend on the car, the better), ipd cam, cut the springs, double up the sway bars, gut the interior, straight pipe it maybe put some X tape on the headlights.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:08 PM   #6
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it's true! 240s have a much larger aftermarket support base!
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i suggest finding a clean 740 to start with (the more of the budget you spend on the car, the better), ipd cam, cut the springs, double up the sway bars, gut the interior, straight pipe it maybe put some x tape on the headlights.
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Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna support?

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Old 09-18-2018, 02:20 PM   #7
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Alright, how about looking at the OP from this perspective: What are the sources for B230F performance bolt-ons and the like in the US, and what bits of savvy might be shared regarding setup of the 230F for best low- to midrange torque?

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Old 09-18-2018, 02:23 PM   #8
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Default That's More Than I Paid For The Car!

Restore it to stock, the engineers obviously had torque in mind designing a full sized car with only a 4 banger.

Alternately put a free T cam in there and call it a day or you'll be forced to divide by what you didn't pay for your Volvo RWD ugly duckling.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:27 PM   #9
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Well, the real reason this is such a good deal at my end is due to the fact that, if all works out, it'll essentially fall into my hands for free. So it's a challenge that seems worth undertaking, despite the added weight and present induction limitations

FWIW, this prospect would also see use as an overall family car; so, while I personally can appreciate zooming about in a gutted crate to a point, it's not feasible here. Weight reduction might be the easiest mod, but wringing out more BHP will be the lion's share of work-at-hand...
Ok, real talk my man (or woman, IDK), a NA redblock car is literally about the worst idea for a fun, zoomy car as you can choose. A mint, NA autotragic 740 is a solid DD if maintained... but that's about it. A ipd cam and a larger exhaust will net you like 3.2 hp on even a healthy and ready to mod stage zero'd car. And that's nearly the extent of "off the self" options you have stateside. If you want something to modify, like soclosenotnear said, get a turbo car.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:29 PM   #10
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There is nothing you can do with your budget and skill set that will make any NA auto 2/7/9 8v fast. I will blow your doors off in my half-ass turbo conversion manual trans 240, 100% of the time. And Iíll boast ice cold r134a ac and a locking diff all while doing so.

Seriously. Itís been asked 100s of times. You can throw whatever cam you want at it and an exhaust and itíll still be slower than a factory turbo car with a worn out engine.

Install full standalone system, shave the head (Idk how much) free flowing exhaust, a nasty cam from Sweden, maybe some headwork? Might net you some power but wonít have the torque curve of a turbo car.

Call JohnV. Hell talk to you for 3 hours about **** you donít care about just to get a 5 minute point across.

TL;DR: buy a nice turbo car and turn up the boost.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:36 PM   #11
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Thanks for the input, folks.

So, frankly, what is being said here is that the B230F NA is essentially the auto world's equivalent of a doorstop; incapable of producing anywhere near 100 bhp sans turbo without wrapping the rods around the crank.

True? If false, why not?
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:37 PM   #12
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https://www.acm.se/product/erbjudand...8v-sohc-by-acm


Just plunk down $8k for that /\ and another $8k for a built high-comp, built bottom end and go go go.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by curiousCat View Post
Thanks for the input, folks.

So, frankly, what is being said here is that the B230F NA is essentially the auto world's equivalent of a doorstop; incapable of producing anywhere near 100 bhp sans turbo without wrapping the rods around the crank.

True? If false, why not?
We're not saying that NA redblock horsepower is impossible but it is very expensive compared to turbo redblock horsepower.

Furthermore the engines are basically identical except for the dished pistons and SS exhaust valves on the Turbo cars.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:48 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by SquareD View Post
https://www.acm.se/product/erbjudand...8v-sohc-by-acm


Just plunk down $8k for that /\ and another $8k for a built high-comp, built bottom end and go go go.


+ $16K.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:06 PM   #15
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@PromiseRing: Don't particularly appreciate what might be inferred about my overall "skill level" here. No garage, apartment living. Savvy?

FWIW, just saw this post from a longtime forum member a couple of turns back:

https://forums.tbforums.com/showpost...4&postcount=19

Quote:
Shaving the head to raise compression, throwing the best cam you can find/afford at it and opening up the exhaust will be best bang for the buck hp wise.
A bit more optimistic, perhaps? Seems like a good start; and didn't sound like we were moving in the direction of a budget-killer to me.

Any more info along these lines?
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:21 PM   #16
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Sorry, beyond your workspace and tool collection.

FWIW, it takes more tools to make 15hp on an NA engine than it does to make an additional 50hp by simply adding a turbo.

Or better yet, buy a turbo car that requires 0 tools, then install a MBC for $20 and 0 tools and add even more hp.

And yeah what tuff240 said might be best bang for your buck if you’re staying NA, but it’ll still be slow.

Last edited by PromiseRing; 09-18-2018 at 03:38 PM..
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:22 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by curiousCat View Post
Thanks for the input, folks.

So, frankly, what is being said here is that the B230F NA is essentially the auto world's equivalent of a doorstop; incapable of producing anywhere near 100 bhp sans turbo without wrapping the rods around the crank.

True? If false, why not?
You're being fed utter non-sense at its usual high-level.
For a given fuel--pump gas in this case---torque is pretty much a function of engine volume and dynamic compression ratio.
A relatively low compression engine and an old emissions cam designed by octogenarians equals what you have...and then there's the auto-tragic slush box..

This is an illustration from a technical manual:



Those nice normal aspirated cars you linked to in the video are not driving with automatics and 3.35:1 back axle with 9:1 motors....some were in fact in VOC--Volvo Original Cup and those typically have around 150 hp, no idea on torque, and 4.1 back axle..
But the engines are expensive--every part has been worked to the absolute limit of stock dimensions ie blocks decked to the max the book allows, longest rods that can found stock, head milled to the book max, almost without a doubt K cam..all "stock".
That's not too bad 150 hp...

But YOU are not bound by such rules.

You can carve the fawk off the head and safely take compression out to at least 11;1 and you can use a cam designed to make some power and there's even chips for the ecu to fatten up the fuel and get rid of the stock 6250 rev limit...

There ARE 740 n.a. headers both complete and DYI in kit form..But not here, now. ( I have 2 sets coming over for 240s I am building 2 more motors for road cars, 1 already installed and running...)

But you didn't say what your budget, skills set, tools, and desire is.
And if you're willing to put a decent set of ratios in the gearbox and change final drive..
They ARE geared sky high..My 88 wag-goon is happy to cruise along at 80 mph but I usually take a thick book to read while its getting up there.

Learn to ignore certain people like the spoiled whiner Promisering..He can't change a cam belt without a thread going on for 3 weeks and 200+ posts here. He really should be barred entrance to any performance related or even ordinary service type questions..

Be warned it IS called TURBObricks here, so the answer to every single question is turbocharge it or buy a turbo car. It IS easiest especially for those who have never built an engine and are incapable of taking the head off and getting it back on and having the engine run. There's a few guys that have built decent non-turbo motors although they are old pushrod volvos--but the pathways is the same, the old CCC: Compression, Camshaft, Carburation (now injection)..

Note that the funner-er cars in your vid are, if they're in a 240 or 740 2,3 whikle some of the 940s are 2,5..25 years ago they typical club level B230 powered 240 was making beteen 220 to 235 hp...and you can putter along in stop and go traffic... but the performance you see is from BIG carbs--2 x 48 DCOE Webers is the typical thing, some like Dellorto, some Mikuni motorcycle carbs.The intake manifold runners being THE biggest restriction to make any power over 175 no matter what you do in the engine. The back axle ratios are typically 5,1:1 for the smaller engines and 4.6 or 4.88 in the bigger or more powerful engines.

So tell us about skills, tools, budget.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:27 PM   #18
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+ $16K.

How do you figure "a built bottom end is $8"?

I'm doing 2 more right now--just in to find the damn thrust bearings for engine no2---and they're all getting long rods and custom pistons and the bottom end will be under $2500 with parts and machine shop costs.

The crazy ass heads--yeah they're crazy ass but that's whataboutism at its worst..
Shame on you.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:41 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
You're being fed utter non-sense at its usual high-level.
For a given fuel--pump gas in this case---torque is pretty much a function of engine volume and dynamic compression ratio.
A relatively low compression engine and an old emissions cam designed by octogenarians equals what you have...and then there's the auto-tragic slush box..

This is an illustration from a technical manual:



Those nice normal aspirated cars you linked to in the video are not driving with automatics and 3.35:1 back axle with 9:1 motors....some were in fact in VOC--Volvo Original Cup and those typically have around 150 hp, no idea on torque, and 4.1 back axle..
But the engines are expensive--every part has been worked to the absolute limit of stock dimensions ie blocks decked to the max the book allows, longest rods that can found stock, head milled to the book max, almost without a doubt K cam..all "stock".
That's not too bad 150 hp...

But YOU are not bound by such rules.

You can carve the fawk off the head and safely take compression out to at least 11;1 and you can use a cam designed to make some power and there's even chips for the ecu to fatten up the fuel and get rid of the stock 6250 rev limit...

There ARE 740 n.a. headers both complete and DYI in kit form..But not here, now. ( I have 2 sets coming over for 240s I am building 2 more motors for road cars, 1 already installed and running...)

But you didn't say what your budget, skills set, tools, and desire is.
And if you're willing to put a decent set of ratios in the gearbox and change final drive..
They ARE geared sky high..My 88 wag-goon is happy to cruise along at 80 mph but I usually take a thick book to read while its getting up there.

Learn to ignore certain people like the spoiled whiner Promisering..He can't change a cam belt without a thread going on for 3 weeks and 200+ posts here. He really should be barred entrance to any performance related or even ordinary service type questions..

Be warned it IS called TURBObricks here, so the answer to every single question is turbocharge it or buy a turbo car. It IS easiest especially for those who have never built an engine and are incapable of taking the head off and getting it back on and having the engine run. There's a few guys that have built decent non-turbo motors although they are old pushrod volvos--but the pathways is the same, the old CCC: Compression, Camshaft, Carburation (now injection)..

Note that the funner-er cars in your vid are, if they're in a 240 or 740 2,3 whikle some of the 940s are 2,5..25 years ago they typical club level B230 powered 240 was making beteen 220 to 235 hp...and you can putter along in stop and go traffic... but the performance you see is from BIG carbs--2 x 48 DCOE Webers is the typical thing, some like Dellorto, some Mikuni motorcycle carbs.The intake manifold runners being THE biggest restriction to make any power over 175 no matter what you do in the engine. The back axle ratios are typically 5,1:1 for the smaller engines and 4.6 or 4.88 in the bigger or more powerful engines.

So tell us about skills, tools, budget.
Timing belt is sub 30 minutes dude knocked one out yesterday along with a cam seal in 25 minutes flat.

Your guysí insults are weak sauce.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:45 PM   #20
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How do you figure "a built bottom end is $8"?

I'm doing 2 more right now--just in to find the damn thrust bearings for engine no2---and they're all getting long rods and custom pistons and the bottom end will be under $2500 with parts and machine shop costs.

The crazy ass heads--yeah they're crazy ass but that's whataboutism at its worst..
Shame on you.





NA 8v are fine, so are 7/9 series.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:54 PM   #21
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Timing belt is sub 30 minutes dude knocked one out yesterday along with a cam seal in 25 minutes flat.

Your guysí insults are weak sauce.
You're weak everywhere...here is just an example--you say call John V and he'll talk 3 hours to make a 5 minute point... weak

From this side it seems "My gawd what a f***ing ret***, that little snot-nosed kid is SOOOOooooooooooooooOOOO dumb, so completely clueless, that it took FOREVER to answer the simplest thing...
That's not just you, although your 200+ post threads for stuff in any service manual show you are even worse than the average know-nothing, but a general trend..

Now then...since we know you have ZERO experience building any performance engines--why don't you go troll somewhere else where your brilliance and wit are fully appreciated???
Do you have some promise to keep?
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
How do you figure "a built bottom end is $8"?

I'm doing 2 more right now--just in to find the damn thrust bearings for engine no2---and they're all getting long rods and custom pistons and the bottom end will be under $2500 with parts and machine shop costs.

The crazy ass heads--yeah they're crazy ass but that's whataboutism at its worst..
Shame on you.
All for $14.99 right John?
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Old 09-18-2018, 04:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
You're weak everywhere...here is just an example--you say call John V and he'll talk 3 hours to make a 5 minute point... weak

From this side it seems "My gawd what a f***ing ret***, that little snot-nosed kid is SOOOOooooooooooooooOOOO dumb, so completely clueless, that it took FOREVER to answer the simplest thing...
That's not just you, although your 200+ post threads for stuff in any service manual show you are even worse than the average know-nothing, but a general trend..

Now then...since we know you have ZERO experience building any performance engines--why don't you go troll somewhere else where your brilliance and wit are fully appreciated???
Do you have some promise to keep?
Heard that lmao

Donít need to build an engine to hold the boost that Iím happy dailying. Bottom end is good for 300+ whp and my trans is good for 75ft-lbs of torque, so Iím staying conservative here.
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Old 09-18-2018, 04:23 PM   #24
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Heard that lmao

Donít need to build an engine to hold the boost that Iím happy dailying. Bottom end is good for 300+ whp and my trans is good for 75ft-lbs of torque, so Iím staying conservative here.
What bottom end ?
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Old 09-18-2018, 04:26 PM   #25
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SBE.
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