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Impromptu dyno intercooler testing.

linuxman51 said:
you're not really saying anything. If it's restrictive at ~10psi and 200ish hp worth of airflow, it's not like it's suddenly going to *not* be restrictive at 300 or 400hp and 20+psi, that's not really how that works.

further, the numbers are right there-and directly related to the pressure loss across the core.
Click to expand...

I believe as airflow/pressure/temperature increases, it's an exponential loss.
Though someone who did better than a C in fluid dynamics should probably chime in on that statement.
 
vwbusman66 said:
I believe as airflow/pressure/temperature increases, it's an exponential loss.
Though someone who did better than a C in fluid dynamics should probably chime in on that statement.
Click to expand...

better than the grade I have in it (I didn't take it ;) )
 
Hi, interesting results.

However, I have some difficulties in explaining this from a physical point of view.

Let's assume power output is proportional to mass flow trough the engine.
And, that mass flow is (among displacement and rpm) a function of 1:volumetric efficiency, 2:manifold pressure, and 3:manifold temperature.

For the sake of argument, let us assume 1 and 2 remain unchanged (in practice boost will differ if intercooler restriction differs and the WG is plumbed directly from the compressor housing).

A decrease in power of 13% (ebay vs garrett) roughly corresponds to a inlet temperature increase of 40 degrees celsius (ideal gas law).
I have been doing quite some data logging with the ebay IC, and although I have not been running huge amounts of boost, I have not seen higher than 20 degrees above ambient at max.

Also, when swapping the 940 cooler for the ebay cooler (12x24) my boost increased by 0.2-0.3 bar. Yet when direct swapping a stock one for a ebay cooler, you lose power?

How did you control boost? Manifold pressure the same for all runs?
Edit: Ok, some more careful reading, so you see less boost with the ebay core vs the garret. Is this also the case for the stock 940 one? Because my results have shown the opposite. Maybe it's a different cooler, although it looks the same.
 
Last edited:
Very interesting write up. Thanks for posting!

I will say this however, I upgraded my standard Volvo intercooler (car is a 244T) to a Do88 and was VERY surprised at the difference it made. No Dyno testing, just driving, but there is a very noticeable increase in power. Maybe that's because the Volvo unit was old and tired, not sure...
 
Swedbrick said:
Has anyone here tried the mishimoto stuff? Prices seem resonoable and specs are given in terms of airflow and pressure drop
Click to expand...

I've seen them online but haven't had one in hand, would be interesting to test.

Sjeng said:
Hi, interesting results.

However, I have some difficulties in explaining this from a physical point of view.

Let's assume power output is proportional to mass flow trough the engine.
And, that mass flow is (among displacement and rpm) a function of 1:volumetric efficiency, 2:manifold pressure, and 3:manifold temperature.

For the sake of argument, let us assume 1 and 2 remain unchanged (in practice boost will differ if intercooler restriction differs and the WG is plumbed directly from the compressor housing).

A decrease in power of 13% (ebay vs garrett) roughly corresponds to a inlet temperature increase of 40 degrees celsius (ideal gas law).
I have been doing quite some data logging with the ebay IC, and although I have not been running huge amounts of boost, I have not seen higher than 20 degrees above ambient at max.

Also, when swapping the 940 cooler for the ebay cooler (12x24) my boost increased by 0.2-0.3 bar. Yet when direct swapping a stock one for a ebay cooler, you lose power?

How did you control boost? Manifold pressure the same for all runs?
Edit: Ok, some more careful reading, so you see less boost with the ebay core vs the garret. Is this also the case for the stock 940 one? Because my results have shown the opposite. Maybe it's a different cooler, although it looks the same.
Click to expand...

the stock intercooler was in the middle of the pressure at the inlet (Which makes sense regarding where it landed on the power curve). And listen-this is not a condemnation of *all* ebay intercoolers, however the 3in bar and plate style that everyone tends to buy (the one that frequently can be bought ... well, used to frequently be able to be bought for around $100usd), that's what you're looking at here.

I said it in a couple different spots, and I mean it.. I'm sure you can get decent performing ebay intercoolers, certainly decent for the average t-bricker power levels... but for similar money you might be able to get something from treadstone or precision that may fit easier, or have a higher known ceiling, etc. That's always the trade-off though with performance stuff haha.

Really, I shared it because it's been such an oft repeated (even by myself) mantra of 'ebay intercooler exhaust, cam, toon and win!', and you don't want to spend time and money on a modification that effectively sandbags you going forward.


Murploid1 said:
Very interesting write up. Thanks for posting!

I will say this however, I upgraded my standard Volvo intercooler (car is a 244T) to a Do88 and was VERY surprised at the difference it made. No Dyno testing, just driving, but there is a very noticeable increase in power. Maybe that's because the Volvo unit was old and tired, not sure...
Click to expand...

the do88 stuff seems to be pretty good, I "feel like" the one on my R is much better than the stock intercooler it had, but tbh I didn't do any kind of checking before or after.
 
1-3 gear pull using ebay cooler. S200G turbo @ 1bar and 16V engine.
Large thermal mass is evident from slow temperature changes.

 
^ that says nothing about airflow (and thus hp) through the core, given the mass of the ebay cores I'm reasonably sure they do alright at temperature rejection. Also, which ebay core?

we've got another intercooler we'll add to the test in the coming bit, if someone wants to shoot over an npr I can toss that into the mix as well. I haven't put the big one back on the gold car yet, so we can see how everything stacks up in different weather when the time comes.
 
I appreciate the testing and info. Big question can you get to big of a intercooler. Seeing some people getting a ford diesel truck intercooler. Which this will probably open a whole new can of worms.
 
linuxman51 said:
^ that says nothing about airflow (and thus hp) through the core, given the mass of the ebay cores I'm reasonably sure they do alright at temperature rejection. Also, which ebay core?

we've got another intercooler we'll add to the test in the coming bit, if someone wants to shoot over an npr I can toss that into the mix as well. I haven't put the big one back on the gold car yet, so we can see how everything stacks up in different weather when the time comes.
Click to expand...

AliExpress 300x600x76.

My observations regarding airflow I already posted earlier in this thread.
0.2 bar MAP increase over stock 940 cooler, untouched wastegate.

I do not sell these things, and I praise you for your work.
From a physical point of view I have difficulties explaining the observed differences.
 
I just recieved today a treadstone intercooler, man a big weight difference compared to the ebay ic. So I have an ebay intercooler for sale for cheap if anybody wants it. Will let you know the difference so temps and feel. No I dont have a dyno near by on butt dyno.
 
I bought a big garrett core and pulled in a few tread stone cast end tanks to check out... terrible quality. Ugly rough castings, the face wasn’t even close to flat, volume is too small, their baffle design sucks, the mounting bosses are huge protuberances into the flow path.

I should grab pictures, honestly they are dog ****. My old CX Racing tanks are way better. Also call treadstone and start asking about custom stuff and you better have low expectations, I’d be surprised if they even weld anything themselves based on my phone call.
 
that's not good to hear. their cores themselves though are still good (so, whoever makes those... kudos lol)
 
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