• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

Lemons 745 Suspension Advice

rb92673

rb92673

racecar
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Location
San Clemente
I have a 1985 745T Lemons car that I bought off another racer. I have done two races at Buttonwillow and the suspension is super floppy, and I believe my rear brake lockups are due to nose dive.

We are severely budget limited for upgrades, but I need to do something to be a little faster and stop the rears from locking to keep up with 150 other cars on the same track at the same time.

I pulled the suspension off my car yesterday and it had Bilstein Touring all the way around, all the shocks were totally blown. I could compress them easily with one finger.

1985 Volvo 745T, 230FT (stock boost), M46
15 Wheels with 205/50/15s
~25mm front bar, none in rear.
Track only, not street registered.

Here is what I am thinking:
Front:
- Bilstein HDs (I don't think Judges can tell if it's a Bilstein or KYB as long as it is not adjustable)
- 2.5" ID Coilover springs, 300lbs?, 14 or 16 inches? I really don't know. I think it has stock springs, certainly cut, they measure about 15" top to bottom. I don't want it slammed. I could use some suggestions.
- 2.5" ID strut top. I don't understand how those would fit into the upper bearing. Do I just remove the rubber coil spring bump stop?
- I want to use the existing lower perch for budget reasons, I would use some PVC pipe to center.

Rear
- Bilstein HDs or KYB Gas-adjust (for budget reasons since these are easily viewable)
- Is there a stock spring that would match up well with 300 lbs up front and still fit in the stock hardware? I saw the Moog-8599 that seems similar (13.3 length 249lb spring rate), but I don't know if it will fit in the stock upper mount. Previous owner welded in a 3" x 3" exhaust tube on the lower perch, presumably to keep the coil in place at full droop. Existing coil does not look cut or progressive and measures about 14" long.

I am also going to max the camber by re-drilling at the top.

Thanks.
 
rb92673 said:
I have a 1985 745T Lemons car that I bought off another racer. I have done two races at Buttonwillow and the suspension is super floppy, and I believe my rear brake lockups are due to nose dive.

We are severely budget limited for upgrades, but I need to do something to be a little faster and stop the rears from locking to keep up with 150 other cars on the same track at the same time.

I pulled the suspension off my car yesterday and it had Bilstein Touring all the way around, all the shocks were totally blown. I could compress them easily with one finger.

1985 Volvo 745T, 230FT (stock boost), M46
15 Wheels with 205/50/15s
~25mm front bar, none in rear.
Track only, not street registered.

Here is what I am thinking:
Front:
- Bilstein HDs (I don't think Judges can tell if it's a Bilstein or KYB as long as it is not adjustable)
- 2.5" ID Coilover springs, 300lbs?, 14 or 16 inches? I really don't know. I think it has stock springs, certainly cut, they measure about 15" top to bottom. I don't want it slammed. I could use some suggestions.
- 2.5" ID strut top. I don't understand how those would fit into the upper bearing. Do I just remove the rubber coil spring bump stop?
- I want to use the existing lower perch for budget reasons, I would use some PVC pipe to center.

Rear
- Bilstein HDs or KYB Gas-adjust (for budget reasons since these are easily viewable)
- Is there a stock spring that would match up well with 300 lbs up front and still fit in the stock hardware? I saw the Moog-8599 that seems similar (13.3 length 249lb spring rate), but I don't know if it will fit in the stock upper mount. Previous owner welded in a 3" x 3" exhaust tube on the lower perch, presumably to keep the coil in place at full droop. Existing coil does not look cut or progressive and measures about 14" long.

I am also going to max the camber by re-drilling at the top.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

If you buy these spring perches, you can mate a 2.5" Coilover spring to the factory strut mount.


https://www.kaplhenke.com/collections/700-900-volvo-parts/products/luxe-steer


Dont worry about running a coilover sized spring versus an aftermarket stock sized springs. The judges dont care, they usually assess the car by rocking it by hand to determine the roll stiffness.

If you run Bilsteins and 300 lb springs they will know its modified.. they wont care
 
blkaplan said:
If you buy these spring perches, you can mate a 2.5" Coilover spring to the factory strut mount.


https://www.kaplhenke.com/collections/700-900-volvo-parts/products/luxe-steer


Dont worry about running a coilover sized spring versus an aftermarket stock sized springs. The judges dont care, they usually assess the car by rocking it by hand to determine the roll stiffness.

If you run Bilsteins and 300 lb springs they will know its modified.. they wont care
Click to expand...

Thanks, there appears to be 5 different options on that page, which do you suggest? Base Plate Retrofit, Spring Perches? Do those work with the stock bearing?

They laughed at my car when they did the rocking test and stuck me in B last time. I am just trying to stay within the spirit of lemons. I did get a residual value so that I could upgrade the front end.

Thanks.
 
tryingbe said:
You can always bring beer to bribe the judges...
Click to expand...
:) :)
We always try and bring them something, I am just trying to stay within the spirit of the rules. I have done 10+ races, but most of the cars I have raced have been British or French, which were slow for even C class. Suspension on some of those have been rubber cones, hydrolastic and hydrogas.

I would like to stay into a budget of less than $500 total for the upgrades.
 
rb92673 said:
Thanks, there appears to be 5 different options on that page, which do you suggest? Base Plate Retrofit, Spring Perches? Do those work with the stock bearing?

They laughed at my car when they did the rocking test and stuck me in B last time. I am just trying to stay within the spirit of lemons. I did get a residual value so that I could upgrade the front end.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

You need the "spring perch" option.

Yes they work with the stock bearings.
 
I have a chumpcar 740 as well.


for the rear cut wagon springs work nice.
the fronts you can either order the kit above or cobble your own thing together. but you need to be able to put in some 350+ lb springs in.



When you pull the rear trailing arms have someone box them in with a plate.
Also try boxing in the rear subframe center section. like this.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=6849b6646bee440ec5095b4c91b0cb57&oe=5B43A738

after a few weeks of hitting the yards i found a 4.10 g80 locker rear end.
it really helped off the line.
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=ae6ab4abd70828fd31e3e138ab4f982c&oe=5B046806



FYI I would look into the double swap bar mod..
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=e80c7887e38aa0f29197c9da88d1165e&oe=5B08BAFF

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=a404b791772ff9ea0a9fadbadb7cff9c&oe=5B498A97

Good luck out there. add me on facebook if you get bored. would love to share ideas
Justin Foden

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=5527f06ce5783f4365b68c202dfdaf63&oe=5B0B597B
 
"I pulled the suspension off my car yesterday and it had Bilstein Touring all the way around, all the shocks were totally blown. I could compress them easily with one finger."

Start over with working shocks.... Im sure a fairly stock car with great shocks will beat a highly modified car with crappy shocks.

Seriously unless there is some reason you have to use a 700, there are a whole lot of better chassis to choose from. (I hate struts they were not made for turning corners)
Think before picking your poison! I have made this mistake many times.
 
Last edited:
masterjr33 said:
I have a chumpcar 740 as well.


for the rear cut wagon springs work nice.
the fronts you can either order the kit above or cobble your own thing together. but you need to be able to put in some 350+ lb springs in.



When you pull the rear trailing arms have someone box them in with a plate.
Also try boxing in the rear subframe center section. like this.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=6849b6646bee440ec5095b4c91b0cb57&oe=5B43A738

after a few weeks of hitting the yards i found a 4.10 g80 locker rear end.
it really helped off the line.
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=ae6ab4abd70828fd31e3e138ab4f982c&oe=5B046806



FYI I would look into the double swap bar mod..
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=e80c7887e38aa0f29197c9da88d1165e&oe=5B08BAFF

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=a404b791772ff9ea0a9fadbadb7cff9c&oe=5B498A97

Good luck out there. add me on facebook if you get bored. would love to share ideas
Justin Foden

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=5527f06ce5783f4365b68c202dfdaf63&oe=5B0B597B
Click to expand...

You don?t want more bar, you want less.
 
Soft rear as possible
no rear arb
modify the ackermann
no G80 or a welded diff, both is stupid and really dangerous on the track. Yes it will help of the line, after this it will be worse than a open diff. Better tyres are waaaaaay more helpfull

good luck, Kay
 
mocambique-amazone said:
Soft rear as possible
no rear arb
modify the ackermann
no G80 or a welded diff, both is stupid and really dangerous on the track. Yes it will help of the line, after this it will be worse than a open diff. Better tyres are waaaaaay more helpfull

good luck, Kay
Click to expand...

Explain why a G80 or welded is dangerous. What about a Trutrack?

rb92673 said:
Do you mean the rear roll bar? It currently has none.
Click to expand...

Yup!
 
masterjr33 said:
I have a chumpcar 740 as well.


for the rear cut wagon springs work nice.
the fronts you can either order the kit above or cobble your own thing together. but you need to be able to put in some 350+ lb springs in.



When you pull the rear trailing arms have someone box them in with a plate.
Also try boxing in the rear subframe center section. like this.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=6849b6646bee440ec5095b4c91b0cb57&oe=5B43A738

after a few weeks of hitting the yards i found a 4.10 g80 locker rear end.
it really helped off the line.
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=ae6ab4abd70828fd31e3e138ab4f982c&oe=5B046806



FYI I would look into the double swap bar mod..
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=e80c7887e38aa0f29197c9da88d1165e&oe=5B08BAFF

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=a404b791772ff9ea0a9fadbadb7cff9c&oe=5B498A97

Good luck out there. add me on facebook if you get bored. would love to share ideas
Justin Foden

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=5527f06ce5783f4365b68c202dfdaf63&oe=5B0B597B
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice on sprint rate in front and boxing the trailing arms. I am going to hold off on rear bar and rear end for a bit.
 
Dirty Rick said:
"I pulled the suspension off my car yesterday and it had Bilstein Touring all the way around, all the shocks were totally blown. I could compress them easily with one finger."

Start over with working shocks.... Im sure a fairly stock car with great shocks will beat a highly modified car with crappy shocks.

Seriously unless there is some reason you have to use a 700, there are a whole lot of better chassis to choose from. (I hate struts they were not made for turning corners)
Think before picking your poison! I have made this mistake many times.
Click to expand...

Well I already have the car and it is already caged and ready to go. My investment is very low in this car. Parts are fairly cheap and the b230ft seems very reliable for budget endurance racing.
 
I am seeing a few bits of irrelevant advice.... (mostly about the chassis and diff)

I drove this car at Laguna Seca in January

VMEZJ49.jpg


Specs

-Welded diff
-Cut factory springs
-Konis all around
-Fresh bushings
-Strut brace I think
-iPD sways front and back

Stuck to the track like a magnet. The team was running very well [Lucky Dog, WAY more competitive than Lemons, however they run Lemons too and usually are a top 5-10 team] 2 hours in until an oil line blew. I only got to drive it because I was willing to jam an hour and a half to go get the oil line for them off my car. I was extremely impressed with the car for how much is done to it.

As you can see, it also has upgraded brakes. I can't stress how important having big brakes that stop and don't wear out after 1 day is. Good tires are important not just for handling, but braking too.

I also agree with boxing parts of the suspension.

Was the 745 you bought the one that Evil Genius caged?
 
Last edited:
doucheNozzle said:
You don?t want more bar, you want less.
Click to expand...

soo.. i have a dead stock 740..
to go faster i should take off the sway bars? to make them softer..

so taking a stock 740. and an IPD sway bar 740 around the course the stock 740 would be faster than the IPD sway bar car? because the factory bars are softer than the IPD bars?
:nod::nod::nod::nod:
 
pat244ti said:
Was the 745 you bought the one that Evil Genius caged?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Yes I bought this off Pagel and got it running again.

Is that the Swedish Knievals car?

We did the Lucky 24@Buttonwillow last month and we came in 5th out of 20 some cars by just running lots of laps and no break downs. There were no other Volvos there.

I went ahead and ordered some Bilstein HDs for the front, KYB Gas Adjusts for rear (super cheap). I am going to try messing around with coilovers in front and heavier springs in the rear and see how it does. I went through the set of front pads that came with the car at the 24 hour race, so I am replacing with some ST-43s I got from Porterfield to match the rears.

If you are at the Thunderhill Lemons race in May, please stop by and say hi to me. Robb.
 
rb92673 said:
Thanks for the info. Yes I bought this off Pagel and got it running again.

Is that the Swedish Knievals car?

We did the Lucky 24@Buttonwillow last month and we came in 5th out of 20 some cars by just running lots of laps and no break downs. There were no other Volvos there.

I went ahead and ordered some Bilstein HDs for the front, KYB Gas Adjusts for rear (super cheap). I am going to try messing around with coilovers in front and heavier springs in the rear and see how it does. I went through the set of front pads that came with the car at the 24 hour race, so I am replacing with some ST-43s I got from Porterfield to match the rears.

If you are at the Thunderhill Lemons race in May, please stop by and say hi to me. Robb.
Click to expand...

Havent tried that Porterfield compound, we have been running R4's on our cars. Seems to work great, our only issue for a bit was the back end was a little too high and created lockups/some unsteadiness under heavy braking.

I will be running the Olympus Rally in May which falls on the same weekend as Lemons - but I will be running Sonoma in two weeks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top