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Old 07-24-2020, 09:18 PM   #26
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I'm using the water/oil cooler off a 940T, thank you very much. I also have a crank scraper, just FYI.
Just saying; if you are pushing hard enough to need to worry about this, you will want to run a real oil cooler.

A lot cheaper than a cooked engine, or a even just a wasted track day.
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Old 07-26-2020, 12:32 PM   #27
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Why isn't the oil to water oil cooler heat exchanger thing real enough for you? Volvo thought they where. They do have a bigger radiator in those cars.
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Old 07-26-2020, 10:05 PM   #28
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Why isn't the oil to water oil cooler heat exchanger thing real enough for you? Volvo thought they where. They do have a bigger radiator in those cars.
Right and I have that bigger radiator in my 242 to support it. Good enough for 6.8L John Deere turbo diesel as well.
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Old 09-24-2020, 03:28 PM   #29
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Added a hump to the oil pan.. Taking the car to TGP tomorrow for testing and Barbers again on the 3-4. Hopefully the issue wont happen anymore.. I'll keep the group updated. Here's some pics..




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Old 09-25-2020, 12:11 AM   #30
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nice
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:53 PM   #31
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How’d it go, Sam? Your only change was the pipe? I would think that the design doesn’t drain back into the pickup area great, as it introduces a hump between the two low spots?

Dana, what are you using to control your Accusump? Or do you just leave it on all the time? We run one as needed and used to have a driver activated switch. That solenoid failed so now we have a manual control valve, but have to pit to turn it on.

As long as the oil level has been right at the max level, we haven’t normally had a problem. But, at ORP in July we were having problems and even with the Accusump on it didn’t seem to be helping. That being said, we had a loose connection on our oil pressure sending unit so I can’t 100% confirm everything, other than the oil level now is nearer the minimum mark on the dipstick.

Our problems are also after hard braking and mid-corner. We’ve tried baffled pans in the past, a pipe on the side in the past, ans can’t confirm that anything was definitely better. One trap door setup was actually worse, and maybe that one or another had a plate fail that ended up moving around in the pan and blocking the oil pickup. So, for the last three years we’ve been running a stock pan and using the Accusump when needed. If the oil was at the full mark it was almost always ok. We went to wider tires this year though, so grip levels are higher.

Here’s a video from last year when the oil level was a bit low. https://youtu.be/bHTkPCQ5ZLU
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Old 10-08-2020, 09:35 AM   #32
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I like the drain on it and how it adds to total volume, interested to hear how it worked.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:14 AM   #33
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I forgot to mention that if we overfill our crankcase above the maximum mark, it usually pops up the dipstick and makes a mess everywhere. Erland(Cox) was telling me that on his race car(s) they pop out if the oil level is above halfway on the dipstick.
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Old 10-12-2020, 10:44 PM   #34
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How’d it go, Sam? Your only change was the pipe? I would think that the design doesn’t drain back into the pickup area great, as it introduces a hump between the two low spots?

Dana, what are you using to control your Accusump? Or do you just leave it on all the time? We run one as needed and used to have a driver activated switch. That solenoid failed so now we have a manual control valve, but have to pit to turn it on.

As long as the oil level has been right at the max level, we haven’t normally had a problem. But, at ORP in July we were having problems and even with the Accusump on it didn’t seem to be helping. That being said, we had a loose connection on our oil pressure sending unit so I can’t 100% confirm everything, other than the oil level now is nearer the minimum mark on the dipstick.

Our problems are also after hard braking and mid-corner. We’ve tried baffled pans in the past, a pipe on the side in the past, ans can’t confirm that anything was definitely better. One trap door setup was actually worse, and maybe that one or another had a plate fail that ended up moving around in the pan and blocking the oil pickup. So, for the last three years we’ve been running a stock pan and using the Accusump when needed. If the oil was at the full mark it was almost always ok. We went to wider tires this year though, so grip levels are higher.

Here’s a video from last year when the oil level was a bit low. https://youtu.be/bHTkPCQ5ZLU
Kyle; We tried just opening the manual valve to top up as needed but found that was really sketchy and prone to driver error, so for the past 4 years we pressurize the AccuSump with 60 psi oil close the valve and set the pan level at just slightly more than full (extra 1/2 litre) before an event. Once we have the motor started in the morning we open the valve and leave it open for the entire race day, it automatically pressure balances the system as needed. We have not had any oil related issues at all. Dana
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Old 10-13-2020, 11:13 AM   #35
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Kyle; We tried just opening the manual valve to top up as needed but found that was really sketchy and prone to driver error, so for the past 4 years we pressurize the AccuSump with 60 psi oil close the valve and set the pan level at just slightly more than full (extra 1/2 litre) before an event. Once we have the motor started in the morning we open the valve and leave it open for the entire race day, it automatically pressure balances the system as needed. We have not had any oil related issues at all. Dana
Any details on where you added the accusump into your system? I already have two sandwich adapters on my B230ft, one to the oil cooler and another for the remote oil filter. I am thinking about running a T off the filtered oil to go directly to the turbo, so my oil system is getting complicated.
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Old 10-13-2020, 01:03 PM   #36
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Is it better? Maybe? but still seeing signs of starvation.. notice the dash when my hands get out of the way at the 10:12 mark you can briefly see the oil light flash and the center gauge in front of the shifter is the oil pressure gauge.. Its electric so its slow to react but you can see it swing low briefly on exiting that turn.. I am wondering if the oil is sloshing forward under hard braking and that is causing the starvation? at first i thought it was because the oil was sliding up the side of the block but now i'm not so sure.




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Originally Posted by klr142 View Post
How’d it go, Sam? Your only change was the pipe? I would think that the design doesn’t drain back into the pickup area great, as it introduces a hump between the two low spots?

Dana, what are you using to control your Accusump? Or do you just leave it on all the time? We run one as needed and used to have a driver activated switch. That solenoid failed so now we have a manual control valve, but have to pit to turn it on.

As long as the oil level has been right at the max level, we haven’t normally had a problem. But, at ORP in July we were having problems and even with the Accusump on it didn’t seem to be helping. That being said, we had a loose connection on our oil pressure sending unit so I can’t 100% confirm everything, other than the oil level now is nearer the minimum mark on the dipstick.

Our problems are also after hard braking and mid-corner. We’ve tried baffled pans in the past, a pipe on the side in the past, ans can’t confirm that anything was definitely better. One trap door setup was actually worse, and maybe that one or another had a plate fail that ended up moving around in the pan and blocking the oil pickup. So, for the last three years we’ve been running a stock pan and using the Accusump when needed. If the oil was at the full mark it was almost always ok. We went to wider tires this year though, so grip levels are higher.

Here’s a video from last year when the oil level was a bit low. https://youtu.be/bHTkPCQ5ZLU
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Old 10-13-2020, 01:06 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by dkrause View Post
Kyle; We tried just opening the manual valve to top up as needed but found that was really sketchy and prone to driver error, so for the past 4 years we pressurize the AccuSump with 60 psi oil close the valve and set the pan level at just slightly more than full (extra 1/2 litre) before an event. Once we have the motor started in the morning we open the valve and leave it open for the entire race day, it automatically pressure balances the system as needed. We have not had any oil related issues at all. Dana
Thanks Dana. We'll probably give that method a whirl. The last race at ORP might have been giving false low oil pressure readings because one of the wiring terminals on our oil pressure sending unit had lost its nut, so the connection was loose. Hard to say for sure, at this point!

The only problems I see with your setup is that our car will typically pop the dipstick up when we overfill it, and you can't easily check the oil level mid-race without some solid dedication and focus which is sometimes hard to come by, haha. The ring seal on the #4 cylinder is not as good as it once was, so maybe it'll be ok with the next motor. We might zip tie the dipstick down for the next race at PIR in a week and a half.
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Old 10-13-2020, 02:23 PM   #38
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Thanks Dana. We'll probably give that method a whirl. The last race at ORP might have been giving false low oil pressure readings because one of the wiring terminals on our oil pressure sending unit had lost its nut, so the connection was loose. Hard to say for sure, at this point!

The only problems I see with your setup is that our car will typically pop the dipstick up when we overfill it, and you can't easily check the oil level mid-race without some solid dedication and focus which is sometimes hard to come by, haha. The ring seal on the #4 cylinder is not as good as it once was, so maybe it'll be ok with the next motor. We might zip tie the dipstick down for the next race at PIR in a week and a half.
Kyle;
If you follow our procedure the wet sump is not over full, the fluid only moves from the AccuSump when the engine pressure drops and that is typically only when the oil has moved away from the the pickup. As soon as the pump gets oil again and pressure builds the oil returns to the AccuSump, leaving the wet sump at the same level. Dana
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Old 10-13-2020, 03:21 PM   #39
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Kyle;
If you follow our procedure the wet sump is not over full, the fluid only moves from the AccuSump when the engine pressure drops and that is typically only when the oil has moved away from the the pickup. As soon as the pump gets oil again and pressure builds the oil returns to the AccuSump, leaving the wet sump at the same level. Dana
I was thinking the 0.5L of overfilling was going to be an issue, but now that I think about it more, we may have run that successfully in the past. When shutting the engine off we can't check the current oil level unless the valve is shut back off at high rpm. Either way, we haven't been consuming more than 0.5-0.75L over 6-8hrs of racing in the past, so it should be fine as long as that remains the case. We'll give it a whirl and compare it to what we experienced last time at PIR, when we were not bothering with the accusump because the oil pressure was usually fine. After the race is when I found out that Marc had been seeing the oil pressure light more frequently than I... Oops!
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Old 10-13-2020, 05:37 PM   #40
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Does anyone have pictures of a Group A pan? I haven’t tried searching for any yet. Erland suggested they’re available but expensive.

Marc just sent me this link to some modified pans: https://www.kohlerracing.se/cat_3.ph...69&&prod_id=69
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File Type: jpeg 94EDD6B7-17A3-402A-BC89-25A3F7A995D0.jpeg (135.0 KB, 150 views)
File Type: jpg B322B86A-3AB6-4632-9F15-F4CF90BDB690.jpg (53.6 KB, 148 views)

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Old 10-13-2020, 06:04 PM   #41
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Looks like a normal road race pan from canton, moroso, milodon etc.
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Old 10-14-2020, 06:48 AM   #42
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I forgot to mention that if we overfill our crankcase above the maximum mark, it usually pops up the dipstick and makes a mess everywhere. Erland(Cox) was telling me that on his race car(s) they pop out if the oil level is above halfway on the dipstick.
The same thing happens with the B18B in our 1800S race car, and Erland is correct, as it sure does make a mess. Another possible issue is some of the oil may also be getting on the rear tires as well.
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Old 10-14-2020, 02:16 PM   #43
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The same thing happens with the B18B in our 1800S race car, and Erland is correct, as it sure does make a mess. Another possible issue is some of the oil may also be getting on the rear tires as well.
There is only one reason the dipstick pushes out, which is that the internal pressure in the crankcase is TOO high (and/or dipstick seal o-rings are failing and do not have adequate seal friction), but most likely either the vent sizing is too small (or blocked) and/or the engine has excessive blow by. If the oil level is lower it may just push out "gases" and not appear as bad as when the oil reaches the bottom of the dip tube and burps all over everything. I know of a number of very highly tuned B1800 and B 200 series race engines that are still shinny clean after a race, time to solve your issue.
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Old 10-15-2020, 07:45 AM   #44
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There is only one reason the dipstick pushes out, which is that the internal pressure in the crankcase is TOO high (and/or dipstick seal o-rings are failing and do not have adequate seal friction), but most likely either the vent sizing is too small (or blocked) and/or the engine has excessive blow by. If the oil level is lower it may just push out "gases" and not appear as bad as when the oil reaches the bottom of the dip tube and burps all over everything. I know of a number of very highly tuned B1800 and B 200 series race engines that are still shinny clean after a race, time to solve your issue.
After running it in eight two-day race meets and two hill climbs totaling over 900 racing miles the dip stick was pushed up only once so it really isn't an issue. Its also possible that the dipstick wasn't pushed all the way in before one of the races.

The oil catch can is connected to an unrestricted oil cap breather and a large diameter breather hose and after all of these race meets no oil or mist has ended up in the catch can. The breather on the side of the engine and the hose to the intake manifold isn't restricted either, and the crankshaft oil seals don't leak and a leak-down test was normal so its unlikely it has excessive blow-by.

Crankshaft windage at high RPM is also a known cause that contributes to crankcase pressure-build up.
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Old 10-15-2020, 10:30 AM   #45
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I just had a thought. We have a hose with a small flame trap of sorts at the end of it that goes from the top of the factory breather box to a catch can, but the hose terminates at the bottom of the catch can. We also don’t get much oil in there at all, but because the hose goes all the way to the bottom, it could be restricting flow. I’ll trim it shorter to make sure it’s not getting capped off by the catch can.
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Old 10-21-2020, 05:58 PM   #46
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My thought above is a bit bogus, there's an air gap there but if we filled up with much oil it might be a problem.

Also, Erland said he's doing an oil pan soon and will take pictures.
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Old 10-21-2020, 08:17 PM   #47
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Why isn't the oil to water oil cooler heat exchanger thing real enough for you? Volvo thought they where. They do have a bigger radiator in those cars.
Sorry for missing this. If you've got room for a "big enough" radiator, and you're not worried about oil-water heat exchanger failure, then sure. But most stock radiators aren't big enough for track duty. Adding a separate (should not have said "real") oil cooler buys you more air-to-cooler surface area without having to butcher your stock radiator setup.

The failure modes for the oil-water heat exchangers are pretty harsh, but then again, a rock into your oil cooler is nearly as bad, so...
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:28 AM   #48
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Why not just go with the accusump, instead of reinventing the wheel? it's a proven concept and very sexy to look at
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Old 10-22-2020, 11:53 AM   #49
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More weight, more complexity, more possibilities for leaks and failures. But, we're running one as we don't have another solution at this time.
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:17 PM   #50
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Moroso also makes something like the accusump, has anyone tried one?
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