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Old 08-25-2011, 11:30 PM   #176
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how are you wiring the cops since I see 4 wires coming from them?
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:45 PM   #177
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There's a 12V+ (switched). And a ground. And a signal wire that goes to MS. And the last wire is some sort of 'ECU feedback'. Not used in this application.
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Old 08-26-2011, 12:01 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas240 View Post
how are you wiring the cops since I see 4 wires coming from them?
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=192802

Relevant info, sorry my images are LD... server is dead.
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Incidentally, if we're going to follow this other train of thought, you should install your spare tire while the vehicle is cruising at 55mph, since that's about where it'll be used most often.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:56 PM   #179
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It's getting closer to that first attempt to start...

A few random tasks still left under the hood. Mostly installing the hot side piping, the rad hoses, and the belts (waiting on a box from FCP with some shorter belts). Got the intake installed, the idle valve plumbed and hung under it, the timing belt on and the cams and DSM CAS timed properly.

I think my big fat strut brace is *just* going to fit. It might have to sit on top of some nuts to fit, but it will fit.



Wiring is about 95% done inside the footwell. It's mostly hooking up the WB and A/C compressor, I think. I premade the MS harness with the 940 style multiplugs, so it was easy to just pop those ends through the firewall and click together with the engine harness.
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:13 PM   #180
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its looking good. The Machine hasnt even touched my bottom end and they've had for a little more then a week. Im not worried yet about time since everything is done, its just a matter of putting it all together.

Maybe I'll worry in a few weeks
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:21 PM   #181
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Just got done with the last of the wiring. Motors still as apart as it was in that pic, no hoses or belts on it mainly. No downpipe. Got the last of the wiring done, thought WTH, might as well see if it will start.

Connected with the laptop for the first time, signature mismatch. So I downloaded the latest MS3X firmware and updated it. Loaded my totally-from-scratch MSQ.

Noticed that while the white LH main relay was clicking (I have it wired on the fuel pump relay output) the fuel pump wasn't running. So I had to rethink the way I had that wired. Along the way I realized that powering all the gizmos under the hood via the fuel pump output probably wasn't a good idea - at least notably not powering the DSM CAS like that - unless I start cranking during the priming pulse it will power down, then MS won't see any cranking and power it up again. Derp, I was thinking it might be nice to have the coils and injectors power down if the key was turned on and left on, but wiring the CAS in with them like that was not going to work.

So (temporarily), I just wedged that side of the double LH relay 'on' so the injectors, coils, and CAS would remain powered up. And gave it the first crank...







...
















...












...

...and it sputtered and tried to fire up. It would fire and run for about 2 seconds, then cut off. Obv. some fuel values are way off. But I was incredibly relieved to see all the new injector wiring and sequential coil wiring working right off the bat. Woot!

Then my wife (alerted by the down-pipe-less bursts of noise) came out to see if she could laugh at my expense, and said something's dripping. Oh yeah, I was going to hook the turbo oil drain back up when I went under there to put the downpipe back on.

All in all, I'm going to claim this as GREAT SUCCESS! /Borat

Still waiting on a box with some shorter alt and A/C belts from FCP.

I noticed the Aeromotive FPR has a sort of moaning sound to it.
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:34 PM   #182
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Starts and settles into a crappy idle now. Just had to re-route one wire - the power supply to the CAS. Rerouted it from the under-hood FI relay (powers the injectors, coils, idle valve, EBC valve), and to the main power supply to MS. So it stays on when the key is on, not just when the FP is on.

I think the start and die was just due to the fuel pressure being adjusted really low on the new FPR. Cranked it up to about 50 psi (at 100 kpa) and it will start and idle now.

More tuning will have to wait until I get the belts and finish putting the motor together.
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Old 09-02-2011, 09:13 PM   #183
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Excellent!
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:30 PM   #184
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Congrats. Big step.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:12 PM   #185
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Got the hoses on it, and some coolant in it. Still waiting on the shorter belts (should be here today).

So I was able to start it and run if for more than a couple of seconds at a time, without worrying about it overheating. Only for about 20, 30 seconds at a time, though, no water pump action means that it would go straight past 'warming up' to 'overheating'.

Still, enough time to mess about with it some with the laptop.

And it's running... horribly. Fast 2000-ish rpm idle with very little manifold vac. Very rough, seems very rich. I tried leaning it out using req fuel, it didn't seem to hasve as much effect as I thought it should. I even wen tunder the hood and pulled injector wires off one at a time, and it seemed to have no effect on the sputtery running. Maybe it's just way too rich and there was fuel puddled in the intake.

In any case, it does run, very roughly. I need to get the belts on it so I can run it for longer periods of time and get it sorted out.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:21 PM   #186
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sweet, progress is always good. You gotta month to nail down a tune and sort out little issues, so you should be in good shape pending disaster eh?
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:24 PM   #187
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Should be. You just don't get much done at all in 30 second bits of 'tuning' with long periods in between to cool down.

I figure it can't be *that* bad (wiring wise) if it runs at all, hopefully all the work from here on out is via the laptop.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:30 PM   #188
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PS: Of course, I'm not going to get around to putting that JVAB steel flywheel and Saaaaaab 9000 clutch on it by then (have no PP, have no T5 clutch disc) so if it does (eventually) end up making a lot more HP, I won't be able to handle it very well with the Clutchnet dogdish clutch it has now. It was near its limit at 300 whp.

Worst case I'll drive the beater PV down. That would be an adventure.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:10 AM   #189
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Quote:
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Should be. You just don't get much done at all in 30 second bits of 'tuning' with long periods in between to cool down.

I figure it can't be *that* bad (wiring wise) if it runs at all, hopefully all the work from here on out is via the laptop.
theres always LH?
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:07 AM   #190
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Got belts on it, it's technically complete now.

And tuned at it for a while last night.

The idle valve stuff is way messed up, I need to get that straightened out, but I was mostly trying to come to grips with two issues:
- the timing (made a 'jumper wire' with an old coil wire for the #1 COP so I could use my timing light)
- the idle vacuum - as in - there's practically none

So far it will readily start up and run fairly smoothly, but at about 2000 - 2500 rpm, at 10" of vac. Perhaps the lack of idle vac is part of the new gnarly cams? I think this evening I'll try advancing the exhaust and retarding the intake some to reduce the overlap, and see if that helps anything.

Mostly last night I kept messing around with the trigger angle/offset in an attempt to get the timing reading correctly at a fixed 10 deg BTDC. And it kept acting like it was creeping. Changing the angle works, then eventually, it seems like I need to increase the angle some more, I ended up last night going bit by bit to 140 degrees. Yeah, I know that's not right, just my dumb ass doing too much tinkering with the laptop and timing light, and not doing enough reading: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/trigg...l#dualwheelcam

Herpa-derpa-doo! I'll start over tonight. Obviously, that trigger angle thing is not the right thing to be messing with. I was just trying to compensate for a slightly out-of-place CAS positioning. I need to be a little less lazy and jsut reclock the CAS correctly (it's probably a tooth off), and read more before jsut messing with the settings. Although in my defense, bumping that tooth angle/offset value around did make the timing marks move appropriately, they'd just creep off again later.

So main things for tonight's round of tuning:
- work on getting a livable amount of idle vac (cam timing)
- work on getting the idle valve working properly
- getting the ignition set properly so 10 deg fixed shows up as 10 deg consitently on the pulley.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:08 AM   #191
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dupe post - honestly - I didn't do all that twice!

Last edited by JohnMc; 09-09-2011 at 10:13 AM.. Reason: duped again
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:14 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas240 View Post
theres always LH?
Heh, I'd need a new harness to go back now. All the wiring for the AMM is gone, I got sick of seeing unused plugs laying about the engine compartment.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:12 PM   #193
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Quote:
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- the timing (made a 'jumper wire' with an old coil wire for the #1 COP so I could use my timing light).
Of note, I just clamped the timing light pickup around all 3 wires going to the Toyota COPs in my 16v and it functioned just fine Differences in timing light functionality maybe?
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:29 PM   #194
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To be honest, I didn't even try that. I just assumed that it needed some higher voltage spike to pick up on.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:34 PM   #195
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Quote:
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To be honest, I didn't even try that. I just assumed that it needed some higher voltage spike to pick up on.
I made the exact same assumption on mine, but tried it on a whim and it worked perfect
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:47 PM   #196
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But, but, but then I'll go back to not having any use at all for that long IPD coil wire that came with the set I bought years and years ago!
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:16 PM   #197
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Quote:
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Heh, I'd need a new harness to go back now. All the wiring for the AMM is gone, I got sick of seeing unused plugs laying about the engine compartment.
you can have mine
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Old 09-09-2011, 04:21 PM   #198
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Maybe I'll just got to a stage double K-Jet system. Hook two K-Jets up to a progressive 2 barrel throttle body. Those work in a blow-through setting, right?
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:28 PM   #199
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Spent another hour or so on it this morning. Got the idle working better - for some reason the Bosch idle valve is working totally differently on the MS3X idle output than it did on the MS1 idle out. I tried a bunch of different frequencies with it, it seemed like it started opening at 77% on all of them, fully open at 90%. Which is a little weird. No wonder my first cut at the idle settings was so horribly off.

And it was still running pretty lousy. Played around with it for a while, then realized what I'd done so wrong. I'd imported my fuel maps from the MS1 setup, then played around with the req fuel to get it started, and to get the AFR's in the right ballpark, while idling. Of course, that was with some stock cams, now I have some gnarly ass cams that don't move air worth a crap at idle speeds. So to get it to idle, I'd bumped req fuel *way* down, and as soon as it revved up some, it would start moving air, and go ridiculously lean. So I took the table and tapered the VE's way down on the left side, to account for the cam's effects, then raised the req fuel back up to where it should have been. And now it will idle (sort of, very low vac, like around 75 kpa) *and* rev.

Needs a huge amount of tuning, might take it on a drive tomorrow.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:28 PM   #200
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Spent another hour or so on it this morning. Got the idle working better - for some reason the Bosch idle valve is working totally differently on the MS3X idle output than it did on the MS1 idle out. I tried a bunch of different frequencies with it, it seemed like it started opening at 77% on all of them, fully open at 90%. Which is a little weird. No wonder my first cut at the idle settings was so horribly off.

And it was still running pretty lousy. Played around with it for a while, then realized what I'd done so wrong. I'd imported my fuel maps from the MS1 setup, then played around with the req fuel to get it started, and to get the AFR's in the right ballpark, while idling. Of course, that was with some stock cams, now I have some gnarly ass cams that don't move air worth a crap at idle speeds. So to get it to idle, I'd bumped req fuel *way* down, and as soon as it revved up some, it would start moving air, and go ridiculously lean. So I took the table and tapered the VE's way down on the left side, to account for the cam's effects, then raised the req fuel back up to where it should have been. And now it will idle (sort of, very low vac, like around 75 kpa) *and* rev.

Needs a huge amount of tuning, might take it on a drive tomorrow.
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