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Old 06-28-2017, 04:38 AM   #1
Will325
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Default Gramp's Wagon: 960 LS3 Swap

First and foremost, we have no idea what we are doing!

This whole project started out when my friend and I were driving the 960 around to get it smogged so we could sell it. We both liked how it drove and then my friend pointed out that Paul Neuman had a v8 960. Of course had to I look up ls1 960 while waiting for the smog test to be done... That's how this swap came to be.



The car was my grandfather's. He bought it new in 1995 (wish he bought it a year or two earlier, would make my life so much easier lol) it has about 143k on it and overall in good shape, it was garaged most of its life. I am trying to get rid of the motor, it had its timing belt and fuel rail changed in the last 5k miles, if anyone wants it PM me.



Seeing as we live in the great state of California, doing emissions legal LS swaps are a pain in the ass. We would have to convert the car to obd2 to MAYBE get it legal. I spent the money on a ls3 e-rod. It hurt! A lot! But the way I justified it to myself was, it a brand new motor that will run forever and I don't have to worry about the smog legalness because out of the box that motor is smog legal in any obd1 car. It will have a t-56 behind it.



We are still researching the massive amount of option out there for suspension and brakes for this car (I wish.) I think, for now, we are just going to refresh everything, but We are Volvo n00bs. Let me know if I should be doing something else for suspension.



We started this project last weekend. We got the motor out and started to test fit the LS3.
We are using the STS mounts they look really well made and should work out great. However, being that is the car is kinda the oddball it turns out that the lower motor brackets that the rubber mount sits on are taller than a 740's. The motor is way to high in the engine bay and is hitting on the tunnel and the hood will not close. Right now trying to find 740 brackets. Thanks 77volvo245 for helping me figure that out!





I am probably forgetting a lot but there will be more posts to come!
Thanks for all your help in advance!
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1995 960 LS3 in progress swap.
1886e30 smog bmw v8 swap.
1989 e30 Smog legalish s52 swap.
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...and In case life wasn't complicated enough

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Old 06-28-2017, 09:04 AM   #2
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Take out the rubber mounts and bolt it solid. That will drop it down and you won't have sloppy Volvo mounts to screw around with.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:31 AM   #3
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Don't do that its a bad idea.
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:15 AM   #4
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Don't do that its a bad idea.
Agreed. I wish I had softer rubber mounts in my LS swap... although stock 240 rubber mounts aren't exactly the most robust thing on these cars. I don't know if 740 ones are better, but keep in mind that LS will try its best to rip them right out of the car. LOL

That's a sweet project! Looking forward to watching this one come together!! Where in NorCal are you?
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:37 AM   #5
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keep in mind that LS will try its best to rip them right out of the car. LOL
Exactly why you should use solid mounts.

I've built 4 cars with solid mounts, 2 of them with big block Chevy engines. No complaints here.
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:59 AM   #6
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You recommended bolting it solid to the mounts with nothing in between. That right there is a sure fire way to have things break not to mention vibrations through the driveline and body.
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:40 PM   #7
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Vibrations won't be too bad, especially with the mild cam in that E-rod crate motor. Not likely to break anything. I've got over 30K including 2 Power Tours on one car with a much more radical big block that has not broken anything.

But do whatever you want. I'm speaking from experience.
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Old 06-28-2017, 01:30 PM   #8
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Great looking wagon. That'll be an awesome cruiser when it's done.
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Old 06-28-2017, 01:55 PM   #9
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I like them solid. Here is my 5.0/242 mounts



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Originally Posted by 57plymouth View Post
Exactly why you should use solid mounts.

I've built 4 cars with solid mounts, 2 of them with big block Chevy engines. No complaints here.
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Old 06-28-2017, 02:00 PM   #10
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Exactly why you should use solid mounts.

I've built 4 cars with solid mounts, 2 of them with big block Chevy engines. No complaints here.
I have a complaint about my dashboard buzzing, and all sorts of engine noise being transmitted through the car. It's something I will be addressing someday, but I have lots of other things on the project ahead of that.
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Old 06-28-2017, 02:05 PM   #11
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Yea the status mounts are pretty harsh. I have a nasty vibration in mine. But I'm happy that the engine doesn't move at all
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Old 06-28-2017, 02:11 PM   #12
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It's blowing my mind that all you guys are running solid mounts. I must be getting old, because there's no way I could deal with that.
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Old 06-28-2017, 02:58 PM   #13
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I guess I am getting old too lol. The point with this car is to make it a long-distance bomber. That's why I'm really trying to keep the rubber mounts.

The plan of attack on the mounts as of now is:

first, try the 740 brackets. If we still don't like the way it is sitting, I can think of two options right now.
1. We make some custom height brackets.
2. The STS mounts are meant to work with e36 m3 bushings. Pulling from the BMW knowledge, a company called Condor makes shorter e36 m3 mounts. If I am remembering correctly they drop the motor 10 or 15mm Which might just be enough but they are poly. (https://www.condorspeedshop.com/coll...nt=32325768257)

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Old 06-28-2017, 03:00 PM   #14
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Agreed.

That's a sweet project! Looking forward to watching this one come together!! Where in NorCal are you?
We are in San Mateo.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:17 PM   #15
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mikezohsix on here put an ls1/t56 in a v90 6 or 7 years ago with custom mounts. He might still have the specs.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:13 AM   #16
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My opinion, if you want to keep the feel of the V90, and not feel like you're driving a race car, then you need compliant mounts. I used GTO mounts when I built my car, they came with the engine. I was way ahead of all the pre-made mounts, I ended up modifying the original aluminum motor mount brackets to lower the engine into the car.

Depending on where you mount your engine front to back, you're going to need to open up the tunnel for the bell housing and the reverse lock out on the T56 - just BFH work. I located mine so the shifter came thru the stock opening which allows you to reuse the original console with out modifications.

I just checked my old thread and all the pictures are disabled because Photobucket is now charging to act as a third party hosting service. Send me a PM with your email and i'll look into giving you access to my PB account.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:22 AM   #17
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Can you flip the engine side mount upside down? That would lower it in the chassis. You will likely have to swap to the Holley oil pan if you get it lower. I think the crate motor comes with a truck pan, doesn't it? Even if it's the F-car pan, the Holley pan is a little more shallow.

Edit; that looks like the F-car oil pan that is on the crate motor. So maybe the Holley pan will gain some room.

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Old 06-29-2017, 12:41 PM   #18
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The Mast pan and the 302-2 Holley are even thinner over the rack/crossmember than the 302-1 to position the engine lower - if you can deal with the longer sump. Poly mounts on mine - it's much quieter/smoother/refined than the Ford 5.0L with oem rubber mounts. I added a third "mount" (torque strap) between the driver's side head and the crossmember bolts on the frame rail. Helps calm things down when lots of torque is applied.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:10 PM   #19
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.... and I don't have to worry about the smog legalness because out of the box that motor is smog legal in any obd1 car.


Uh, How does that work?
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:18 PM   #20
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Uh, How does that work?
https://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/d...o/D-126-32.pdf
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:08 PM   #21
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I would buy a American power trains t56, the reverse lockout is low profile and it fit in the tunnel of my 240 with no bashing
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:48 PM   #22
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I had no idea, that's really neat! Wish they would do that with more motors. I have an appointment with the ref here in Sac in a week, to check out my b230ft (LH24) swap in a B21 (kjet) car, I'm hoping it goes well.
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Old 06-29-2017, 05:17 PM   #23
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LS3 + T56, already off to a great start. Looking forward to seeing it run
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mikezohsix View Post
My opinion, if you want to keep the feel of the V90, and not feel like you're driving a race car, then you need compliant mounts. I used GTO mounts when I built my car, they came with the engine. I was way ahead of all the pre-made mounts, I ended up modifying the original aluminum motor mount brackets to lower the engine into the car.

Depending on where you mount your engine front to back, you're going to need to open up the tunnel for the bell housing and the reverse lock out on the T56 - just BFH work. I located mine so the shifter came thru the stock opening which allows you to reuse the original console without modifications.

I just checked my old thread and all the pictures are disabled because Photobucket is now charging to act as a third party hosting service. Send me a PM with your email and i'll look into giving you access to my PB account.
I couldn't agree more about the mounts.

How much did you have to beat up the tunnel to make it work in the stock hole? I have read it was minor.

Thank you so much that would be great!! I will send you a PM after I'm done here.


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Can you flip the engine side mount upside down? That would lower it in the chassis. You will likely have to swap to the Holley oil pan if you get it lower. I think the crate motor comes with a truck pan, doesn't it? Even if it's the F-car pan, the Holley pan is a little more shallow.

Edit; that looks like the F-car oil pan that is on the crate motor. So maybe the Holley pan will gain some room.
I don't think I can flip it over. The motor would be on the ground lol. The pan that came on the motor is a massive truck pan. I think they do that on purpose so you have to buy another pan lol. I have a holley 302-1. It looks like it will work with not much modification to the crossmember.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M.H. Yount View Post
The Mast pan and the 302-2 Holley are even thinner over the rack/crossmember than the 302-1 to position the engine lower - if you can deal with the longer sump. Poly mounts on mine - it's much quieter/smoother/refined than the Ford 5.0L with oem rubber mounts. I added a third "mount" (torque strap) between the driver's side head and the crossmember bolts on the frame rail. Helps calm things down when lots of torque is applied.

The mast pan definitely looks interesting. I found this comparison online. I think for what I am doing, I think the holley might be better because the sump is back a little more (every inch counts!)



About the E-rod, it definitely was not what I was planning to do from the get go. But the more I looked into the swap it seemed like the path of least resistance. Yes its a lot of money, but god damn it makes it easy. It comes with everything. From cats to the ECU etc etc. I guess you have to pay to play by the rules. Supposedly you don't even have to go bar it. I am going anyways lol.

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Originally Posted by Uncleknucklez View Post
I had no idea, that's really neat! Wish they would do that with more motors. I have an appointment with the ref here in Sac in a week, to check out my b230ft (LH24) swap in a B21 (kjet) car, I'm hoping it goes well.
I wish they made more motors like this as well! Chevy also makes an LSA and LT1 e-rod ;) In our research for this swap, we found where dodge is thinking about doing one and Cummins makes one. I don't think it's applicable to us but, you could have a cummins volvo lol. http://www.4wdmechanix.com/advance-a...sion-for-jeep/

Good luck!! I have been a few times now with the bmws. One thing I have learned is to make sure the job looks clean and be prepared with any info they might ask for. It also depends on the ref a lot. Some are complete hardasses and others are way more open to new ideas lol.


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Originally Posted by cosbySweater View Post
I would buy a American power trains t56, the reverse lockout is low profile and it fit in the tunnel of my 240 with no bashing

Good to know. We have one sitting in our garage right now


Speaking of transmissions... Does anyone have any words of wisdom on the subject of a trans mount. I am thinking the best way to go might be just fabbing one?

Thanks again for all the support. It makes us feel less crazy.

PS. My friend is a way better writer than I am and is writing about this project as well.
http://drivewerks.co/gramps-wagon-pa...or-activities/

Last edited by Will325; 06-30-2017 at 01:43 PM.. Reason: for a shameless plug
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:25 PM   #25
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We are in San Mateo.
Cool info about the smog compliance, I'm a couple towns down in RWC
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