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Old 12-04-2017, 05:17 AM   #1
Bosozoku_Volvo
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Post The New New 240 whiteblock swap thread.

So i noticed that the "all you need to know" whiteblock swap threads give you very little information on how to actually get the motor in your car and lined up, and since i got myself a killer deal on some parts, i figured id try to make the real end-all, be-all thread for this.

that, and im seeing a lot of questions being posted on the facebook lately, and Ive got some of those answers. this is my first write up, and it will definitely be a work in progress as i find more and more out.

Im also borrowing some bits from the other threads. Im not saying they arent helpful, i just wanna expand them as much as i can. since image share websites wanna be terrible right now, ill start with posting the link to the online gallery of what im doing. anything i post in the sections below should have at least one picture, and some of them have descriptions
https://tinyurl.com/yaza7a6a

ENGINE
Im using a 98 t5 block for my build. the ideal bit it to go for an RN block, but seeing as this is what i have, this is where ill start. Im sure some things on the RN would actually make this swap much easier, and i figure ill end up with one when the N block nukes

TRANSMISSION
Im using the obvious got-to foxbody t5 WC transmission. for us US guys, theyre the easiest bet to get your hands on, as far as swap bits and rebuilt kits/aftermarket support for them.

This section include clutch, and so in my case, ive gotten a custom clutch sourced from southland clutch in san diego. i can source the disc for you only, sadly. if you have a good spare used clutch, you can get the pressure plate rebuilt like i did, so you arent paying for a whole clutch kit for a t5 or an 850 R (which isnt that bad, honestly. It would definitely be easier)
The pilot bearing im using is actually an Oillite bushing for a 5.0/t5 combo. i had a local machine shop shave it down for me, and after a few attempts, the 15mm bushing was shaved down to 32.02mm circumference for the big hole, a stepdown was cut for 20.85mm, and the biggest cut is only 6.32mm down the bushing before the step down. refer to the pic hosting link posted above
I havent ironed out the throwout setup just yet, but i think a stock 240 throwout should work fine for this.

if youre doing this for a 740 or something hydraulic, i havent had a need to touch on that yet, but id assume you could adapt an 850 external slave setup pretty easily, or even and internal one.

MOUNTS

this was a big issue with me trying to get figured out. most threads just showed the motor already in the car and something like "yeah the block has bolt holes for it", one picking out 850 engines for having 0 issues for this. WRONG

So im using 960 upper mounts on the block side. driver side had 3 holes that lined up perfectly, but i had to notch it out for the pcv system. you can see it in the pictures. i figure 3 out of 4 bolts should be more than fine.

the passenger side upper 960 mount only had 1 on my engine, i think. i had to drill and tap some holes (still only using 3 bolts total) and ended up bridging a redblock accessory tensioner piece. worked pretty well, but i did have to clearance the mount for one bolt, as seen in the pictures.

COOLING AND TURBO

ive seen the other threads showing the old coolant lines adapted between 960 and t5 to keep turbo feeds good while giving you a forward facing lower radiator hose port. what i found was easiest for my lack of skill in welding, was to get the t5 stuff welded to the 960 engines coolant line, and then cut the backside off of it for the turbo drain. i think that piping is galvanized, and i couldnt keep out the water leaks under pressure testing. a small welded ring and some rubber coolant hose is gonna be my choice here. it SHOULD give you the ability to keep your heater core while having flexibilty to play with locations for stuff. the pipe fiting bits where from acehardware, and i used 5/8ths coolant hose to make up the distances.

as for the turbo, coolant lines for that are easy to make for yourself. still almost perfectly lines up there. as for the oil feed and drain, i grabbed a kinugawa flexible 4an oil feed, and will be doing the nissan style of using rubber hose to drain it. should be more than effectivem especially since you gotta flip and reclock your turbo.

INTAKE AND EXHAUST

exhaust can stay the same, pull some studs and flip them around to make the turbo mount happy, and i believe you need to shave the heat shield bits off.

intake is an RN manifold with a 3inch NA 850 throttle on it. you may have to make a throttle cable from some bike cable, and i advise having someone engineer you an adapter plate for it. i tried drilling first, and now mines welded on.

POWER STEERING
this is one of my hold ups for now. using the RN intake manifold makes the N block PS pump contact reservoir to intake manifold. i tried shaving some bits, bit no luck. im trying to figure out a way to use a remote reservoir for it, will update as i find out.

i do know that you cant use the PS pump from a later p80 (99 plus) due to pulley offset. if you can kick the pulley 2-3mm forward, you probably could. its really close.

youll also def need to make you own PS lines. theyre easily done with some proper parts sourcing. my 84 GLT turbo has a custom line i made for the 740 style accessory location setup i have. if you cut off the industrial press clamps, the metal lines are barbed. your local NAPA has 3k psi rated hydraulic line that works super well, and full metal hose clamps (took me each fitting) or getting another industrial type clamp put on finishes it off.

ECU

in my build, ill being using stock m4.4
its easy to play with and tune, costs very little, and makes the COP transition quite nice.




thats what i have for now. ill be adding more as i get there, expanding, the works. pictures with anything, feel free to PM me for any info i might have missed so far, or clutch souring bits to make it a little nicer on yourself!
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:17 PM   #2
thatcher.hubbard
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Funny that you should post this up, I was going to tack a couple of questions onto the end of the previous whiteblock in a 240 thread.

I have a 1992 245 I want to put a T6 into. I know I can get engine mounts from KLR in Sweden, and I plan on using VEMS to run the engine.

One wrinkle in my case is my desire to stick with an automatic transmission, and that's where my questions lie.

I would prefer to use the AW30-40 out of the S90 in the car, it seems that transmission has a better reputation for being able to hold power than say an AW71. It does mean that I have to fake out the TCU though. I found this thread on building a simple logic box that responds immediately when the TCU requests a torque reduction:

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...26#post5364226

I've also found information that suggests you can find a non-electronic valve body from an early Toyota A341 and swap that, but it's pretty vague.

I guess I could replace the TCU with Megashift on an MSGPIO too?

Finally, it seems that it would be possible to get an AW71, build it, and then use the AW30-40 bellhousing to bolt it to the whiteblock engine.

So what's the best option here? I'm not looking to build a bonkers, 600hp wagon like Captain Bondo's old ride, something more like 350hp with a broad powerband and a smaller turbo that spools right off idle. I'd prefer to just use the AW30-40, but that assumes I can make it fit in the 240 shell, and that I can either fool/replace/communicate with the TCU in a way that preserves some semblance of shift quality.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:11 PM   #3
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have you thought about electric power steering?
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:41 PM   #4
Bosozoku_Volvo
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Thatcher, i assume you could use the trans easily enough, but getting it to operate properly is where i cant really answer. Id assume keeping the tcm in line with the normal m4.4 ecu. Id go check any posts on 5 cylinder swapping an s90 and see what they say about it.

As for electric? Nah. Ill stock to regular for cost and ease.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:40 PM   #5
thatcher.hubbard
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I really would favor the option of a giving the trans the inputs it needs and a logic box that replies affirmatively every time the TCU asks for a torque reduction (even if there is none). The question is, how well would it actually shift? I wonder if the AW30-40 can take the same accumulator mod that's been done to the AW7X boxes?

If there was a valve body that fit that operated just on line pressure, that might be a good option, but this seems more like a legend than an established option somebody has gotten to work. An aftermarket TCU like MSGPIO sounds great, but it would have to be made to work, including building a transmission map. Sure, there's a lot you could do there in terms of map switching and stuff, but adding crap like that to the scope of work is the death of engine swaps

If I thought that I could get an AW71L to hold up behind a 350hp engine I'd just go for that, you can get cores for rebuilding reasonably cheaply. I'm not going to be taking this car to the drag strip or doing launches with it, but it still seems like that's a lot to ask from an AW71.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:52 PM   #6
propav8r
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So you have a running whiteblock car, or are you telling us how to do it without having actually done it?

Why is a T5 the obvious choice? T5 prices have gone through the roof lately, at least in my neck of the woods, and it wasn't a GREAT transmission to start. Why not a W58 or R154, something that would bolt to an off-the-shelf adapter plate?

I mean, I'm interested to see how this goes and all, but typically, showing up on TB and telling us how to do things without any evidence of ever having done anything doesn't go over well.

Also, can't access your build pictures unless you provide a login. Is this a project thread or an article?
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:14 PM   #7
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I'll do a project thread on mine when it's actually something beyond "hey, I put e-codes on my otherwise stock 245". I think buying a 960 parts car with a running engine for $250 is a pretty good idea regardless of whether I can actually use the transmission or not, but if I get it, then I actually have to make this thing happen.
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:10 PM   #8
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This thread delivers.
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