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Old 12-04-2017, 05:17 AM   #1
Bosozoku_Volvo
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Post The New New 240 whiteblock swap thread.

So i noticed that the "all you need to know" whiteblock swap threads give you very little information on how to actually get the motor in your car and lined up, and since i got myself a killer deal on some parts, i figured id try to make the real end-all, be-all thread for this.

that, and im seeing a lot of questions being posted on the facebook lately, and Ive got some of those answers. this is my first write up, and it will definitely be a work in progress as i find more and more out.

Im also borrowing some bits from the other threads. Im not saying they arent helpful, i just wanna expand them as much as i can. since image share websites wanna be terrible right now, ill start with posting the link to the online gallery of what im doing. anything i post in the sections below should have at least one picture, and some of them have descriptions

ENGINE
Im using a 98 t5 block for my build. the ideal bit is to go for an RN block, but seeing as this is what i have, this is where ill start. Im sure some things on the RN would actually make this swap much easier, and i figure ill end up with one when the N block nukes

TRANSMISSION
Im using the obvious got-to foxbody t5 WC transmission. for us US guys, theyre the easiest bet to get your hands on, as far as swap bits and rebuilt kits/aftermarket support for them.
---------------------
UPDATE: deeworks has operational adapter kits for the cd009 trans from rwd nissan cars, yoshifab is sourcing clutches, and since deeworks' adapter is calling for a hydraulic pedal, the boys over at STS have medal a hydro clutch pedal for 2xx cars! that should be a bit nicer, gear at your own risk!!

This section includes clutch, and so in my case, ive gotten a custom clutch sourced from southland clutch in san diego. i can source the disc for you only, sadly. if you have a good spare used clutch, you can get the pressure plate rebuilt like i did, so you arent paying for a whole clutch kit for a t5 or an 850 R (which isnt that bad, honestly. It would definitely be easier)
The pilot bearing im using is actually an Oillite bushing for a 5.0/t5 combo. i had a local machine shop shave it down for me, and after a few attempts, the 15mm bushing was shaved down to 32.02mm circumference for the big hole, a stepdown was cut for 20.85mm, and the biggest cut is only 6.32mm down the bushing before the step down. refer to the pic hosting link posted above
I havent ironed out the throwout setup just yet, but i think a stock 240 throwout should work fine for this.
---------------------------
UPDATE: my pilot needed to be shaved down tremendously to get the depth to clear the foxbody input shaft. i also had to drill the back of the crank out with a pretty large drill bit (its not on me or id post the size for you, didnt take very long). i also had to cut the input shaft tube on the tranny by half an inch or so, as i contacted the clutch disk, which sucked but wasnt that bad.

if youre doing this for a 740 or something hydraulic, i havent had a need to touch on that yet, but id assume you could adapt an 850 external slave setup pretty easily, or even and internal one.

MOUNTS

this was a big issue with me trying to get figured out. most threads just showed the motor already in the car and something like "yeah the block has bolt holes for it", one picking out 850 engines for having 0 issues for this. WRONG

So im using 960 upper mounts on the block side. driver side had 3 holes that lined up perfectly, but i had to notch it out for the pcv system. you can see it in the pictures. i figure 3 out of 4 bolts should be more than fine. ------------- (im not using this as the vehicle im swaping into changed, linked build thread will show up eventually)

the passenger side upper 960 mount only had 1 on my engine, i think. i had to drill and tap some holes (still only using 3 bolts total) and ended up bridging a redblock accessory tensioner piece. worked pretty well, but i did have to clearance the mount for one bolt, as seen in the pictures.

COOLING AND TURBO

ive seen the other threads showing the old coolant lines adapted between 960 and t5 to keep turbo feeds good while giving you a forward facing lower radiator hose port. what i found was easiest for my lack of skill in welding, was to get the t5 stuff welded to the 960 engines coolant line, and then cut the backside off of it for the turbo drain. i think that piping is galvanized, and i couldnt keep out the water leaks under pressure testing. a small welded ring and some rubber coolant hose is gonna be my choice here. it SHOULD give you the ability to keep your heater core while having flexibilty to play with locations for stuff. the pipe fiting bits where from acehardware, and i used 5/8ths coolant hose to make up the distances.

as for the turbo, coolant lines for that are easy to make for yourself. still almost perfectly lines up there. as for the oil feed and drain, i grabbed a kinugawa flexible 4an oil feed, and will be doing the nissan style of using rubber hose to drain it. should be more than effectivem especially since you gotta flip and reclock your turbo.

INTAKE AND EXHAUST

exhaust maniufold can stay the same, pull some studs and flip them around to make the turbo mount happy, and i believe you need to shave the heat shield bits off.

intake is an RN manifold with a 3inch NA 850 throttle on it. you may have to make a throttle cable from some bike cable, and i advise having someone engineer you an adapter plate for it. i tried drilling first, and now mines welded on.
------------------------------
UPDATE: deeworks makes an adapter for this exact setup, with 90* movements so you can clock it where you need it. sadly, my project wont be using the tester i bought, but i got to check fitment and clearance, and boy is it absolutely perfect.

POWER STEERING
this is one of my hold ups for now. using the RN intake manifold makes the N block PS pump contact reservoir to intake manifold. i tried shaving some bits, bit no luck. im trying to figure out a way to use a remote reservoir for it, will update as i find out.

i do know that you cant use the PS pump from a later p80 (99 plus) due to pulley offset. if you can kick the pulley 2-3mm forward, you probably could. its really close.

youll also def need to make you own PS lines. theyre easily done with some proper parts sourcing. my 84 GLT turbo has a custom line i made for the 740 style accessory location setup i have. if you cut off the industrial press clamps, the metal lines are barbed. your local NAPA has 3k psi rated hydraulic line that works super well, and full metal hose clamps (took me each fitting) or getting another industrial type clamp put on finishes it off.

ECU

in my build, ill being using stock m4.4
its easy to play with and tune, costs very little, and makes the COP transition quite nice.
----------------------------
UPDATE: I have my harness cut down and anything useless removed. i have not been able to test due to not finishing the project yet, but ill have a list of pins i usede and didnt, ones i re-purposed in the tune for wideband lambda-sond and COP.



thats what i have for now. ill be adding more as i get there, expanding, the works. pictures with anything, feel free to PM me for any info i might have missed so far, or clutch souring bits to make it a little nicer on yourself!


EDIT: heres the first stack of pictures from way back when. I realize i didnt do a very good job of making the, public, and ive been wildly busy witha bunch of projects all dawning on me at once. ill come back and locate them as needed into the correct sections a little later down the road. sorry for the crazy delays!!!
Inked20171203_163415_HDR_LI 20171203_164242_HDR 20171203_164234_HDR 20171203_164118_HDR 20171203_164100_HDR 20171203_164051_HDR 20171203_164022_HDR 20171203_163959_HDR 20171203_163948_HDR 20171203_163939_HDR 20171203_163932_HDR 20171203_163842_HDR 20171203_163827_HDR 20171203_163801_HDR 20171203_163746_HDR 20171203_163732_HDR 20171203_163610_HDR 20171203_163604_HDR 20171203_163547_HDR 20171203_163527_HDR 20171203_163510_HDR 20171203_163501_HDR 20171203_163458_HDR 20171203_163446_HDR 20171203_163435_HDR 20171203_163415_HDR 20171203_163021_HDR 20171203_163017_HDR 20171203_162954_HDR 20171203_162938_HDR 20171203_162910_HDR 20170918_233508 20170918_233457 20170918_233411 20170918_233406 20170918_233311 20170918_233306 20170918_233032 20170918_232610 20170918_232602 20170918_232552 20170918_232545 20170918_232540 20170918_232535 20170917_142328_HDR 20170917_142320_HDR 20170917_140454_HDR 20170125_193136 20170125_193132
==============
ill add a newer set with the swapee vehicle. its not quite a volvo, and i would have had it running for you all who went to davis this year. maybe next year

Last edited by Bosozoku_Volvo; 06-01-2018 at 02:05 AM.. Reason: hoboy.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:17 PM   #2
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Funny that you should post this up, I was going to tack a couple of questions onto the end of the previous whiteblock in a 240 thread.

I have a 1992 245 I want to put a T6 into. I know I can get engine mounts from KLR in Sweden, and I plan on using VEMS to run the engine.

One wrinkle in my case is my desire to stick with an automatic transmission, and that's where my questions lie.

I would prefer to use the AW30-40 out of the S90 in the car, it seems that transmission has a better reputation for being able to hold power than say an AW71. It does mean that I have to fake out the TCU though. I found this thread on building a simple logic box that responds immediately when the TCU requests a torque reduction:

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...26#post5364226

I've also found information that suggests you can find a non-electronic valve body from an early Toyota A341 and swap that, but it's pretty vague.

I guess I could replace the TCU with Megashift on an MSGPIO too?

Finally, it seems that it would be possible to get an AW71, build it, and then use the AW30-40 bellhousing to bolt it to the whiteblock engine.

So what's the best option here? I'm not looking to build a bonkers, 600hp wagon like Captain Bondo's old ride, something more like 350hp with a broad powerband and a smaller turbo that spools right off idle. I'd prefer to just use the AW30-40, but that assumes I can make it fit in the 240 shell, and that I can either fool/replace/communicate with the TCU in a way that preserves some semblance of shift quality.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:11 PM   #3
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have you thought about electric power steering?
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:41 PM   #4
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Thatcher, i assume you could use the trans easily enough, but getting it to operate properly is where i cant really answer. Id assume keeping the tcm in line with the normal m4.4 ecu. Id go check any posts on 5 cylinder swapping an s90 and see what they say about it.

As for electric? Nah. Ill stock to regular for cost and ease.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:40 PM   #5
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I really would favor the option of a giving the trans the inputs it needs and a logic box that replies affirmatively every time the TCU asks for a torque reduction (even if there is none). The question is, how well would it actually shift? I wonder if the AW30-40 can take the same accumulator mod that's been done to the AW7X boxes?

If there was a valve body that fit that operated just on line pressure, that might be a good option, but this seems more like a legend than an established option somebody has gotten to work. An aftermarket TCU like MSGPIO sounds great, but it would have to be made to work, including building a transmission map. Sure, there's a lot you could do there in terms of map switching and stuff, but adding crap like that to the scope of work is the death of engine swaps

If I thought that I could get an AW71L to hold up behind a 350hp engine I'd just go for that, you can get cores for rebuilding reasonably cheaply. I'm not going to be taking this car to the drag strip or doing launches with it, but it still seems like that's a lot to ask from an AW71.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:52 PM   #6
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So you have a running whiteblock car, or are you telling us how to do it without having actually done it?

Why is a T5 the obvious choice? T5 prices have gone through the roof lately, at least in my neck of the woods, and it wasn't a GREAT transmission to start. Why not a W58 or R154, something that would bolt to an off-the-shelf adapter plate?

I mean, I'm interested to see how this goes and all, but typically, showing up on TB and telling us how to do things without any evidence of ever having done anything doesn't go over well.

Also, can't access your build pictures unless you provide a login. Is this a project thread or an article?
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:14 PM   #7
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I'll do a project thread on mine when it's actually something beyond "hey, I put e-codes on my otherwise stock 245". I think buying a 960 parts car with a running engine for $250 is a pretty good idea regardless of whether I can actually use the transmission or not, but if I get it, then I actually have to make this thing happen.
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:10 PM   #8
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This thread delivers.
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Old 03-05-2018, 11:12 PM   #9
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Sorry I haven't replied, I'll correct pictures a little later.

So you should be able to run the OE s70 harness and keep the auto tcm in working order. Shouldn't be too hard in theory.

As for having done it, no, I haven't made one that runs. I'm working on it as I go. T5 was obvious choice at the time for US guys, but seeing as deeworks has adapters working and yoshi is backing clutches, cd009 will be the far better option.

Been making huge progress on this. Doing wiring and mounts, as the vehicle receiving the swap changed. I'm close. Within a month I'll have it running.

And see works just made a throttle body adapter for this, making it even easier.
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:33 AM   #10
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all this work and using a factory ECU? Why?
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:12 PM   #11
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So you are using the cable clutch? Curious to see how that works out.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:54 PM   #12
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The AW30-40 can be run without a TCU, pretty easily. The Jeep AW4 is the same transmission, and they do it all the time.
http://www.radesignsproducts.com/ is one option. Google "AW4 manual shift" for others.
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Old 03-12-2018, 04:50 PM   #13
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all this work and using a factory ECU? Why?
why not? something you spend almost no money on to get the project done? motronic 4.4 is an amazing ecu. wideband lambda, 2 step, multiple tunes changeable on the fly, vvt activation? why not?
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:00 PM   #14
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If it's anything like the motronic on the 960, all you need to do to get the ECU/TCU to get the right speed signal is run a late diff with the 960/850 speedometer which has the signal modifier in it for the TCU.

That said, after figuring this out for our Lemons car I am really starting to think about putting a T5/AW30 in the 1800. 4.4 does work very well.

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The AW30-40 can be run without a TCU, pretty easily. The Jeep AW4 is the same transmission, and they do it all the time.
http://www.radesignsproducts.com/ is one option. Google "AW4 manual shift" for others.
There's a good thread from The Poi on here on how to do homebrew paddle shifters for the AW30, too
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:58 PM   #15
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This thread delivers.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:46 PM   #16
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If it's anything like the motronic on the 960, all you need to do to get the ECU/TCU to get the right speed signal is run a late diff with the 960/850 speedometer which has the signal modifier in it for the TCU.

That said, after figuring this out for our Lemons car I am really starting to think about putting a T5/AW30 in the 1800. 4.4 does work very well.



There's a good thread from The Poi on here on how to do homebrew paddle shifters for the AW30, too
I followed his instructions and made my own paddle shift box . Not sure how I'm going to actuate it all yet, paddles or bumpstick, but I'm a ways away from swapping yet.
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:31 PM   #17
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I have experience that 98 blocks have a tendency to crack at the water pump. Other than that nice info.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:51 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bosozoku_Volvo View Post
POWER STEERING
this is one of my hold ups for now. using the RN intake manifold makes the N block PS pump contact reservoir to intake manifold. i tried shaving some bits, bit no luck. im trying to figure out a way to use a remote reservoir for it, will update as i find out.
I'm not really sure why you can't just use all the 99+ brackets for the PS, Alt and AC compressor. Everything should line up just fine and no need to lop the intake manifold.
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Old 06-01-2018, 02:07 AM   #19
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I'm not really sure why you can't just use all the 99+ brackets for the PS, Alt and AC compressor. Everything should line up just fine and no need to lop the intake manifold.
i very well could do that. i wias simply working with a straight pulled engine at the time. my new project no longer needs any of the stock bracket, nor does it clear it. i plan on doing this again on another car, possible with an RN just to give myself the entire other end of the parts im not running.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:27 PM   #20
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Thatcher
If you can get your hands on a pre 96 ecu from any turbo that has an automatic (not just t5) you should be able to run the aw70 with out to much work.
You could also go with the more expensive Maxxecu ECU, it will support a 4l60e instead of the VEMS ecu ..(I have a VEMS ecu )

Bosozoku_volvo
Good luck, and when you run in to troubles feel free to ask, I just got home from trial starting my brothers 242 with a t5 and m90.
Swapping a T5 engine in to a 945 was easy, dropping a t5 in to a 242 was a bit of a mind twister at times.

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Old 06-24-2018, 04:55 PM   #21
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Bosozoku_volvo
here you go 44 pics of my brothers build
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RwiVzAWtbNP8VGbb8
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:02 PM   #22
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Bosozoku_volvo
here you go 44 pics of my brothers build
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RwiVzAWtbNP8VGbb8
Nice! I'm am curious as to why you guys cut the starter mount off, however
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