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Old 04-14-2018, 02:56 AM   #1
Hendrix242
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Question B20 mods

I have a 1975 242 with a b20 fuel injected and Iím looking to turbo and completely rebuild from top to bottom is any info out there on how to complete build and how or what I need to do.
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Old 04-14-2018, 04:41 AM   #2
mocambique-amazone
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Swap a B230FT engine and gearbox from a 940. Very easy and done even from idiots.
940's are cheap too
Don't waste your time with modifying a B20E. Even your old stuff, running is a must, is worth mor than a 940 complete
Good luck, Kay
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:36 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Hendrix242 View Post
I have a 1975 242 with a b20 fuel injected and Iím looking to turbo and completely rebuild from top to bottom is any info out there on how to complete build and how or what I need to do.
So what exactly do you need to know? B20s are fun to play with, but a turbo b20 takes some creativity, and itís one of those ďif you have to ask, donít botherĒ scenarios.

My b20 was built around being turbocharged. First, itís going to take some fabrication. Second, youíre going to need some cash, it isnít cheap
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Old 04-19-2018, 08:50 AM   #4
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I don't feel this is entirely true. Some of us might be new into vintage Volvos but that doesn't mean because we do not know that it's not working seeking out. After all did you know all the intricate work involved around boosting a B20 prior to doing it?

I'm on the fence because part of me wants to keep my 142e with its b20 engine and have a nice Singer NA motor put in.. the other part of me is curious about boosting but here is the issue with boosting a b20 in my mind. It's not the money or the time involved.. it's getting people to actually talk about it instead of diverting to another engine topic.

Now a B230ET swap interests me but I have reservations about that swap also.. so what to do what to do.

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So what exactly do you need to know? B20s are fun to play with, but a turbo b20 takes some creativity, and it’s one of those “if you have to ask, don’t bother” scenarios.

My b20 was built around being turbocharged. First, it’s going to take some fabrication. Second, you’re going to need some cash, it isn’t cheap
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:21 AM   #5
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Cast iron heads are not as friendly with higher HP levels per cylinder. They just tend to develop hot spots more easily and then detonation and ping ping boom, rods go flying out.

Some general things I'd be thinking about:
- lower CR- you already (should) have an F head, which has pretty low compression already (8.7:1). But some of that is via a thicker (stock) headgasket, which reduces quench/squish.
- don't try to lower CR any more with a thicker HG, you want to try to get a nice tight quench/ squish by picking a HG thickness that puts the pistons at .032"-ish from the head at TDC. The olde fashioned bathtub combustion chambers in the B20 heads need that tight squish to work properly. It doesn't matter at lower power levels and without boost (much), but it will once you start blowing lots of hot air into the cylinders.
- You'll probably want to keep it at 2.0L displacement. A nice thing to do with a normally aspirated B20 is bumping it up to B21 pistons/displacement, but that thins the cylinder walls some, you'll want those to be full thickness.
- Depending on your budget, maybe some forged custom pistons would be nice - a few tuning issues and a few pings and detonations and stock cast pistons can crack and break far more easily, which leads to rods flying out of the block about .01 seconds later. Forged pistons can fail under abuse, but (sometimes) in a more gentle failure mode where the rings break, the ring lands bend, and you lose compression and know something is wrong, but the engine doesn't blow up and you can rebuild without a complete brand new block/crank/rods/etc.
- Possibly rods too, depending on your power goals. The higher you push the power, the less forgiveness there is to tuning mistakes. You're just closer to the limits of the parts, and it takes a smaller and smaller mistake the higher you go.
- if you're getting custom rods-n-pistons - think about changing the rod length (aka call JohnV) - for better or worse these are tractor engines, you can liven them up with a more modern (and lighter) take on longer rods for the stroke.

Last but not least (probably should have been first?) what are your HP goals? It's entirely possible to make 200 N/A hp from a B20. It will be a wild and howly revmonster, but it can be done.
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:19 AM   #6
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OP - you're not alone with the B20 turbo route. That's on the plan for mine as well, hopefully in the next couple years. Everything John mentioned ^^^^ is spot-on. Thankfully for the pistons and rods route, the rods on the 75 are the same as B21/23 rods, making parts easier to find.

You can get a good bit out of the head that's on the car with some port work alone. Pair that with a tight squish setup, a good engine management, and a decent exhaust and you're already up to around 150hp (mine at 2130cc is running 130rwhp NA, at 9:1). From there, it'll be custom fab for an exhaust manifold/header for a turbo, should be able to pull an oil feed from the pressure sensor port, oil drain welded into the pan or drilled into the block, figure out the IC, and you're set. If it were me, I'd do the engine management first since that needs to be done for turbo, and won't hurt you at all while NA. Head work, same thing. While you're doing that you can start sourcing the internals.

My plan is for a GT28RS, around 15psi, with a target of around 200-250 at the ground. Plenty for the car without being abusive. As John mentioned, keep yours at 1990cc to keep some wall thickness. Mine's already punched out, looking into pricing for sleeving it now.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:08 PM   #7
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Gary and John covered it.

I’ve got a pretty good conservative timing map, a well dialed fuel map. And I totally agree that installing the engine management and getting it running na is a great way to start and understand what goes into it.

Mine is running great at 8.5:1, 0 deck, combustion chambers cleaned up, .030 mls head gasket, cast pistons, stock rods (6bolt crank), k cam, 15g and 12lbs. New header is almost done. Hopefully it’ll be better.

Tuning it wasn’t too bad. Haven’t dyno’d it but I was trapping the 1/8th at 60+ on the radar. Times would be great if I could get it to hook up.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandonium View Post
I don't feel this is entirely true. Some of us might be new into vintage Volvos but that doesn't mean because we do not know that it's not working seeking out. After all did you know all the intricate work involved around boosting a B20 prior to doing it?
I really didn’t mean to be so coarse. It’s not a matter of familiarity with vintage Volvos. It’s a matter of researching what it takes to build a good turbo engine. What key and fundamental issues you will have to overcome and how to develop your plan. My turbo plan took years of reading, research and questions before I even bought parts, but when you ask the question, too vague and everyone feels like you’re a 12 year old asking to be spoon fed. So get really familiar with the way an ICE works, get a good understanding of what needs to be different between NA and turbo, then as you find out the roadblocks, ask specifically about them one at a time.

A few things that come to mind are
Turbo sizing, lots of options and lots of information, and lots of answers.
Cam selection
Chamber shape
Valve sizing
Head porting
Engine timing characteristics
Engine fueling needs

This is all covered by just about every car forum and every engine building book out there. So take some time to read. It’s too much info to just ask the umbrella question “how do I turbo my b20.”

I’m working out all my links from my build and my research, I’ll send those over to you shortly.

https://youtu.be/eaXvxHgJmFI

Last edited by cwdodson88; 04-19-2018 at 03:25 PM..
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:33 PM   #9
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No worries my friend no harm no foul! It would be really nice to have some comprehensive dialogue that revolves around the B20. I know the easier route is to go with another engine. My International 345 is also a terrible engine to try and work around (it too is a tractor engine) but my whole philosophy is that often the hardest work is the most rewarding.

My original concept and the one I am leaning heavily towards is a stout N/A build using ITB's and MS. Since my 142 came with the b20e head I'd have to swap to a lower compression head if I were to turbo and also I am not sure how I would work a turbo into an ITB setup. If I can squeeze out no less than 200/215 from a N/A engine and it be ok for daily use (not racing) then that is probably where I would go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
I really didnít mean to be so coarse. Itís not a matter of familiarity with vintage Volvos. Itís a matter of researching what it takes to build a good turbo engine. What key and fundamental issues you will have to overcome and how to develop your plan. My turbo plan took years of reading, research and questions before I even bought parts, but when you ask the question, too vague and everyone feels like youíre a 12 year old asking to be spoon fed. So get really familiar with the way an ICE works, get a good understanding of what needs to be different between NA and turbo, then as you find out the roadblocks, ask specifically about them one at a time.

A few things that come to mind are
Turbo sizing, lots of options and lots of information, and lots of answers.
Cam selection
Chamber shape
Valve sizing
Head porting
Engine timing characteristics
Engine fueling needs

This is all covered by just about every car forum and every engine building book out there. So take some time to read. Itís too much info to just ask the umbrella question ďhow do I turbo my b20.Ē

Iím working out all my links from my build and my research, Iíll send those over to you shortly.

https://youtu.be/eaXvxHgJmFI
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:52 PM   #10
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Came across this I'm guessing this same type setup could exist with ITB's and a lower CR head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HknujWXmc04

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post

This is all covered by just about every car forum and every engine building book out there. So take some time to read. Itís too much info to just ask the umbrella question ďhow do I turbo my b20.Ē

Iím working out all my links from my build and my research, Iíll send those over to you shortly.
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandonium View Post
Came across this I'm guessing this same type setup could exist with ITB's and a lower CR head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HknujWXmc04
Not to nitpick, but that's not a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, and if it was, it wouldn't be doing anything other than causing severe problems on a set of carbs.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:03 PM   #12
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I’ve seen a few Nissan and Honda itb+turbo setups. Then there’s tuning... itbs are hard enough to tune right, and someone goes and adds a turbo. Lots of work, but they do sound good.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:23 PM   #13
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I'm not against a lot of work as that is how I learn. I just don't like a mindset that tries to stray other people away from things that are known to work simply because it may be too much work for that particular person..or they have some bias towards a singular method. Not speaking of you just a mindset in general that I am opposed to.

I am seeing many setups from BMW to Nissan/Honda/Mazda so I don't see how this would not work once you sorted out all the particulars and the aspect of space since an ITB setup puts the trumpets fairly close to the passenger fender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
Iíve seen a few Nissan and Honda itb+turbo setups. Then thereís tuning... itbs are hard enough to tune right, and someone goes and adds a turbo. Lots of work, but they do sound good.
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:24 PM   #14
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I believe that any project needs to follow the 6 P’s. Proper planning prevents piss poor performance.
So if you feel comfortable with it, go for it.
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