3 sets of fuel pumps failed

[rporzio]

Update. Before I attempted to ground term 85 of the pump relay I lightly sanded the fuse ends of #5 and #7. Started the car, applied the ground but it didn't do anything and that's when I noticed the whine of the pump was gone and replaced by the normal hum(s). I let him run/idle for about 1/2 hour while I washed it off and then pulled it into the garage. All that time it acted normal, so Friday is the earliest I can test drive it and will report back later. R.

[intothelabyrinth]

Sounds like you found your crappy connection.

[rporzio]

We'll see, I'm so paranoid now of driving this guy any distance. I'll post ongoing test results starting Friday morning... Ralph

[rporzio]

Gt him out and about running errands this morning with no issues other than the normal humming of both pumps which I'm so attuned to now; 35 mile 4 starts and stops. So far so good, going to buy a set of new fuses... R.

[rporzio]

Let's continue shall we? I'm on the 4th pump set now and the main pump has started to get a little louder and pulsing a bit after the 3rd test trip around town, this one was a bit longer 1/2 hour to be exact. I cleaned every ground connection underhood including the battery and 25 amp fuse and junction box mounted on the side of the fender by the coil (even his terminal were burnished clean. Replaced the Pressure Regulator, took all fuses out of the panel and burnished every connection and replaced with IPDs kit of fuses. I took special care to clean the input/output connection to fuses 5 and 7. Both relays behind the glove box replaced. The only thing I haven't replaced is the in tank sending unit and looked under the rear seat to see how those connections look. looking at the fuse panel, car running I read 12.8 volts on the right side of fuse 5 and 13.6 volts on the right of fuse 7. Incredibly frustrated...

[TestPoint]

Are you sure that you don't have some rust in the tank? Rust destroyed a brand new pump before I could even get through testing other fuel issues.

[Broke4speed]

If you got water in the tank, and didn't drain the tank FULLY, there will still be water there. Water sinks to the bottom of the tank, and won't mix with the gasoline. If your pump pickup is where it should be...you might be drawing water as well as gas into the pump. As a young guy, I worked at a bunch of gas stations and when we had to check the water level of the inground tanks, we'd smear some marking gunk on the end of the long stick we used, and submerge it into the tank. When it touched water, it turned from green to red, so we could tell how much water was there.

HEET (alcohol) will eventually separate from the water too, so it probably didn't work well enough as a 'drying' agent.

[rporzio]

No, not absolutely sure. It's been a few months we've been fighting this with many fill ups in between. Do you think rust could still be an issue even after all this time? The whining only starts about 1/2 hour into a drive.

[rporzio]

CarParts.com has a nice looking replacement tank for 143 shipped, thoughts?

[TestPoint]

This many pump failures is beyond unlucky chance.

The pictured rust took out a claimed new pump when I bought the car and both a new lift and pressure pump that I installed. A significant contributing factor was that the PO had bent the in-tank pick up tube about 30 degrees off vertical. I assume trying to get the pump/float assembly back in. That permitted an inch or more of very old gas to remain at the bottom of the tank. No matter how much I added and pumped out, which I did several times, there was always that 2 gallons of old rusty gas at the bottom of the tank.

Your call on a new tank. Good price shipped. Be sure to under coat a new tank before installation.

I bought a lighted fiber optic camera with a 5 foot tube for less than $15 that connects to my Android phone. Might be an option in diagnostics before firing the parts cannon.

Just in case:

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=269630

[rporzio]

Thanks TestPoint, I really appreciate yours and everyone else's thoughts... Found one on Ebay for 113 shipped, to me it's getting to the point of well why not...! R. As an after thought would the injectors be playing any sort of role is this dilemma? They were replaced as well with NAPA stock I believe.

[TestPoint]

My tank rust ending up costing me over $1400.

Replaced lift pump once, pressure pump twice, 2 filters, fuel tank, had the fuel distributor (K-jet) rebuilt twice ($400 first time, courtesy warranty second time), rebuilt CPR, replaced OEM Bosch injectors which were packed with rust. Fuel distributor had rust in it on warranty rebuild.

Tank rust will blow right through a fuel filter.

Sounds like you have electronic injectors which can be professionally tested and cleaned for far less than the $400 of the Bosch units. And . . . that was an excellent price for 6 injectors.

Good luck!

[rporzio]

I ordered a submersible android device, should be here by the weekend to have a look into the bottom of my tank. Did you go in through the filler tube or where the sender unit is located in the trunk?

[TestPoint]

I bought the fiber optic camera after the tank problems but would have tried it that way first. Probably through the pump hatch.

Siphon the tank down as low as you can get it and let it dry. You should be able to remove the lift pump/fuel level sender assembly and determine the extent of rust. The pump sits in the lowest point in the tank in a steel surround. That sump should be rust free.

Lightly rusted tanks can be restored but probably for more than the prices you quoted for a new tank. The tank will have to be removed either way.

[rporzio]

Ok good, thanks. Naturally the tank is nearly full but I'm hesitant to take it anywhere with the very real possibility of another failure leading to a tow. R.

[Otto Mattik]

Originally Posted by centason

Airtex E8778 intank and be done. Approved and a proven good pump by cleanflametrap. Now I do have a Delphi inline purchased from RockAuto. While louder than stock, it has worked fine.

I did the same Airtex E8778 in-tank & Delphi inline a year & half back, the Delphi is noisy but works fine.

[rporzio]

Got the camera and tried to go into the filler tube with no success. In through the trunk I went but really didn't need the camera to see that there is no rust at all in the tank. A good flashlight through the in tank pump hole revealed clear to the bottom. I am at wits end, really don't know what to do next.

[lummert]

How much fuel are you keeping in the tank? Less than half tank in hot humid weather may cause vapor issues if the in-tank pump is having issues.

[rporzio]

thanks lummert, since I've been fighting this issue the tank has been at all different levels all with the same results; main pump starts to whine and eventually fails. There is another spot I'm going to check over the weekend. During the resto while the interior was out I had to repair the power and ground feed to the main pump so I'm going to take the back seat out and recheck everything and if needed create new connections etc...

[rporzio]

got the back seat bottom out this morning. Cut off the 2 original power connectors (male/female) as they were a bit loose and probably the reason I taped them the first time and re did the ground connection; sanding all points and applying a small bit of dilectric grease. Ran the car for about an hour idling in the driveway with no additional noise from the main pump other than the low hum which remained constant. I'll take it out on the street tomorrow.

[rporzio]

tomorrow I'm going to put him up on jack stands, drop the fuel pump tray and replace the whole wiring harness for power and ground. While there I'm also going to replace the 3 rubber cushions with new pieces. How's that sound?

[TestPoint]

Sounds like a man with a plan. Hope it fixes the problem.

[90volvo]

When I pulled my back seat I had a huge burn spot on the bottom of the seat from fuel pump wire. Im lucky it didnt catch fire; I eventually ran all new wire for the fuel pump and converted to one pump in the tank. Also check your rubber lines, Ive seen cracked fuel line that will suck air and cause problems.

[rporzio]

that's interesting about the burn mark, I too had a similar situation when I had the interior out, see the pic. I really want to know all about your conversion to one pump, would you mind messaging me here and we can exchange emails? Thanks Ralph

[rporzio]

just rewired the main pump, this is what I took out. Probably touching or arcing the whole time? Test drive in an hour or so...