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Vintage '69 145 B18 - Ran fine to the gas station, then did not

bmessina

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Location
Peoria, IL
1969 145S with Dual SUs, B18 overbored to 2.0L, later 140 ignition (no points).

Car is now barely starting and won't stay running. It's raining right now so I can't work on it, so thought I'd look to the brain trust for ideas.

Started the car up to run some errands, all systems normal. I drive the car frequently. Got gas, and it would barely start afterwards. When it did start, it ran like crap. Like it wasn't on all cylinders or something, and would eventually backfire out the carbs and die

Things I have checked/tested/replaced:

Gas smells like gas, station didn't have diesel anyway
Swapped out fuel pump with known good, checked the bowls and they both have fuel
Swapped out coil with known good
Quick visual on carbs/intake for vacuum leaks

Things I plan to check:
Spark strength and timing
More in-depth vacuum leak check

Overall it definitely seems to be getting fuel, has to be some kind of timing issue but I'm not sure what kind of failure could pop up so suddenly.
 
Is there a fuel pressure rail with a return hose? If it's just old-style carbs with a low-pressure pump/regulator, bad gas from the gas station would take a minute to get to the carbs.

Maybe the distributor shaft seized momentarily, spun the distributor body out of alignment, and then un-siezed? Seems weird but I've had it happen on 2 old cars myself.
 
It sounds like you have a ignition problem to me.

If I remember correctly all Volvo red block engines were the B20 series from 1969 to 1975.
If that is true, your engine is either a B20, or else it was swapped in from a 68 or earlier Model.

Not trying to argue, but if you can determine exactly what series engine and ignition system that you have, it will be easier to help you.

Is the (electronic) ignition system presently in your car a Bosch system or a aftermarket?

I used to own and drive a 68 Model 144....way back in 1972....so my memory may not be that great.
 
Is there a fuel pressure rail with a return hose? If it's just old-style carbs with a low-pressure pump/regulator, bad gas from the gas station would take a minute to get to the carbs.

Maybe the distributor shaft seized momentarily, spun the distributor body out of alignment, and then un-siezed? Seems weird but I've had it happen on 2 old cars myself.

It's old style, pump on the block to filter to carbs. Yeah, that's what I thought about the gas, the car was immediately not in a good place.

I checked the timing, TDC with the piston up top, and the rotor was generally in the right place. Looked maybe a little advanced so I retarded the timing but it didn't make a difference.
 
It sounds like you have a ignition problem to me.

If I remember correctly all Volvo red block engines were the B20 series from 1969 to 1975.
If that is true, your engine is either a B20, or else it was swapped in from a 68 or earlier Model.

It was swapped in, years ago by a PO. In fact it's apparently one of Phil Singher's old projects.

Is the (electronic) ignition system presently in your car a Bosch system or a aftermarket?
OE from a later model 140 electronic ignition.
 
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You have the bosch ignition? Early versions are known for having a bad roll pin in the reluctor. That is the trigger wheel inside the distributor. The roll pin can break or fall out allowing the wheel to change position on the distributor shaft. The replacements are cheap and are a solid roll pin. pn 244209 in the old catalog.It should be updated if it hasn't.
 
It could be the fiber timing gear has broken loose from it's metal hub. Assuming you don't have a clutch fan and the belt is tight enough, rock the engine back and forth using the fan and watch the rotor. It should turn with the engine. If there's a delay before the rotor starts to spin, the gear has probably broken loose.

If you think the reluctor has spun, check the orientation of the notch. It should line up with one of the arms and the groove in the shaft.

Reluctor1276617.JPG


ReluctorOrientation.jpg
 
Which SUs?
Can you check fuel pressure? Should be less than 3 psi.
What condition are the rubber fuel lines? Old fuel lines HATE ethanol blended fuel and can deteriorate on the inside. The deteriorated fuel line will then end up in the fuel bowl and possibly clog the jet.
Water in fuel is also a possibility.
 
Sorry, busy and rainy weekend.

Which SUs?
HS6


Can you check fuel pressure? Should be less than 3 psi.
Cannot, but I'll put that idea on the list and maybe pickup a cheap-o fuel pressure gauge on the next auto parts store trip.

What condition are the rubber fuel lines? Old fuel lines HATE ethanol blended fuel and can deteriorate on the inside. The deteriorated fuel line will then end up in the fuel bowl and possibly clog the jet.

That's a good idea and it's not terribly difficult to clean them out. I did look in the bowls and did not notice any crud in them, though.

It could be the fiber timing gear has broken loose from it's metal hub. Assuming you don't have a clutch fan and the belt is tight enough, rock the engine back and forth using the fan and watch the rotor. It should turn with the engine. If there's a delay before the rotor starts to spin, the gear has probably broken loose.

If you think the reluctor has spun, check the orientation of the notch. It should line up with one of the arms and the groove in the shaft.

I presume that's all under the plate the pickup sits on? Thanks for the pictures!

Oh and I did that check for the timing gear, everything seems to move in sync.
 
Under car fuel filter?
I've found add on ones that were hard to see.

One before the tank overhaul.
 

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I'll have to check for that fuel filter, but as noted it's getting fuel. Plenty in the bowls.

Speaking of, cleaned out the Jets and no change.
Put known good gas in the bowls after cleaning out the jets and no change.

Turns out the ignition is a Pertronix igniter. I tried to put a timing light on it but could not get it to light up. There's good spark out of the coil, though. I happen to have a Crane ignition kit on hand so I'm going to install that and see how it goes.
 
So wait, spark at the coil means your pertronix is fine. Check the mechanical advance (if equipped) for spring tension if you turn just the rotor it should snap back, if that's good, check for spark at each plug.
 
Have you checked the valve clearances?
What about compression?

As someone else suggested, I would pull one plug wire at a time while the car is running.
If nothing changes, then focus on that cylinder.
 
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Sorry for the late update, but life happened and I didn't touch the car for 3 weeks.

Ended up replacing the Pertronix with a Crane unit. Also replaced plugs, cap and rotor in the process. Car runs fine now. Brief inspection of the cap didn't yield anything obvious.
 
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