• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

MicroSquirt... Was running great, died, all over the place now.

JKnuck6

JKnuck6

New member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Location
Fort Myers FL
Alright so this is what has been done...

1991 240 m47 (have a 244 with a t5 that will be swapped in)
Decent size Ebay Turbo at stock 8psi
MicroSquirt (with all the fixin's)
Volvo Blue Injectors 395cc

NEW: Plugs, wires, crank sensor, both fuel pumps, fuel filter (just oem stock replacements, will upgrade in the future), all vacuum lines

First off ever since micro, it has not started easy. Takes SO many cranks and obviously I am missing something there too. ANYWAY..

He is what happened... after A TON of cranks, it would finally start. It was running great when I had Snake Eater 1000cc injectors in there (for a short while). Drove probably 10 hours total running the TunerStudio AutoTune feature and it felt great, very dialed in, didnt want to up the boost and destroy my poor m47. Then, while driving to my first drift event, 33.5 miles into the 35 mile drive it died and absolutely would not start again. It was like a switch was flipped and the fuel was cut off.... This is when I replaced all the plugs, wires, and in tank pump. Nothing. Pulled the injectors, cleaned them, and started, but ran like absolute hell. I pulled the 1000cc injectors, put in the 395cc, along with a new in line oem bosch fuel pump, adjusted the tune for the injectors. It starts, and runs, but absolutely horrible! I can not even drive it because it will just randomly die. It will be running great, then stall out. Try to start it again... 1000 cranks later it will start up, die again.

I have checked the FPR by seeing if any fuel is making its way into the vacuum line and there is nothing there so I am ASSUMING that this part is fine... but who knows. Everything on this car has seemed to give me issue.

I know this is not the best description of whats going on. I am just at a loss. I have replaced so much stuff that doesnt seem to make any sort of difference at all and I am about 5 seconds away from sending it right to the crusher.

Ideas, Suggestions, Comments, Concerns all welcome. This is the first car I have tried to Micro and from everyone else who says "its easy, its the best thing ever" I feel like I have to be missing something "simple" here. Help PLEASEEEE (pic of my gold turd)

IMG_2973_zpsp9t8xjqj.jpg
 
Have you tried reloading the firmware? I fried one of the injector drivers running all 4 injectors off of injA with one resistor pack. I've since split the load by running 2 injectors off injA and 2 injectors off injB with 2 separate resistor packs.
 
VB242 said:
Have you tried reloading the firmware? I fried one of the injector drivers running all 4 injectors off of injA with one resistor pack. I've since split the load by running 2 injectors off injA and 2 injectors off injB with 2 separate resistor packs.
Click to expand...

I have not, I like this idea though.

I am just running on 93 pump gas. I have a wideband and it seems to read totally fine... then as mentioned cuts out of nowhere. I will load a MSQ file later today after work. (my apologies)
 
firmware, not just an msq. also you need to be datalogging. sounds like it's mainly just not tuned out.
 
I the firmware and tune check out... try spinning the fuses and cleaning the fuse contacts.
I've had that happen with 2 ms cars, and it was because the fuel pump relay was still pulling power through the stock fuse block.
 
At the risk of being obvious, since the car died while driving, have you confirmed that the problem is not electrical? Either a supply problem to the Microsquirt or an ignition problem are more likely to cause a condition where the engine quits at 33.5 miles into a 35 mile trip. Firmware or tune issues are unlikely to cause that kind of failure unless it is because your AFR is totally out to lunch and the spark plugs eventually failed because they are covered in soot.

Since you have severe starting problems, what are you doing for idle air control? Are you using the Bosch PWM idle air valve? Not enough air can complicate a hot restart. Are you flooding it with excessive cranking PW fuel?

Have you pulled the spark plugs to see what they look like?
 
Alright! Quick update...

So I had my neighbor (who owns a performance car shop) come over to check it out. He has put MS on dozens of cars and even runs his plane of MS, which is about the coolest thing I have ever heard. He agreed YES that my tune is out of whack but there is more than the tune (or lack there of) that is causing it to randomly die, and the messed up starting issue. He also said that AutoTune does and OKAY job but when the car is not running properly it doesnt know how to AutoTune correctly (which I fully understand). He adjusted the tune correctly... however he said everything else looked fine... Cranking Pulse, Warm up Enrich, etc.

- I checked all the fuses and connections, sanded everything down and replaced a few fuses... they were not blown, but just looked like they were from 1992. Alas, it still has a horrible start up issue and DIES right when it hits normal operating temp. He thinks even though I have replaced all the pumps and filters that there still is an issue with the supply system or even the FPR.
- As for the AFR's being out of whack due to a bad sensor, he agreed that the AFR's seem to be correct. When it is at idle, they are great, when he was goosing it up to 5000rpm (after he fixed my horrible tune) they read great as well. There is just a stupid lapse in fuel pressure issue that we will now be trying to narrow down.

Next Steps...
- He said he is going to built a little rig to test the Fuel Pressure with a gauge set up out of parts in his shop. His advised to me "go ahead and order a walbro 255, appropriate lines, a quality aftermarket fuel rain, and an Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator with a gauge."
- He also suggested that because it cuts out so randomly that there could be bad wiring to one, or both, of the fuel pumps. So getting a reading on those will be done as well before I goes nuts and replace all the brand new OEM stuff, with brand new aftermarket stuff.
- Lastly he said that even tho the pumps could be reading fine, but that the Fuel Pump Relay could seem like its working fine, but be randomly crapping out here and there, which I have had happen on another 240 of mine in the past. I doubt the issue is something this simple, even though I hope it is! That would be amazing, but who knows.

Obviously I dont wanna spend $500+ on all this stuff considering I only paid $700 for the car, but if his test rig shows that there is a fuel pressure issue or wiring voltage issue than this might be the way to go.

As for the start up issue... that he is kind of at a loss on. It sure seems like it is getting the pressure it needs, the tables he was pulling up and checking all looked spot on. So potentially the Fuel Pressure is the main cause of this too? Who Knows! I have no family in town so tomorrow will be work on the car day. I will try to get both an MSQ file, but a Data Log file uploaded on here so I can see what you Volvo MS expects think.

Thanks again for everyone suggestions, thoughts, and experiences!
 
well.... scratch all of this. It was the Fuel Pressure Regulator.

Yes the tune was out of whack, but it runs great now. Adjusted the tune for the last hour and she is running like a champ!
 
good deal. yeah, it's a tough pill to swallow some times, but I've found over the years it's rarely the ecu when stuff starts acting wierd (but that's the easiest thing to blame.. I still do it myself occasionally)
 
It is easy to do because I am still just learning it. Only been in the car a couple months. When you have replaced all the hard parts, it seems that the only thing it could be, is the 1 thing I have no idea about! Just need to learn myself a bit better

Still an issue with the start up. Not sure whats going on there. Everyone I have talked to that has their Volvo on MS has never run into this problem. Not sure what else to try honestly
 
JKnuck6 said:
Still an issue with the start up. Not sure whats going on there. Everyone I have talked to that has their Volvo on MS has never run into this problem. Not sure what else to try honestly
Click to expand...

Probably because they are liars or have selective amnesia.

Given your fuel pressure problems, are you sure your Req Fuel is correctly set for the rail pressure and injector size? All the Tuner Studio fuel PW settings are based on Req Fuel and if your Req Fuel is screwy, nobody can provide sensible advice.

Are you running EGO correction? If so, it must be disabled during cranking and engine warm up.

Is this a cold start problem or a hot start problem or both? One simple test is while attempting a start, open the throttle plate a little bit to allow the admission of more air to the engine. If this helps with a quicker start, your problem may not be in the fuel settings; but, with your idle air control settings. If opening the throttle plate a large amount facilitates starting then chances are that you are flooding the engine during cranking and need to reduce your cranking PW.

Assuming the problem is not idle air, when you have had a sustained non start condition, stop and pull one of the spark plugs. If it is wet with fuel then increasing the prime pulse and cranking pulse widths is probably not the answer. If it is fuel fouled you may need to reduce the cranking PW (if its really fouled a new set of plugs may be in order). If the plug is not fuel fouled then try increasing the cranking PW in small steps.

Remember, only adjust one parameter at a time and test after each adjustment.
 
gross polluter said:
JKnuck6 said:
even runs his plane of MS, which is about the coolest thing I have ever heard.
Click to expand...
About one of the dumbest things one could do as well.
Click to expand...
Wow, I'd rather play blindfolded in rush hour traffic than trust a small plane to a MegaSquirt. At least there's a chance that I'd survive a mishap on the ground. Isn't this some sort of major FAA safety violation, or can fools be fools regardless?
 
if it cranks easier with throttle opening, you're too rich. if it cranks slower you're too lean
 
bobxyz said:
Wow, I'd rather play blindfolded in rush hour traffic than trust a small plane to a MegaSquirt. At least there's a chance that I'd survive a mishap on the ground. Isn't this some sort of major FAA safety violation, or can fools be fools regardless?
Click to expand...

Certificated aircraft (basically manufactured GA aircraft) this would never be legal nor would anyone issue an STC for it.

Aircraft that fall under the experimental category it’s a free-for-all for the most part. Home builts, privately owned military aircraft, stuff like that. We recently had an EJ20 powered RV-7 crash in SD county on its maiden flight due to loss of power on takeoff. $150k down the drain in an instant.

I remember when I was younger all this automotive swap stuff in airplanes sounded cool. Once you get in this industry and develop an understanding why this stuff is so expensive and redundant, it’s easy to see why anything automotive has no place in an airplane.

The title of this thread is a perfect example.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top