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Old 08-17-2020, 12:41 PM   #1
rb92673
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Default Help with T04E Turbo Leaks at Manifold

I have been having a hard time keeping my T04E turbo attached to my 90+ b230 exhaust manifold. This is on an endurance race 745. I run for 8-24 hours at a time.

I have used good copper coated locking exhaust nuts and hardened studs. Exhaust studs have backed several times, once resulting in broken studs in the manifold. I then attempted to safety wire the studs so they did not back out. After two days of racing I can see a gap between the turbo and the manifold. I am running about 13 psi if that makes a difference, at the end of the last race we were down to about 6 psi at the end.

I had the same problem with the studs from turbo to wastegate and wastegate to downpipe. Locking nuts and safety wired studs has stopped the studs from backing out.

Should I just weld the studs to the manifold, is there better locking hardware I can get?
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Old 08-17-2020, 12:50 PM   #2
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Maybe use something other than copper nuts?
I've never heard such thing happening...
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Old 08-17-2020, 12:50 PM   #3
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Have you tried Nord-Lock washers?
https://www.nord-lock.com/nord-lock/products/washers/
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:00 PM   #4
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Nordlock washers and a MLS Nissan t3 turbo gasket might help.
But for sure on the nordlocks. The t3 turbo on the rally car was constantly coming loose before those were installed.
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Old 08-17-2020, 02:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
Nordlock washers and a MLS Nissan t3 turbo gasket might help.
But for sure on the nordlocks. The t3 turbo on the rally car was constantly coming loose before those were installed.
Was the turbo coming loose because the studs were backing out?

What kind of nuts are you using with the nordlocks?

I have no gasket currently.
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Old 08-17-2020, 03:49 PM   #6
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Hi temp loctite on the studs? What about staking the nuts with a punch or chisel?
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Old 08-17-2020, 03:56 PM   #7
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So... I have been reading a bunch on some turbo Miata sites about the same problem. Turbo street cars were fine with normal hardware, but the fast track cars were stretching the studs. Safety wire, nord-locks, Stage 8, all were having problems. The studs would stretch and loosen from long amounts of time at WOT. Thier solution after much testing was inconel studs with locking nuts

Mine are safety wired and have lock nuts. Both of which are still intact, but I can see light through the manifold to turbo. I suspect my studs stretched as they are just hardened steel.
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Old 08-17-2020, 03:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
Hi temp loctite on the studs? What about staking the nuts with a punch or chisel?
After two hours on track the intake manifold and turbo are glowing. There are some very high temp threadlockers available, but the safety wire between two studs should have kept it from turning.
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Old 08-17-2020, 04:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rb92673 View Post
Was the turbo coming loose because the studs were backing out?

What kind of nuts are you using with the nordlocks?

I have no gasket currently.
Not sure in the cause. The studs didn't appear to be coming loose.
The nuts are (and were) m10 shouldered flange nuts with a crimped top.

We ran a gasket until the turbo got loose and blew it out. Now we're on no gasket island. We will know how it works after our next race in November.
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Old 08-17-2020, 04:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rb92673 View Post
After two hours on track the intake manifold and turbo are glowing. There are some very high temp threadlockers available, but the safety wire between two studs should have kept it from turning.
Do you have added venting in the hood over the turbo?
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Old 08-17-2020, 04:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Do you have added venting in the hood over the turbo?
I do not, but it couldn't hurt.
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Old 08-17-2020, 05:02 PM   #12
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We have two ~8"x14" vents in the hood (ebay jeep ones). Check out Pat244ti's rally car build for vent placement.

https://forums.turbobricks.com/showp...&postcount=118
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Old 08-19-2020, 02:25 PM   #13
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Well I ordered an 'Inconel' studs set with A286 studs (which really isn't Inconel), Nord-Lock style washers and special nuts. We will see how it does at keeping the turbo attached in a 24 hour race on September 12.
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Old 08-24-2020, 05:24 AM   #14
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I found my turbo loose yesterday, let us know how that setup works for you.
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Old 08-24-2020, 05:47 AM   #15
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damn!
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:16 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
I found my turbo loose yesterday, let us know how that setup works for you.
When I disassembled the exhaust this weekend, the studs were tight in the manifold and the crimped nuts were firmly attached. The safety wire was also intact. I am guessing the studs stretched very slightly. I cannot tell with the naked eye compared to another stud. There was enough room to see light between the turbo and manifold, maybe a paper sheet's worth of room.

I bought these studs:
https://www.full-race.com/store/prec...-hardware-kit/

The nuts were non-locking, so I also bought some stage 8 locking nuts:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/stg-3951

I haven't decided if I will use the nord-lock type washers that came with the studs. I should have it all back on by the end of the week, but my race isn't until Sept 12th.
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:39 PM   #17
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So the above setup did not work after several hours of racing. Leaking boost between the manifold and turbo again.
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:57 PM   #18
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This might help. The single layer gaskets just blow out when there's a slight leak.

https://www.enjukuracing.com/product...t-rb25det.html
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
This might help. The single layer gaskets just blow out when there's a slight leak.

https://www.enjukuracing.com/product...t-rb25det.html
Yep.



PS I take credit for the Nord lock solution Such a ****ing headache without them. Coated 14mm hex lock nuts. M10x1.25 pitch for extra clamping action.

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Old 09-15-2020, 03:36 PM   #20
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Thanks for the gasket link. I was not running any gasket.

I don't know if the studs stretched, but I have to tear it down and rebuild the turbo anyways. In fact the entire bottom end ran it's last race, it's is leaking Exxon Valdez levels of oil. Between blowing the seals on the turbo and leaking out of the engine we went through 5 gallons of oil in a 24 hour race.
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