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Old 09-14-2020, 11:58 PM   #1
BeaverMeat
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Default Ford 302 cooling system tweaking

Alright, an other Small Block Ford thread by yours truly.

The cooling system needs some tweaking. It has worked for the last 17 years and 30,000km (19,000 miles) but, I am Mr. Perfection.

The 1989 5.0 is plumbed into the OE 1981 D24 radiator (I don't know if there was any difference between other engines). An electric fan set-up was installed. One single fan on the back side left, and a fan on the right side front (strange). I noticed the temp gauge likes to rise from middle position (1/2 way to HOT) and slowly raise up to the 3/4 position when sitting at lights. Goes back down after I start moving. I guess it's been this way since the swap was done... but it bugs me. I like a steady temp.

Is there an issue I am missing? Or is it simply a matter of installing a better fan set-up, changing the thermostat, or adjusting the temp of the fan cut-in, OR... get a new rad?

Any input or similar experiences?

Thanks!
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:05 AM   #2
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Clean radiator, clean fins, if no change, you need more airflow at low speeds, better electric fans/ OEM fans out of a car pull more air than most aftermarket. I've used fans from multiple cars over the years, I think there was some ford that lots of people used (some Taurus maybe)
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:22 AM   #3
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Thats what I kinda thought... basic stuff. I'm thinking the overall design wasn't done with optimum efficiency in mind. Just to work.

I'll get some pics up yet. The fan on the back side is bolted to the rad with 3/4" spacers away from the fins. No shroud of any kind. The other fan is placed about 4 inches away from the front of the rad. I think this was done to increase airflow... sort of a hack job but it works. lol

I’ve read about the Taurus fan on StangNet. That may be the route to go. Just have to find the right year.

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Old 09-15-2020, 12:38 AM   #4
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Go to 240turbo.com Dave has an excellent write up on keeping a turbo Volvo cool. I know it’s a different application but would still apply to the 5.0.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:49 AM   #5
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Lincoln mark 8 fan w/appropriate alt/radiator of the e-fans/pretty powerful.

Or just T-static clutched fan/B280/V6 shroud? IIRC the 2 & 7 V6 shrouds are a little different.

Make sure the radiator isn't clogged, maybe get an aftermarket rad that size with ~2" hoses closer to what an SBF ford pickup would have or whatever?
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:56 AM   #6
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Lincoln mark 8 fan w/appropriate alt/radiator of the e-fans/pretty powerful.

Or just T-static clutched fan/B280/V6 shroud? IIRC the 2 & 7 V6 shrouds are a little different.

Make sure the radiator isn't clogged, maybe get an aftermarket rad that size with ~2" hoses closer to what an SBF ford pickup would have or whatever?
She's a 5.0. from an '89 Stang



Sorry, I can't help myself... lol. My wife is getting bit annoyed with this Five-point-oh talk all day. "bye, honey. I'm off to roll in my five-point-oh"

I'll have to take a closer look at it. Perhaps only one fan is working
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:11 PM   #7
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Well... they both work but, the system doesn’t cut-in till the gauge is 3/4 to the orange square of death.
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:25 PM   #8
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It might not actually be an issue - the engine does get warmer and cooler in diff situations, Volvo put a temp faker board in them originally to stop people from complaining to the service departments.

What sort of temp send is feeding the temp gauge? A Volvo sender adapted to the motor?
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:38 PM   #9
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Get some CLR and clean out the radiator, and flush the crap out of it. Then your mind will be at ease.
Drift car sits at 210-220F when getting beat on all day. It just has c3 vette aluminum radiator (I think?) and a decent shrouded fan.
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
It might not actually be an issue - the engine does get warmer and cooler in diff situations, Volvo put a temp faker board in them originally to stop people from complaining to the service departments.

What sort of temp send is feeding the temp gauge? A Volvo sender adapted to the motor?
Unsure will have to follow some wires. I talked to the guy who did the swap and he couldnít remember (and was busy). If I had to guess itís a Ford sender wired into the Volvo gauge cluster.

Talked to my dad about it and his 302 powered Cobra kit car does the same thing.

Iím just being picky I guess. lol. Itís my first Volvo/ford.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:08 PM   #11
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I'm overly paranoid about my turbo LS swap overheating in my 240 as well. No temp faker board, and a Volvo temp gauge sender stuck in a radiator hose.

It gets more efficient at shedding heat the hotter it gets (until it actually boils, at least), so there's that. But yeah, mine has a hard time getting rid of heat when going slow, sitting still, even with two decent(?) fans blowing air through, it just needs more CFM. I have a higher CFM replacement for one of them (no room on the other one), but haven't put it in yet.

It's never actually overheated though, just had the temp gauge creep up. Worst was once going about 85 mph up mountains in TN (going to MM) when traffic suddenly came to a halt and sat there for about 20 minutes. I kept watching the gague creep up, opened Tuner studio and looked at the temp number there (different sender), going slowly up. 210. 215. 220. I turned the heater and fan on full and opened the windows. The higher it got, the slower it climbed. It got to about 235 before traffic started to move. And dropped back down. Pretty clearly a case of not enough air moving capacity at low speeds.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:19 PM   #12
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A fan without a shroud is very inefficient at cooling. It will pull most of the air it is flowing from the side. The path of least resistance.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:08 PM   #13
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I forget with the EFI 302/5.oh SBF, IIRC the exploder/mountainqueer 302 water pump is shorter & spins backwards to shoe-horn the SBF-V8 into the compact truck/SUV?

B280/V6 shroud and nice strong quiet plastic bladed T-static clutched fan (similar to the infamous 4runner V6/Steeper pitched T100 version 'ring' fan Design/concept: : Execution/implementation: )?
Make sure fan blade is right for your intended application/direction the fan spins .

If the T-static tropical clutched plastic blade fan is good enough for John Lane's old turbo V6 rally car (no A/C, but powerstroke IC blocking most radiator air, yes) & replaced some e-fan junk that never kept it cool enough under beating in hot weather, it should work on a V8 too, if space/shrouding allows?

Or e-fan if you have something like the factory-quality 200A alt used on the powerstroke ambulances & powerful/large enough fan & shroud with some bypass flaps for highway/no fan use to go with along with quality controller/wiring etc. May not necessarily be TB-Ch33p™/easy, but everyone loooooooooves the e-fan mod here/something to mess with indefinitely for .17Ę/hr?

& of course make sure the radiator is any darn good/straight/clean.
Non-A/C/non-intercooled the cooling load should be a lot more manageable than intercooler+A/C condenser.
This is a big bumper car no? Got an airdam/airpickup in place for hill-climbing etc?
Also, at some point on the 240 for heavier use, depending on engine etc, it probably needs a bypass type heater valve instead of just shut-off/restriction (that's a high RPM thing on the redblocks/some other engines more than an idling BTUs thing).

Or the radiator hose sizes may be undersized on a V8 car towing/loaded heavily (shouldn't be a big deal for an N/A SBF/haven't had a problem with setup for a B280 car )

Boosted+A/C+V8+loaded heavy street car that does brutal hill climbs/etc, at some point, even ducted well, radiator size that's easy to service without cutting/hacking the front metal/'frame horms' (bumper shock supports) and clutch fan broad spectrum efficiency/some noise/belt grip may be somewhat limiting?
Always like to run a good t-static clutched fan w/well designed plastic blade when space allows/it's easy/doable?

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Old 09-15-2020, 08:00 PM   #14
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Yeah, it’s wired into the Volvo rad bung. The hoses are the Ford 2” hose on the smaller Volvo necks.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:08 PM   #15
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^I only use that switch for the pusher fan for A/C, T-static clutched, plastic bladed mech fan only ,otherwise
240TIC+A/C factory bolt-in bosch pusher fan for early sheetmetal?
Works well...almost like the factory...thought of this?

There're probably LOTS of quality factory choices for UV resistant plastique fan blade/T-static clutch for the SBF in the day, no?
Tho they haven't rally made the SBF since ~Y2K or so with any stringent quality control/federally implied warranties/long-life constraints?
Many of the truck variety have metal blades, which I'm a little leery of (they work/good longevity), but can also fail catastrophically (don't let it run for years bent/out of balance after a collision/loose rivets/seized bearing/locked up clutch?) or rev it up to the sky callously/carelessly without carefully inspecting everything with your neck in the path of the fan?
Darwin award?

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Old 09-15-2020, 08:20 PM   #16
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Both the pusher and puller are wired into the same module that is wired to the rad switch.

I think I’m going to wire in a Ford switch to run the puller and the Volvo into the pusher for the time being. I may need to upgrade the rad depending on that I can find that fits.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:23 PM   #17
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maybe you've run across this...
https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=286849

used an aluminum Griffin radiator
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-1-26241-xs/all
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:22 PM   #18
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Good to know for future reference. Right now I have to do this on the cheap.

You know what... I think I'm just overreacting. lol

Relying on a gauge position instead of actual temperatures.

From what I have read a Foxbody 5.0L is supposed to run a bit hot anyways...


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Old 09-17-2020, 06:13 PM   #19
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I am also very concerned with overheating.
This is the setup I had on a 305 conversion I did about 15 years ago.
A pusher, two pullers and a fan cooled oil cooler.
The only time I had a problem was sitting in traffic for 2 hours, 90+ degrees outside and the A/C blasting. All was well until the fuse socket melted.
BTW this was fed by a 180 amp alternator.



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Old 09-17-2020, 06:44 PM   #20
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One of these cools better than dual 12" pullers on my car: https://www.flex-a-lite.com/electric...oller-663.html

It's all in the shroud and spacing the fan as far away from the core as possible.
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Old 09-17-2020, 07:16 PM   #21
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@TR Conn
What radiator is that? Haven't seen a port in the endtank like that before.
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Old 09-17-2020, 07:19 PM   #22
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I noticed the temp gauge likes to rise from middle position (1/2 way to HOT) and slowly raise up to the 3/4 position when sitting at lights. Goes back down after I start moving.
Without a doubt, you have identified the problem perfectly. If it cools down with more airflow, then that's what it wants.
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Is there an issue I am missing? Or is it simply a matter of installing a better fan set-up, changing the thermostat, or adjusting the temp of the fan cut-in, OR... get a new rad?
New thermostat won't help a bit. That affects only the engine minimum temperature, not the maximum.

New radiator is unlikely to help unless this one is clogged, in which case cleaning is a better option. The diesel version is a stout unit, physically wider than the gas version. Compare the square inches to the Mustang and it's a little smaller but not much. The average radiator shop loves the old metal units compared to the aluminum/plastic disposable things sold today, even though it's getting more expensive to source core material for repair.

Some folks rationalize that V8 heat is normal. But for the folks who have fixed the issue, the secret is fans. Gotta install as much airflow as you can fit, and a charging system to support it. (I never found a mechanical fan clutch with a short enough fore-aft distance to squeeze in there, and not for lack of trying.)

Folks like Dave Barton and Michael Yount talk about how many Amps the fans draw, as a reasonably good substitute for a CFM measurement. In general, it seems that if you don't supply at least 20-30A, it's going to have that issue at idle. Some folks toss around even higher numbers. Depends on your climate.
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Old 09-17-2020, 07:26 PM   #23
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@TR Conn
What radiator is that? Haven't seen a port in the endtank like that before.
Looks like a PRV rad from a 260.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:13 PM   #24
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^This/PRV/Stock 260 there/larger inlet/outlets than Diseasel, but both old by now/make sure it's any good.
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Old 09-18-2020, 12:22 AM   #25
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How does the PRV rad compare to the Diesel in size?
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