242 IT race car- who is running one?

Thinking about setting up a 242 turbo as an It car. wanted feedback from anyone running one now or in recent past.

Questions relate to category, any hard -earned wisdom you might part with etc.

In the scca rules it appears that they do not regulate which turbo,correct? As well as which manifold both intake and exhaust?

Can you run a B230 turbo engine? What class if you go 16 valve route? But perhaps that gets you into too many "real" race car sedans!!

I did some TB forum searches but didn't find a lot of data.

I have dome a lemons race in a 242 do, and had a BMW 2002 tii IT car before.

Thanks

You should probably hook up with folks in the SCCA community who know the rules. Gotta think if the 240 turbo was able to be competitive in the I.T. class we'd have seen them in droves. The old 142 "Volvos From Hell" wreaked havoc in ITB for a few years. But I don't think you're going to have much luck with a 240 turbo in I.T. Unless of course you just want to run one. If that's the case, I'd build what I wanted to and use PCA and BMWCCA track events (or other similar outings) to have fun with it.

240 Turbo will fall into a local ITE category, most likely. You'll probably get crushed by whatever shows up that approaches a "real" race car, because that class is quite open. Check with your region, as I don't believe ITE is a national class, so rules may vary.

Non-turbo 4cyl 240 will be in ITB. Not sure if it can really be competitive or not. It'll be fun though, with ~140hp and race tires and a well setup suspension...they're easy to drive fast as you probably know.

I'd build it for lemons, even if it's over budget, so what if you get hammered with penalty laps, you still get tons of track time and have fun racing wheel to wheel. We have a B230F running about 14psi on a 60trim T3 with an awesome suspension setup under us and we get zero penalty laps in lemons, but we've been around a few years building the car up slowly. I can't imagine building an ITB car that's slower, and you only get to run 15 laps races...no thanks. An all out ITE 240 Turbo would be fun though. Only one I know of hasn't been raced in years.

Ask reeferman. I think he started out in ITB with his 242. And yes, he was competitive. At one point, 142Es ruled ITB.

I found a copy of the 2011 rules with a couple of relevant addendum. They list the 69-74 142/4 with 2.0L pushrod motor and 10.5:1 compression ratio (that helps a lot right there) as eligible in ITB with minimum weight of 2560 (as raced - with driver).

For the 242/4 - they list the 75 with 2.0L pushrod motor and 8.7:1 comp ratio; and the 76 w/2.1L OHC motor and 9.3:1 comp ratio as ITB legal at a minimum weight as raced (with driver) of 2780 lbs. You can see the handicap compared to the 142 -- whatever 242/4 you can build, you can build a 200 lb. lighter 142/4 with a point or two more compression. Anywhere the 242 is going to be competitive, the 142 should be capable of besting it. However - and I find this odd - they also list as eligible an 83-85 242/4 with the 2.3L OHC engine and 10.3:1 compression ratio. Don't know why - that motor was never available in this country that I'm aware of. In any event, I don't think 18 cubes can make up for 200 lbs. They also don't show ITE any longer - there is an ITR class however. But it doesn't list the Volvo turbos as being eligible.

That's the best I've got. If you peruse the class wins over the years - about all you'll find is a period of time when the 142's were competitive. But when the Honda CRX's were approved for ITB back in the early 90's, they started making the 142's and BMW 2002's non-competitive. Suspect there are contemporary options that are advantaged -- they're known in IT (and other classes) for wanting to keep cars that look something like what people are driving today competitive and not really caring much if the old stuff cycles out of competition.

M.H. Yount said:

they also list as eligible an 83-85 242/4 with the 2.3L OHC engine and 10.3:1 compression ratio. Don't know why - that motor was never available in this country that I'm aware of.

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It was, the high compression flat-top piston B23F came with auto trans only for a couple years? Manual trans in same years was 9.5:1 right?

ya, flat top was ~10.3, dished b23f was ~9.5 published.

the p/n for engine was superseded from b21 --> b23 --> b230f according to those who have looked into it, so I think you could run a b23 or b230 in any 76+ 240 chassis that's listed as eligible.

tricky part might be using the D cam because it was listed in the green manual for b21f, but then replace the bottom end with a 2.3. not sure if that's legal.

if you're building an IT car, know the rules very well, and exploit them as best you can.

Perhaps a flat top B230 is legal these would suggest that it is, but I don't know that for a fact. (link to R-sport intl site) http://yhst-26451710505916.stores.yahoo.net/itbflb2rapii.html

We had a 242 ITB car that Jonathan ran a little bit, but minimum class weight for a 242 in ITB was something like 2750-2800 IIRC off the top of my head... Reeferman and us switched our ITB cars over to G-Production which allowed us to run with spec miatas etc, main difference being that we can't run a header, but we can have a minimum weight of 2508 which makes a huge difference.

Here is the one I ran this year:

I have been looking at Dancia's pictures of his 242 race car wow it looks awesome. Anyone in the Nw region see it race? What else was in its class. I don't know about icscc. Thanks.

yes rich's car was fun to watch on starts....he would pass 5 to 10 cars because of the turbo.They would all catch him because of the poor handing...
8 cars ran this year in ICSCC Porsche , corvettes , BMWs, 350z and WRX

ill be running SPM in a year or so... more cars in class and very little rules

excerpt from 2011 & 2012 GCR - 9.1.3.A ... Turbocharged/Supercharged cars are not eligible for Improved Touring competition. Cars need not be eligible for state license or registration.

NASA is all about dyno'd horsepower for their performance touring classes.

What about Vintage racing? From what I've heard there's a pretty good Vintage scene in the US.

The vintage scene has become quite robust -- but you have to check carefully to see what kind of track time you're going to get. My impression is that as it has become more popular, track time is declining. Suspect LeMons/Chump is the best track time for the buck if you want to race door to door. If you just want to track your car, the club scene is probably the way to go.

Got my door-to-door racing out of my system when I was younger. Now that I'm far from a spring chicken, when I feel the need for speed - I just write a big check to BMW or Porsche and go tear up some of their new stuff. And with stability control - you almost can't hurt them. Only thing better than racing/tracking - is doing it with someone else's car.

Vintage? IT? PT? Depends on what polopharm's goals are.

Polo - why race? Because it's cool to have a great lookin' car on the track? Want to be a competent road racer? Want to be a competitive road racer?

Have you spent a race weekend at the track? That pretty much means Friday morning to last race of the day on Sunday. On Friday you'll get some good track time IF it's an open (non-SCCA sponsored) track day. If it's sponsored by SCCA things will be very rigidly managed by class. All (ok, most of) the rules will be in effect. Assuming a double race weekend, Saturday will have a morning 25 minute practice session, a morning 25 minute qualifying session followed up by your race in the afternoon - Groups 1 thru 5 each being about 40 minutes in length. Sunday, do it all over again. A lot of down time. Might be good for putting pieces back together.

So, if you haven't already go out and do a race weekend as a spectator or better yet, a volunteer. If you don't like doin' the time then there's no use spending the bucks to participate.

Going fast on the fast line is fun and fairly easy to do. But that doesn't mean you can go fast in a crowd - that takes "race craft" which is developed over a long period of time - experience or schools - your choice. I've seen a ton of racers go out and set a good lap. Look at their cumulative laps and they are all over the map (10 seconds between best and worst). A competent racer will go out and nail 10 laps within 1/2 second - 5 seconds slower than the pole sitter in your class. Now you're ready to update your driving skills and/or equipment to move the lap times up to a competitive time. That's the difference between competent and competitive.

If the race weekend is a double regional event you'll be hanging out with the guys you're competing against. If it is a double national / regional event you will be on track with all the national classes that have been assigned to your Group. The guys racing national (typically) are looking to qualify for the Runoffs in September. Much higher quality of driver. They don't really care if you are a regional car - you're just taking up track space while they are looking & finding the best places to pass. Typically, there is not much respect shown for the regional guys when on track. It is what it is - varsity / reserve kinda thing. If you didn't know already, drivers have egos, some pretty damn big.

I've worked with new racers that were competitive but they really didn't like the whole race weekend gig. Not enough track time. Too much of a time commitment (06:00 - 20:00) for a day. Bunches of broken bits that put you on the trailer Saturday morning.

Vintage racing? It's all about hanging with guys-n-gals that believe that it's more about the car and less about the driver. Competition rules in many cases eliminate aggressive door-to-door racing. A lot of fun for those that like to hang around cars from back in the day - all period specific - way more social than the typical SCCA event.

It's all good - just depends on what polo wants to get out of it.

Oh yea, generally speaking, SCCA national events have better drivers than NASA but the rules & race management of SCCA club racing can be a REAL PITA.

geez Tony. I didn't think my car handled that badly. I don't remember being passed by 10 cars.


Rich

Dancia said:

geez Tony. I didn't think my car handled that badly. I don't remember being passed by 10 cars.


Rich

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i should have said some cars with better handling not 10.

it was cool see you pass all the pro3 cars on the restarts !