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Old 06-28-2018, 10:51 PM   #1
RealHumanBean
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Default Where to look for new Timing pulleys

Hey guys, I'm in a bit of a bind, anyone know of anywhere I can order some new timing pulleys? I'm stuck on my timing belt change here, Every time I line up the markings on the timing belt with the ones on the pulleys and go to fire it up it doesn't work. It looks as if the belt is skipping teeth, and upon inspection the pulleys are in really rough shape.

The overhead camshaft pulley is pretty well rounded out and wobbles, the Auxiliary pulley has a massive gash in it (Maybe from a rock somewhere in this vehicles 40 year history), as well as some broken teeth. And the crank pulley is just plain a mess.

My problem is I can't seem to find a factory style set of these three pulleys. The only ones I've been able to locate are 130ish dollar racing oriented ones. And even then they only seem to be Camshaft pulleys. Anyone know where to find some, preferrable without going to the trouble of robbing some out of a junkyard that might be as bad as the ones I've got?

Also I'm open to input on what I could be doing wrong with the timing belt swap, I've followed a few guides and arrived at the conclusion that the belt has got to be skipping. After spinning the engine around a few times the marks on the belt don't seem to realign with the ones on the pulleys.

The car in question is a 1979 Volvo 242 with the B21F (I think it's an F.) engine.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:02 PM   #2
dl242gt
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it may be time to make sure the cam or intermediate shaft isn't seizing in the engine. Good used pulleys are fine. Something has happened either debris or lack of oil changes maybe both. It is not normal for timing sprockets to have issues like you describe and there may be something else wrong.

The intermediate shaft should spin easily by hand. The cam should be able to be turned with some effort but should turn. You can grab the sprocket. Don't go too far just enough back and forth to make sure it moves properly.

If that stuff checks out. Are you sure you are using the correct timing belt? Volvo changed to round tooth belts in 1993 and a round tooth belt where a square tooth belt should be may skip easily.
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:19 AM   #3
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Post in wanted somebody has them.
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how psi stock cna support?

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Old 06-29-2018, 01:15 AM   #4
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If you could post pictures of the all of the timing belt pulleys in question, that might help.

And if you insist on new, I have a full set all new of both cam and IS timing belt pulleys and a crankshaft timing belt pulley in stock for your B21.

Don't worry about the marks on the belt not lining up after you have rotated the engine. The marks only line back up after multiple rotations, I can't remember how many.

What is important is that the timing marks on the pulleys stay aligned with marks on the engine when brought back to TDC for #1 cylinder.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:25 AM   #5
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is your belt round or square toothed?
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:29 AM   #6
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Don't worry about the marks on the belt not lining up after you have rotated the engine. The marks only line back up after multiple rotations, I can't remember how many.
It's every even number of rotations. 2, 4, 6, 8...
Because the crank turns twice for every single rotation of the cam.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:18 AM   #7
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It's every even number of rotations. 2, 4, 6, 8...
Because the crank turns twice for every single rotation of the cam.
You sure? I’ve never seen the marks on the belt line back up, but I guess I’ve never really looked either. I think they’re only for installation purposes.
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmos View Post
It's every even number of rotations. 2, 4, 6, 8...
Because the crank turns twice for every single rotation of the cam.
The timing marks on the gears line up every other rotation.

The belt marks line up after a whole lot more.

This is because the number of teeth on the belt is different than the number of teeth on the cam gear. 123 teeth I think, odd non-prime numbers are smart because it spreads the firing loads and cam loads to every single tooth on the belt.

Some timing gear setups won’t line back up until 40 or 50ish revolutions.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
it may be time to make sure the cam or intermediate shaft isn't seizing in the engine. Good used pulleys are fine. Something has happened either debris or lack of oil changes maybe both. It is not normal for timing sprockets to have issues like you describe and there may be something else wrong.

The intermediate shaft should spin easily by hand. The cam should be able to be turned with some effort but should turn. You can grab the sprocket. Don't go too far just enough back and forth to make sure it moves properly.

If that stuff checks out. Are you sure you are using the correct timing belt? Volvo changed to round tooth belts in 1993 and a round tooth belt where a square tooth belt should be may skip easily.
They were working just fine before I took the old belts off, the engine was sputtering when it was just starting out, but I think that was down to a very worn timing belt.

The intermediate spins easily, the cam spins with some effort, as does the crank. I already spun the Crank quite a bit to try to realign it after the 2nd attempt to get the belt on right. It could be down to the belt not being right, Did Volvo use different length belts over the years? But otherwise the belt is square toothed just like the gears.

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Originally Posted by planetman View Post
If you could post pictures of the all of the timing belt pulleys in question, that might help.

And if you insist on new, I have a full set all new of both cam and IS timing belt pulleys and a crankshaft timing belt pulley in stock for your B21.

Don't worry about the marks on the belt not lining up after you have rotated the engine. The marks only line back up after multiple rotations, I can't remember how many.

What is important is that the timing marks on the pulleys stay aligned with marks on the engine when brought back to TDC for #1 cylinder.
Going off of the other poster, I cranked the whole set up over about 4 times to see if the belt ever realigns with the marks on the pulleys and they don't, so when the engine runs it seems like it's got to be skipping.

What are you looking to get for those pulleys? Want to PM me?

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is your belt round or square toothed?
The belt is square toothed, it seems to match up with the old belt that I took off.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:36 PM   #10
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The timing marks on the gears line up every other rotation.

The belt marks line up after a whole lot more.

This is because the number of teeth on the belt is different than the number of teeth on the cam gear. 123 teeth I think, odd non-prime numbers are smart because it spreads the firing loads and cam loads to every single tooth on the belt.

Some timing gear setups won’t line back up until 40 or 50ish revolutions.
Huh alright, so as long as the gears line back up to the notches on the case every two rotations it should be in alignment? In that case is it possible for the crank to be 180 degrees off when it looks like it is in alignment?
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:50 PM   #11
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As long as the crank has number one in firing position with the marks on the pulley lined up with the timing marks then that is ok. Next you put the cam in place with the mark on the cylinder head. The intermediate shaft should also be lined up.

The tensioner is spring loaded and when the locking nut is loose will spring tension the belt. Be sure to compensate a bit on the crank by turning it just slightly to the left. Then when the tension is taken up by the tensioner it will pull everything into alignment.

To release the tensioner properly you compress it with some large pliers and put a drill bit through the hole in the guide inside the spring. Release the locking nut to do this. The drill bit will hold it pulled back for belt installation. Don't worry about the marks on the belt. It's the marks on the engine that matter. When tightening the tensioner locking nut should be torqued to 36lb ft. You should reinstall the timing cover to help prevent debris from getting to the belt.
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:52 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
As long as the crank has number one in firing position with the marks on the pulley lined up with the timing marks then that is ok. Next you put the cam in place with the mark on the cylinder head. The intermediate shaft should also be lined up.

The tensioner is spring loaded and when the locking nut is loose will spring tension the belt. Be sure to compensate a bit on the crank by turning it just slightly to the left. Then when the tension is taken up by the tensioner it will pull everything into alignment.

To release the tensioner properly you compress it with some large pliers and put a drill bit through the hole in the guide inside the spring. Release the locking nut to do this. The drill bit will hold it pulled back for belt installation. Don't worry about the marks on the belt. It's the marks on the engine that matter. When tightening the tensioner locking nut should be torqued to 36lb ft. You should reinstall the timing cover to help prevent debris from getting to the belt.
Okay I follow you, but how can I tell if the crank is in the number one firing position? Is it just based on the mark on the case lining up with the mark on the pulley?

Otherwise I have the tensioner installed and it appears to be doing it's job. Should I help it by taking a pry bar and pulling it tighter when tightening the nut? Or just let it sit at where it naturally wants to be when the nut is loose.
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:25 PM   #13
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I know it sounds confusing, but it doesn't matter as long as the marks at the crankshaft line up and you are lining up the other marks at the same time. TDC for #1 is more a function of the camshaft position.
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:43 PM   #14
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The spring on the tensioner provides the tension needed.
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:51 PM   #15
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Alright I think I follow you. I recall it being mentioned somewhere that the positioning of the pulleys match clock positioning, so the intermediate should be at the 3 o' clock position correct? Cam pulley at 12ish and Crank at 11:30. If they are all in alignment it should work right?

I've adjusted them to that exact specification but it still won't fire. That sort of leaves me with that the belt must be slipping on the pulleys because they are worn/damaged. Either that or I'm missing something here. What is strange to me is the car ran before on those pulleys (Not very well but it still ran.)
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:17 PM   #16
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Line up all the marks per this first illustration. Then pop the distributor cap off and make sure the rotor is pointing at the notch in the body per the second illustration.



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Old 06-30-2018, 05:00 PM   #17
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Line up all the marks per this first illustration. Then pop the distributor cap off and make sure the rotor is pointing at the notch in the body per the second illustration.



Thanks so much for that, thanks to this I actually got the car running today. It's still running too rough to actually drive but when I give it gas it stays running. It seems pretty clunky though? Almost like I can hear something clunking. Could the timing need to be advanced?
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:44 PM   #18
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Alright Thanks guys! I got the car running and driving!
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:16 PM   #19
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Good one!
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