home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2017, 05:09 PM   #26
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Right but it's easy to smell oil vapors in the hose and misdiag. Liquid fuel is a giveaway.
__________________
No Start Thread
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 05:15 PM   #27
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
Right but it's easy to smell oil vapors in the hose and misdiag. Liquid fuel is a giveaway.
Yes, even my brand new one had a slight smell. But if you pull the line and gas is dripping out, it's time for a new one.
__________________
Feedback Thread
Current:
93' 244 m47
93' 245 m47
90' 744 AW70
94' M-Edition Miata
95' Camry auto
Past:
80' 242gt m46
88' 245 m47
92' 940 turbo AW17


If you stop and think about it, it’s literally not worth your time to get on TBOT every day and argue about politics.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 06:13 PM   #28
Lando
Arthur Digby Sellers
 
Lando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Rancho Relaxo
Default

Have you replaced your wiring harness yet?

My first Volvo (a 700) had quite a few wiring issues and I repaired the faults one by one as they presented themselves. Every few months I was trouble shooting and patching parts of the wiring harness. I'm sure that would have continued had I kept it longer. With all my volvos after that, I have replaced the ignition and main engine wiring harnesses at the first sign of failure. All of those cars were incredibly reliable and required next to zero electrical troubleshooting. I also typically pull all relays and reflow the solder on all the joints.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by amerbritcan View Post
Lando you have an enticing midriff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240240 View Post
get on my lawn

Last edited by Lando; 02-18-2017 at 06:19 PM..
Lando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 06:50 PM   #29
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lando View Post
Have you replaced your wiring harness yet?

My first Volvo (a 700) had quite a few wiring issues and I repaired the faults one by one as they presented themselves. Every few months I was trouble shooting and patching parts of the wiring harness. I'm sure that would have continued had I kept it longer. With all my volvos after that, I have replaced the ignition and main engine wiring harnesses at the first sign of failure. All of those cars were incredibly reliable and required next to zero electrical troubleshooting. I also typically pull all relays and reflow the solder on all the joints.
I thought that wasn't an issue on the later model cars.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 07:16 PM   #30
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Being a professional tech, if you came to my shop I would pop the hood and see a cone filter flapping around like a flacid member, electrical taped wiring, and other tampering and it would probably get turned away. If we did agree to work on it it would start with a clear explanation that there will be no guarantees and that we would start with an hour or two of diag and go from there.
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 07:35 PM   #31
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PromiseRing View Post
I thought that wasn't an issue on the later model cars.
It isn't. 1988 and newer Volvos don't have the biodegradable insulation.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 08:35 PM   #32
Otto Mattik
Board Member
 
Otto Mattik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: At work, or under a car
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumomike View Post
Yeah thats what i was thinking flooding from oversized injectors, strage how it happens only when hot though.. I am not in the parking lot, after like 20 min it started and let me home.

Harder to push fuel into a hot engine
Otto Mattik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 08:47 PM   #33
cleanflametrap
Board Member
 
cleanflametrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: near baltimore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumomike View Post
Wow Power stage is ridiculously expensive. Not a part i can just randomly switch it. better test for spark first.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vol...dule-3501921oe
Wow no kidding. $252. This might just be an example where even the most rigid true believers would say no to Genuine Volvo. Not saying, this late in the thread you need one, but if you decide you do, pick a used one or if you absolutely need a new one, Bosch without the volvo name on it.
__________________
-Art
cleanflametrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 11:22 PM   #34
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumomike View Post
Wow Power stage is ridiculously expensive. Not a part i can just randomly switch it. better test for spark first.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vol...dule-3501921oe
Buy Bosch, not Volvo.
__________________
Trying to understand stupid people is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 11:24 PM   #35
Fumomike
Board Member
 
Fumomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Valdosta, GA
Default

Ahhh im sick of this unreliability. My car seriously has too much wrong with it to start modding it like crazy. Im going to take off these oversized 550cc injectors tomorrow and put the stockish ones back in. The reason why i am saying this is because I was Dead Darn wrong. My car even after my last...last...last thread post saying it was not running rich in boost after letting it learn, is running rich AF again. This is even after i gave it a good amount of time to learn. I am pretty happy with 12-15 lbs of boost with the stock injectors and am pretty sure it will still say 10 AFRS even with the stock injectors. I'll start with 12 and work my way to 15 lbs of boost. Then it will be lean enough to provide a good amount of power. It will then probably start every time even with heat soak. Will start right away if i turn off then back on. However when i give it like 10-15 min. its hard to start. Then 20-30 min. later it can start. If the smaller injectors cures it then im thinking its something to do with flooding the cylinders and or ECT sensor.

I will run with the smaller injectors until i fix and diagnose the issues.

Problems:
Hot Start
Rich AFRs at Boost.


There should be no reason why i am running 10 Afrs at boost in the first place, even with stock injectors(untested). I must have some sort of boost leak or major sensor issue where the ecu wants to inject more fuel to compensate for something.

Its interesting because 10 AFRS with the stock injectors and stock maf actually has a ton of power on it.

Then when you put on the 550cc injectors(like double fuel flow) it runs like turd and you can't even hit one psi of boost
Then when you put on a 3 inch maf with the 550cc injectors it can get into boost but once you hit about 3-5 lbs of boost, it bogs down misfires, and slows down like soooo much.

I will update if switching back to smaller injectors fixes the issue(will keep 3 inch maf on there tho).

And yeah, I can't bring it to a shop because i know they will turn me down lol.

The harness is fine i think

Last edited by Fumomike; 02-19-2017 at 12:00 AM..
Fumomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2017, 01:48 AM   #36
Owsley
Board Member
 
Owsley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Francisco
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
^^ I agree that it could be the ECT, however, saying that if it starts once it has cooled down points to the ECT is a huge stretch.
I say this only because it's exactly what happened to my 240. I chased down every other thing that could cause it first because I didn't know how to replace the sensor. Once I got the deep socket and extension, it was easy and it solved my problem. I'm not saying it's the cause, I'm saying it's a likely thing to chase down. Replacing the sensor is less effort than testing it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack8745 View Post
I know it's hard to believe that someone wants (on turbobricks) to make things work the right way. My extensive search shows this hasn't happened since 2005 when there was a ziptie shortage and Tbrickers were forced to buy and use the correct parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Athlon View Post
This is the only forum in existence where people get mad that their cars are worth more than 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnysalt View Post
I don't know how to do anything, help! Whats the quickest easiest dumbass proof way to fix this besides taking it to someone who knows how?
Owsley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2017, 01:52 AM   #37
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

FWIW, my +t car runs like 10.0 to 10.6 AFR's at wot and just under 10 psi. Stock maf with the white bodied injectors (slightly bigger than factory I think).

Back in the day, the rich tune was considered safe for the old folks who filled their turbo cars with 87 octane. 87 is probably okay on a bone stock turbo motor, but fuel quality used to be rubbish and inconsistent. That's what I've been told at least.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2017, 04:41 AM   #38
Fumomike
Board Member
 
Fumomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Valdosta, GA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owsley View Post
I say this only because it's exactly what happened to my 240. I chased down every other thing that could cause it first because I didn't know how to replace the sensor. Once I got the deep socket and extension, it was easy and it solved my problem. I'm not saying it's the cause, I'm saying it's a likely thing to chase down. Replacing the sensor is less effort than testing it.
Okay sounds good. I'll make one last ditch effort with the ECT and distributor rotor, also will spray electronic cleaner on the power stage and fender related stuff. Also just set up regulator today on compressor to do the boost leak test.

Does rich during boost point to ECT too?
Fumomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2017, 09:03 AM   #39
cleanflametrap
Board Member
 
cleanflametrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: near baltimore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owsley View Post
I say this only because it's exactly what happened to my 240. I chased down every other thing that could cause it first because I didn't know how to replace the sensor. Once I got the deep socket and extension, it was easy and it solved my problem. I'm not saying it's the cause, I'm saying it's a likely thing to chase down. Replacing the sensor is less effort than testing it.
You're right. Especially for a T-bricker who isn't intimate with a multimeter. Part swaps are quick.

But I say the effort is worthwhile because, although the replacement "fixed" the trouble, often times the part itself wasn't bad, but oxidation, corrosion, moisture, crud made connection to it unreliable. Think of all the things you've "fixed" by wiggling a plug, or pulling a connector and reseating it.
cleanflametrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2017, 10:59 AM   #40
Hotdoggin
Board Member
 
Hotdoggin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismachine13 View Post
I mean.....$20 at a Harbor Freight for the extension, wobble joint and a 19mm long socket. Sounds a lot easier than pulling the throttle body. YMMV.

Then again.....this is the TB forum.
You think pulling the throttle body is difficult? I'm working on customer cars where broken **** from jamming tools and hands into brittle plastic costs ME money, so... I air on the side of caution. Takes me less than a minute to pop a throttle body off a 2-7-9, so...
__________________
1978 245DL - B21 Penta carb powered!
1982 244T - Crushed
1983 245DL - SOLD
1984 244DL - Crushed
1984 245DL - Sitting in someone's yard
1991 740SE - girlfriend's car
2008 S60 2.5T - Money drainer
Hotdoggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2017, 12:07 PM   #41
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

I always try to pull data before and after a repair instead of just throwing parts

I had a 96 Ford Explorer in the shop with an EGR code recently. Software pointed at the DPFE sensor as the likely cause. Voltage was only going to 2.5v with EGR flowing. Spec was 3.5. Installed a new one and tested it again and got 3.50v! I could confidently ship the car knowing we can charge him and not get an angry comeback.

I had a 2002 Toyota Echo in front of me with a p0420 cat efficiency code. I used the scan tool, wish I used the scope; faster data, to graph both the front and rear o2 sensor. The rear sesnor was oscillating WITH the front sensor=bad cat. Once the new cat is on I will repeat my tests to verify the repair.

On obd 2 cars I can look at ECT sensor data. I found one last summer reporting Temps as if we were in a Siberian winter.

TBRICKERS love to throw out part suggestions but really you need to get off the phone and do tests before and after.

Learn to do tests with the proper tools!!!
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2017, 02:41 PM   #42
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanflametrap View Post
You're right. Especially for a T-bricker who isn't intimate with a multimeter. Part swaps are quick.

But I say the effort is worthwhile because, although the replacement "fixed" the trouble, often times the part itself wasn't bad, but oxidation, corrosion, moisture, crud made connection to it unreliable. Think of all the things you've "fixed" by wiggling a plug, or pulling a connector and reseating it.
Worse yet is to pull out a good sensor that was suspected to be defective and put a defective one back in its place. The quality on "new" sensors is dismal compared to when these cars were built, IMO. I know several people on the board that had new sensors fail in less than a year. They were Bosch, not generic replacements. Anyway, I'm glad changing the sensor worked for you. I hope you hung on to the "bad" one just in case.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 01:47 AM   #43
Fumomike
Board Member
 
Fumomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Valdosta, GA
Default

Lol you guys better be right about this. I just found where the ect sensor is and ohhh mai gawwwd , it is in a tight spot. I cant even pull the connector off because the idle air controller is blocking.

Update tho: turns out my CBV cover with three bolts on the turbo was slightly loose at out by a eighth of an inch. Feels a lot better now when boosting but still running below 10s, so I'm guessing I have some other leaks. Air was probably leaking out.

Also got a heat shield to prevent hot air from circulating back into intake. I used sheet metal. Despite that intake manifold and intake pipe out of intercooler is hot as hell tho :(. Normal? Pictures will come Thursday or so.

Still hard to start after letting it heat soak for 15 min. If I start it right away after I turn it off it starts fine. But yeah, let it sit and it's a goner. I am praying it's the ecu sensor, sprayed crap ton of electric cleaner on power stage and amplifier.

Working on boost leak tester(hard to find right size pvc cap) and ect sensor.


Wait wouldmt it be easier if I just test switching back to smaller injectors? If it starts after heat soak in that case then it would be a different reason than the ect right?
Fumomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 01:47 PM   #44
ortho stice
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Braddock, PA
Default

Just get a 2" threaded pipe plug and sand the threads off. That's what I used.
ortho stice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 03:26 PM   #45
Lord_Athlon
Just damn
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Real world
Default

Put it back to stock and try again.
__________________
84 242 turbo msII
My build https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=8675309
Lord_Athlon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 10:51 PM   #46
Fumomike
Board Member
 
Fumomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Valdosta, GA
Default

Update

Okay Guys. I was right. Well partially. Im not sure what this means. I put back in the stock injectors and the car runs like "ah SOOOOOO GEWD!!!" 10.1->10.8 at WOT(dropped boost from 16->13). It drives completely different with the 5omotorsports stock flowing injectors. Less lean when off throttle, Idles better, drives better, Everything! Even faster at lower boost because AFRs are better. 10.3 instead of >10. It even starts immediately, no more hot start problems so far! Literally can only get one crank in before it catches and engine runs. Can anyone explain this phenomenon and have any suggestions? I want to run higher boost(18-20 lbs) but these stock injectors don't flow enough, however when i switch to 550cc injectors it bogs down >10 AFRs @ WOT and is hard as heck to start when hot. Do you think the same brand injectors @ 440CC would work better? I spent like 259.99$+shipping for these current ones and don't want them to go to waste. You think i should sell them?

I kept in the 3 inch maf as it is working like normal maf with the stock injectors. I even unplugged the battery and let the ECU reset for going back to stock injectors, and can drive at WOT without letting it learn at all hahahahah.

And of course the days where i would get check engine light are lonnnnng gone. I put like 200 miles on my car(1.25 weeks worth of driving) and no check engine light.

Im thinking these injectors, same brand same model but smaller flow: http://www.deatschwerks.com/products...-0042-4-detail

It will suck a bunch if i have the same symptoms though. Wow even when cold it idles 13~->14.7 This is much better than with the 550cc injectors.

Last edited by Fumomike; 02-23-2017 at 01:18 AM..
Fumomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 02:24 AM   #47
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

3.8 Bar (55 psi) fuel pressure regulator for 1988 Chrysler Lebaron Turbo. 27% increase. Increases 300 cc/min injector to 338 cc/min.

Bosch 0 280 160 260

Last edited by lummert; 02-23-2017 at 02:34 AM..
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 03:50 AM   #48
Fumomike
Board Member
 
Fumomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Valdosta, GA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lummert View Post
3.8 Bar (55 psi) fuel pressure regulator for 1988 Chrysler Lebaron Turbo. 27% increase. Increases 300 cc/min injector to 338 cc/min.

Bosch 0 280 160 260
You think it can handle the 18-20 lb boost range? Would it not be better to get slightly bigger injectors? But man the ecu must really love these stock injectors. I might just get a heftier fpr from that car.... any other suggestions/options?

And I think you recommended me this before on that rich bogging thread.

Nobody wants to explain why the car doesn't start with heatsoak on 550cc injectors? It literally starts in like one crank with stock injectors hahah(pretty cool imo).

So this basically means there is nothing wrong with the ect right?

Last edited by Fumomike; 02-23-2017 at 05:57 AM..
Fumomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 11:38 AM   #49
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

I think 18-20psi is quite a bit of boost for stock lh2.4. It may adapt but there's more to not pinging than just AFRs.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 03:15 PM   #50
Fumomike
Board Member
 
Fumomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Valdosta, GA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PromiseRing View Post
I think 18-20psi is quite a bit of boost for stock lh2.4. It may adapt but there's more to not pinging than just AFRs.
Good point there's compression, temperature of intake/ambient air, and timing right? Well the 550cc injectors will definitely get me to my goal but running too rich and won't start so that is out of the window..
Fumomike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.