home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-13-2018, 12:39 PM   #1
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default LH2.2 engine in LH2.4/3.1 car

Iím going to be swapping an ~88 lh2.2 b230f into a 92 240 with lh3.1. I know itís not ideal but itís the motor in hand. Had a few questions before I dive in as to not run into any major unexpected inconveniences.

1) I assume this is the same case as b21>2.4/3.1 motor where I must drill and tap the 2 holes for the CPS bracket. Is this something that can be relatively eyeballed? Plan was to trace the old block, mark the new block, and then tap/drill for m6.

2) 2.2 > 3.1 sensors like, tps, cts, etc etc is as simple as a direct swap from old to new. I think the only issue here will be the knock sensor. The new block should have a spot for it to mount to, and I will just have to grab a torque wrench for this portion so itís the correct sensitivity.

3) For flywheel/clutch stuff, just direct swap from 3.1 motor to 2.2 motor? Both engines were backed my manuals. Gotta be careful with flywheel alignment but Iíll just put both engines at TDC (or whichever position the 3.1 engine is locked up at ) and swap straight over.

I think thatís it but if you know of any other obvious things please let me know. Thank you
__________________
Feedback Thread
Current:
93' 244 m47
93' 245 m47
90' 744 AW70
94' M-Edition Miata
95' Camry auto
Past:
80' 242gt m46
88' 245 m47
92' 940 turbo AW17

Knipex pronunciation: /kəˈnɪpɛks/
The K is pronounced like normal. The upside down e (referred to as a Schwa) is pronounced like "uh".
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/bl...de_down_e.html
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 03:39 PM   #2
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Just took a look at the back of the 88 motor. It appears that Volvo has already drilled and tapped the earlier blocks for the CPS bracket.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 05:30 PM   #3
sbabbs
Board Member
 
sbabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rushing Lane, Scappoose, OR
Default

Yeah my 84 b23ft was drilled and tapped for the crank sensor. Just swap all the sensors over and go basically, some are the same, but unless you know just swap and go.. Everything will bolt on over, it's the same motor.
__________________
1988 245 White slicktop M47 Wagon! 2.5L NA 8v going in.
1990 745 B230FT Getrag JohnV flywheel 240mm clutch 13c A-cam 3.54 G80 548K MILES
1991 740SE B230FT NPR Strut braces IPD bar A cam 550cc EV14's. 3.73 G80 M90 to put in.
sbabbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 07:43 PM   #4
lummert
Board Member
 
lummert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
Default

Don't forget about the flywheel/flexplate.
__________________
Trying to understand stupid people is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.
lummert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 07:51 PM   #5
freevolvos
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: hillpoint
Default

Dammit lummert
freevolvos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 08:04 PM   #6
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Thanks everyone.

@Lummert: Donor motor has no flexplate or flywheel, going to just directly swap from the old one.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 08:06 PM   #7
freevolvos
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: hillpoint
Default

Make sure the #1 cyl is at tdc and the flywheel is lined up
freevolvos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 09:11 PM   #8
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freevolvos View Post
Make sure the #1 cyl is at tdc and the flywheel is lined up
Probably can't even get the locked up engine to TDC But I will make sure both engines are at the same position before I swap everything over.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 09:22 PM   #9
dl242gt
Can play the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

Put the new engine at tdc and use the flywheel missing tooth in the starter hole method to get the timing right. Don't need a locked up motor for reference that way.
__________________
Dave,
1982 242 turbo. 340k miles. Good stuff and lots of rust.
1993 245 Classic, 420k miles, enem V15. IPD bars and chassis braces. Simons sport exhaust from Scandix. sbabbs ezk chip. Been a good road warrior. Genuine Volvo rebuilt leaky M47.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 10:29 AM   #10
VB242
Mojo Stealer
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freevolvos View Post
Make sure the #1 cyl is at tdc and the flywheel is lined up
TDC occurs twice per cam revolution, make sure cam is at the timing mark and put the blank holes in the starter hole.
__________________
1980 primer JDM flares franken-242DL, 1989 silver 780 sienna rear spring nivomat delete
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 01:27 PM   #11
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
TDC occurs twice per cam revolution, make sure cam is at the timing mark and put the blank holes in the starter hole.
__________________
No Start Thread
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 02:09 PM   #12
Lord_Athlon
Just damn
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Real world
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
TDC occurs twice per cam revolution, make sure cam is at the timing mark and put the blank holes in the starter hole.
Are you implying that the rear of the crankshaft could possibly be out of time in comparison to the front of the crank? TDC is TDC.
__________________
84 242 turbo msII
My build https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=8675309
Lord_Athlon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 02:15 PM   #13
VB242
Mojo Stealer
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Athlon View Post
Are you implying that the rear of the crankshaft could possibly be out of time in comparison to the front of the crank? TDC is TDC.
No but if you set it by the crankshaft and not the cam it could be 180įout. I see where you're going with this I guess I should have phrased it differently, number one piston can be at the top of the compression or exhaust stroke so you need to set it in relation to the cam gear and not the crank.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 02:50 PM   #14
sbabbs
Board Member
 
sbabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rushing Lane, Scappoose, OR
Default

Pull oil filler cap on top of valve cover look down hole make sure first two lobes on cam are up and piston number one is up by pulling spark plug and then that is top dead center with both cam lobes up offset from straight up in a V configuration and piston number one at the top pull spark plug put chop stick down hole to feel piston at top of cylinder look at first two lobes on cam make sure they are both up that is top dead center. NOW put in flywheel with missing crank sensor holes at starter hole closer to lower starter bolt hole then top starter bolt hole.

Do not look at marks on any gears. LOOK at piston and cam lobes then verify cam and gear marks are in correct spot also.. Why gamble.
sbabbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 03:20 PM   #15
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default Doing too many bongs today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Athlon View Post
Are you implying that the rear of the crankshaft could possibly be out of time in comparison to the front of the crank? TDC is TDC.




Remove cylinder head and make sure piston 1 and piston 4 are TDC. NOW you can install flywheel.
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 05:11 PM   #16
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

A breaker bar is able to move the 'seized' engine i believe, so I’ll just put both to TDC and swap. Thanks guys.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 07:30 PM   #17
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Breaker bar could NOT move seized engine. So anyway, here is the new engine with cylinder 1 at confirmed TDC. I need confirmation that this is the correct flywheel orientation.


Keep in mind the engine is sitting straight up and down rather than the normal 15 degree tilt.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 11:20 PM   #18
thismachine13
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Kansas City
Default

Blank spot at starter hole.
thismachine13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 11:56 PM   #19
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismachine13 View Post
Blank spot at starter hole.
Yeah so it looks like I have it right. I was just concerned that it could be advanced or retarded a whole bolt hole and still be in the starter area. Time will tell. Buttoning up the rest tomorrow morning/evening and will try to start it.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2018, 12:24 AM   #20
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Yep. That's correct.

Maybe you should install the cylinder head just to be sure...
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2018, 01:57 PM   #21
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

She started right up and is running well. Thanks guys.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2018, 03:04 PM   #22
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

I was joking about the cylinder head part. Seems some people think there is a different crankshaft number 1 TDC when you involve a cylinder head.

Glad to hear it's running.
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2018, 03:30 PM   #23
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
I was joking about the cylinder head part. Seems some people think there is a different crankshaft number 1 TDC when you involve a cylinder head.

Glad to hear it's running.
Yeah I was confused by that statement lol. Just put the engine at TDC (cyl 1) and work from there. But piston 4 is also at the top of it's stroke, but can't remember if both valves are closed on that one too. I would think it's either on an intake or exhaust stroke but idunno.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2018, 08:44 PM   #24
VB242
Mojo Stealer
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Virginia Beach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PromiseRing View Post
Yeah I was confused by that statement lol. Just put the engine at TDC (cyl 1) and work from there. But piston 4 is also at the top of it's stroke, but can't remember if both valves are closed on that one too. I would think it's either on an intake or exhaust stroke but idunno.
Firing order is 1342, that would indicate the intake valve would be open and exhaust valve would be closed on number 4. Y'all are a bunch of d-holes, I was just saying pr should make sure he was at tdc not at the end of the exhaust stroke on number 1. He's young and easily influenced.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2018, 09:03 PM   #25
PromiseRing
We don't even like Volvos
 
PromiseRing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missouri
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
Firing order is 1342, that would indicate the intake valve would be open and exhaust valve would be closed on number 4. Y'all are a bunch of d-holes, I was just saying pr should make sure he was at tdc not at the end of the exhaust stroke on number 1. He's young and easily influenced.
Ah I gotcha. I always know TDC by verifying that the rotor is pointed near the number one spark plug lead, piston 1 is at the top of its stroke, and both valves on cylinder 1 are closed (lobes facing upwards-ish around 45 degrees). So cylinder 1 TDC was never an issue, just wanted to confirm i was installing the flywheel correctly because I did not want to pull the trans.
PromiseRing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.