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Old 12-22-2017, 12:53 AM   #26
gross polluter
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Anyone have some RSI cams to donate to this cause, just to show how horribly they were designed once and for all?
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:10 PM   #27
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I have a (now broken) c2 sitting in my shop, and a new stage 3, but I'd have to ask their owner if I could ship them anywhere.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:37 PM   #28
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Anyone have some RSI cams to donate to this cause, just to show how horribly they were designed once and for all?
I've got a NIB stage 3 and I'm local to the OP - ready when he is!
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:32 PM   #29
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Thanks for all your hard work brother man.
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Old 02-07-2018, 04:41 PM   #30
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You're welcome. It's my pleasure to dispel the speculation.
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:35 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Stiggy Pop View Post
I've got a NIB stage 3 and I'm local to the OP - ready when he is!
I also have a few new cams enem, v cam, RSI. Lmk what you guys might need.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:22 AM   #32
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I have a (now broken) c2 sitting in my shop, and a new stage 3, but I'd have to ask their owner if I could ship them anywhere.
Oi! Wtf happened?
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:45 AM   #33
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I have a couple days off coming in 2 weeks, provided the weather is good I'm planning to knock out 3 more cams: the B and the M that I have, and one more of the crowd's choosing. You guys pick. If it's a small base circle cam, I have some lash caps but I'm not positive they would be correct for my otherwise stock valve train.

Last edited by shoestring; 02-23-2018 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:27 AM   #34
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Added Volvo "M" camshaft today. It's milder than the salsa at a Mexican restaurant in the middle of Nebraska
...
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:06 PM   #35
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Oi! Wtf happened?
Too much clown sex
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Old 02-27-2018, 12:42 PM   #36
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Added Volvo "M" camshaft today. It's milder than the salsa at a Mexican restaurant in the middle of Nebraska
...
So when can I come pick it up?

Also I obtained an L cam if you're interested in measuring that in the future
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Old 02-27-2018, 04:18 PM   #37
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Oi! Wtf happened?
threw a shim, broke the rear thrust surface clean off. didn't catch it til the cam came out to put the ipd turbo cam back in.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:02 PM   #38
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Added total duration figures per lift value, intake and exhaust, as requested. Looking at this, and seeing it in print, it's obvious that the engineers had a rough 20° per 0.050" valve lift figure in mind. Perhaps this is as fast as you can go with the 35mm lifter bucket? I see the IPD cam runs the same, and I would have expected an aftermarket grind to be more aggressive in this arena.

Any of you smart guys have input? I am aware of the derivatives of valve acceleration and jerk but not the math...
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Old 03-24-2018, 02:36 PM   #39
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Thanks for all the information you are providing to us, shoestring.

I'm pretty confused by this stuff and the charts so hopefully someone can help me out with it. I'm about to install a "b" cam into my b230 and I would like to check the valve clearance afterwards. Once shoestring is kind enough to post the valve lift numbers with a "b" cam can I basically turn the motor until each valve is at its max height and then hope the lift is whatever number shoestrings puts into the chart under "MAX LIFT"?

Also, should I check the lift when those valve "husher" pieces are installed or when they are not?


Thanks for your help, everyone.
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Old 03-26-2018, 02:59 PM   #40
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The hushers will not affect the max lift figure. They will make shimming for clearance a little more difficult, I usually discard them. I did run a new set for a while with no perceptible difference in sound.

Yes, the "max lift" figure you would get should be extremely similar to the value I have listed. Please be reminded that the figure I have listed is "as installed". Valve events are measured off the lifter bucket, not on the cam.
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:02 AM   #41
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The hushers will not affect the max lift figure. They will make shimming for clearance a little more difficult, I usually discard them. I did run a new set for a while with no perceptible difference in sound.

Yes, the "max lift" figure you would get should be extremely similar to the value I have listed. Please be reminded that the figure I have listed is "as installed". Valve events are measured off the lifter bucket, not on the cam.

Thanks very much.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:35 AM   #42
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Yes, I'm sure about 0.040" giving 4 degress retard. Years ago when I cut my first head I had read that this was the case and measured to confirm. If you go more, it may not be a linear value, but at least at this point it's accurate.
Outside diameter of the cam pulley is just over 4.46" so I'll use the smaller value of 4.46 which makes this worse...

4.46 times Pi is 14.01 which is the outside circumference of the pulley
So each * of wheel is 14.01/360 or .039"
When you bring the head down it shortens the distance from the head to the intermediate shaft by a distance
there is a slight change of angle as well which reduces the actual amount of loss of timing because the angle is increasing

End result is your math is wrong
As above... Laws of math and physics say .040" == 1* at most
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:46 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Lord Tentacle View Post
Outside diameter of the cam pulley is just over 4.46" so I'll use the smaller value of 4.46 which makes this worse...

4.46 times Pi is 14.01 which is the outside circumference of the pulley
So each * of wheel is 14.01/360 or .039"
When you bring the head down it shortens the distance from the head to the intermediate shaft by a distance
there is a slight change of angle as well which reduces the actual amount of loss of timing because the angle is increasing

End result is your math is wrong
As above... Laws of math and physics say .040" == 1* at most
I sincerely appreciate being challenged, it makes me go back and check my work.

This was a measurement I took that looked to confirm the rumored 1° retard per 0.010" of head milling, which I found to be as accurate as I could using my $25 Summit degree wheel. It was not, on my part, a calculation. Two things you may be missing is that decking the head shortens the belt on both the leading and trailing halves, so you need to double the value you cut the head. Additionally, the relative measurement is with regard to CRANK position, not cam position, and the circumference of the crank gear should be half that of the cam gear. If you work that math, the 4° is about correct.
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:24 AM   #44
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Hi Guys

I've tested the D cam from a marine penta engine in my turbo setup with different turbos ( mainly Holset HX40 / HX35 / China Clone HX40).
I can say this cam i a beast in the middle and higher RPM range a bit sluggish in on the low RPM's - preffered for manual trans i think.
maybe 4-5 degree retard was benefitial - otherwise stock engine with 531 head with cleaned ports.
So when you can catch a D cam - go for it!!!

Cheers
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:42 PM   #45
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Very cool thread, thank you for your time! I haven't looked at anything yet, other than to read through the posts.

On the topic of retarded cam timing with shaved heads, all I can say is that on my motor(when shaved .040" and with a .040" MLS gasket), my car ran like I expected it to with the cam timing straight up(any cam I tried, K, H, RSI Stage 1 NA and ENEM K13). I typically run cams 2-6° advanced to bring the powerband down for better around town use. If I have the cam gear set at 6° advanced, it totally kills the power above 5500-6000rpm. This suggests in my real world experience that the cam timing isn't as far off as one would think based off of what people say(.010"/1°). Or if it is, I like running camshafts retarded(but before the head work, I ran cams advanced a couple degrees with similar success as well, so..........).

Also, when suggesting that there is a cam timing issue with even more shaved heads, such as .080" off and using a belt that's a tooth shorter, why should I advance the camshaft a tooth to compensate and make the timing marks NOT line up. I wouldn't do that, a timing mark is still going to be right.

So, basically, in my experience, in the real world it doesn't make that much of a difference and if you are always shooting for the timing marks to be close to normal, it's fine. You can adjust the cam timing from there to suit your use and desired powerband, but it does NOT have to be set "x amount advanced" if you have "x amount shaved/thinner headgasket" to work "right". FWIW.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:42 AM   #46
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Very cool thread, thank you for your time! I haven't looked at anything yet, other than to read through the posts.

On the topic of retarded cam timing with shaved heads, all I can say is that on my motor(when shaved .040" and with a .040" MLS gasket), my car ran like I expected it to with the cam timing straight up(any cam I tried, K, H, RSI Stage 1 NA and ENEM K13). I typically run cams 2-6° advanced to bring the powerband down for better around town use. If I have the cam gear set at 6° advanced, it totally kills the power above 5500-6000rpm. This suggests in my real world experience that the cam timing isn't as far off as one would think based off of what people say(.010"/1°). Or if it is, I like running camshafts retarded(but before the head work, I ran cams advanced a couple degrees with similar success as well, so..........).

Also, when suggesting that there is a cam timing issue with even more shaved heads, such as .080" off and using a belt that's a tooth shorter, why should I advance the camshaft a tooth to compensate and make the timing marks NOT line up. I wouldn't do that, a timing mark is still going to be right.

So, basically, in my experience, in the real world it doesn't make that much of a difference and if you are always shooting for the timing marks to be close to normal, it's fine. You can adjust the cam timing from there to suit your use and desired powerband, but it does NOT have to be set "x amount advanced" if you have "x amount shaved/thinner headgasket" to work "right". FWIW.
Pretty much agree, and we've proven it on the dyno. With increased compression ratio, moving the cam around a little bit with regard to timing affects the power curve little. On a low comp engine, it probably has greater effect. Still not a lot, if I were to guess.

Anybody wanna volunteer me a cam to measure up? I'm ready for one or maybe two. And I haven't forgotten about the B I have, but after that my personal supply is exhausted.
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:37 PM   #47
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Pretty much agree, and we've proven it on the dyno. With increased compression ratio, moving the cam around a little bit with regard to timing affects the power curve little. On a low comp engine, it probably has greater effect. Still not a lot, if I were to guess.

Anybody wanna volunteer me a cam to measure up? I'm ready for one or maybe two. And I haven't forgotten about the B I have, but after that my personal supply is exhausted.
I have a mystery cam if you're interested. Pulled it out of a junked 740 turbo. It's definitely aftermarket, but there are no markings to indicate what it is or where it came from.
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:26 PM   #48
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I have a mystery cam if you're interested. Pulled it out of a junked 740 turbo. It's definitely aftermarket, but there are no markings to indicate what it is or where it came from.
Nothing, what so ever on the back of the cam where everyone in their right mind at least scratches something into it? Pictures?
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:44 PM   #49
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Nothing, what so ever on the back of the cam where everyone in their right mind at least scratches something into it? Pictures?
There is a thread on it with some pictures.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=325881
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:39 PM   #50
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Crazy! Send it in for measuring.
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