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Old 08-09-2017, 10:35 AM   #1
redleg
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Default Microsquirt IAC Tip-in Accel Enrichment

Will the addition of a IAC help with my tip-in issue? I have one if it will help? I have the accel enrich tuned as good as I can get it IMO.
I'm using a blend of 90%tps-10% map. I have NO noise at all on my tspdot I have it enriching @
2.5dot tps. with a 1.0 add fuel. I have noise on the 3bar mapdot its set at @65 with 1.0 fuel added. I do have a 3" Tb on the B230 intake which doesn't help with tip-in specially with an automatic tranny. Opinions from various sources. Even if i mildly stab the gas pedal it still gets super lean, if I roll into it theres no issue. Seems like the microsquirt can't react quick enough to correct the lean tip-in. I was think about putting on my other intake with the 2.5" TB for a tip-in comparison. Other then this tip-in issue the car runs well. Any direction would be great


Specs:
B230ft IPD turbo cam, 3"tb
Gt30
700r4 4000stall
3 bar GM MAP
700cc inj
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:38 PM   #2
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IAC won't do anything for accel enrichment. The IAC is for idle only, and is really slow to respond (think seconds, not fractions of a rev).

Have you gone through the msextra setting up guide and/or the B&G guide for tuning accel enrichment?
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/ms2manuals/
http://www.useasydocs.com/details/us3tune.htm#accel

A .msq and a log, with commentary on what you think you're seeing, are always good.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:19 PM   #3
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Yes. I've gone through Ms extra regarding the acceleration enrichment tuning.. I have my Tps dot threshold as low as it'll go without triggering under wide open throttle. I think I'll fiddle around with the EAE settings if that can't improve the quick open throttle lean issue. I will put the 2.5 tb back on and see if I get the same results.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:40 PM   #4
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Your VE table may be too lean above the idle cells....

Those cells are not cells you will hit in normal operation,
they only get hit on the instantaneous blip from when the throttle is opened till the motor vacuum picks up (right where it pops).

Don't tune these in the driveway, you cant set them free reving, the motor needs to be loaded.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Rick View Post
Your VE table may be too lean above the idle cells....

Those cells are not cells you will hit in normal operation,
they only get hit on the instantaneous blip from when the throttle is opened till the motor vacuum picks up (right where it pops).
Yes, right at 100 kPa at your idle RPM range is where you want to bump VE. My accel enrichment gets excessive at any other driving conditions if I don't do this.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:31 PM   #6
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Taper it down to the Idle cell numbers from there, so it starts getting more fuel progressively right off Idle.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Rick View Post
Your VE table may be too lean above the idle cells....

Those cells are not cells you will hit in normal operation,
they only get hit on the instantaneous blip from when the throttle is opened till the motor vacuum picks up (right where it pops).

Don't tune these in the driveway, you cant set them free reving, the motor needs to be loaded.
This is what I've been running into with tuning the '80.

I have AE off, and haven't had any (noticable) stumbles on accel while driving, but there has been an off-idle stumble that went WAY lean when taking off from a start. Been fattening those up and things have been much better.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:36 AM   #8
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As in reducing the kpa value right above idle and much more fuel in those sells? Attached is my msq if anybody wants to look at it. Btw why are my ve values so high? 700cc inj and 93ve@50kpa??? I'm maxed out at 255 in high boost.That's what the table generator populated for me. After running auto tune these are the current values.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qy89n15tds...tTune.msq?dl=0
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Taper it down to the Idle cell numbers from there, so it starts getting more fuel progressively right off Idle.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:05 PM   #9
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Sounds like your fuel pump can't keep up
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:47 PM   #10
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Try re-generating your tables with Incorporate AFR turned off. It should be much better. VB242(IIRC) ran into this bug early this year.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:51 PM   #11
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I don't think it is the fuel pump because the low speed VE numbers are large.

What is your fuel pressure? Is it boost referenced?

If your fuel pressure is not 3bar and does not rise with boost, you have issues.

Looks like a Microsquirt?

You should upgrade firmware to 3.4.2 < not likely related to your issue, but maybe.

Last edited by Dirty Rick; 08-12-2017 at 01:03 PM..
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:02 PM   #12
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Upgraded intake pump to that Airtex one for the Ford, deleted main pump.
I hope it's not running out of fuel.
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Sounds like your fuel pump can't keep up
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:04 PM   #13
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35psi. With vacuum line attached. 44 without. Yes it is boost reference off the intake manifold. Aeromotive adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
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I don't think it is the fuel pump because the low speed VE numbers are large.

What is your fuel pressure? Is it boost referenced?

If your fuel pressure is not 3bar and does not rise with boost, you have issues.

Looks like a Microsquirt?

You should upgrade firmware to 3.4.2 < not likely related to your issue, but maybe.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:06 PM   #14
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Interesting. Were you getting abnormally High VE numbers? I would think I would be in the 25 30 ve number range at idle with these size injectors..
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Try re-generating your tables with Incorporate AFR turned off. It should be much better. VB242(IIRC) ran into this bug early this year.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:04 PM   #15
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Sorry, I didn't remember the earlier details correctly. Quote from here

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VB242 -
...
Looking at your VE table, the boost range has some really big values (roughly 100% at 100kPa but then max'ing out to 255% at 190kPa). I tried the MS VE table generator and immediately ran into a couple bugs. The bug you've found is that the VE table generator ignores the "IncorporateAFR" setting. The AFR table that's generated includes the conservative target of 11ish AFR @ 2bar. The problem is that the VE table generator also independently adjusts for the target of 11ish AFR @ 2bar. When "IncorporateAFR" is turned on, you get double boost adjustment resulting in way too much fuel.
If the table generator is generating the 255 values, it's the above bug. If auto tune / VEanalyze is correcting a cell to 255, then it's a fueling problem (pump, fpr, injectors).

Auto tune only corrects the cells that have been hit during your test drive (and then, only when they meet the filter criteria). For the cells that were not hit, you can try adjusting them similarly to what auto tune did to adjacent cells that were hit.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:33 PM   #16
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I just use the auto-tune feature up into 110 kPa.. after that I datalog it and correct it after I view it.. so yes, I did manually enter 255 in those cells.. I do have a set of 1000cc injectors on hand.

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Sorry, I didn't remember the earlier details correctly. Quote from here



If the table generator is generating the 255 values, it's the above bug. If auto tune / VEanalyze is correcting a cell to 255, then it's a fueling problem (pump, fpr, injectors).

Auto tune only corrects the cells that have been hit during your test drive (and then, only when they meet the filter criteria). For the cells that were not hit, you can try adjusting them similarly to what auto tune did to adjacent cells that were hit.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:37 PM   #17
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http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...ghlight=airtex

This is what I put in the tank. Should be enough for what I'm doing, I'm more concerend about the out and return stock fuel line diameter.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:07 PM   #18
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Return line restriction would show up as the inability of the regulator to hold a lower pressure at idle. You are bypassing the most fuel in a low load state.

Try increasing the reqfuel by 50%? Change it from 5.6 to 8.4 and see how far down your low speed VE numbers get.
That required fuel is high though

The last Volvo I did had 750's a 4.5Reqfuel and the VE table starts in the 70's and goes up to 155 @ 300kpa and warp speed (include AFR set).

Im going back to fuel pressure given that comparison.

How much fuel pressure do you have under a load?

Also Lower your AFR table in the idle area it's going to want ~13.5 afr to idle well. And when you enable the O2 it will drive it too lean without the change.

Just remember pumps don't like to suck, the pump inlet is best flooded and significantly larger than the ~5/16 pressure hose .

Last edited by Dirty Rick; 08-12-2017 at 08:25 PM..
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:27 AM   #19
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This has helped. I idle at 50kpa(93ve)in gear. next fuel load cell is 70kpa(95ve).
I lowered the 70kpa to 65kpa and put 130 as the VE. This has help alot I can't feel the lean spot much if anymore. It still shows up as super lean on the wideband but I can live with it.
I wish I could get this thing to tip-in perfect, like lh2.4 did before I swapped to MS. However
LH never saw a 3"TB on a 2.3l.

Thanks for all the help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Rick View Post
Your VE table may be too lean above the idle cells....

Those cells are not cells you will hit in normal operation,
they only get hit on the instantaneous blip from when the throttle is opened till the motor vacuum picks up (right where it pops).

Don't tune these in the driveway, you cant set them free reving, the motor needs to be loaded.
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