If you built a budget performance engine.....

^ really nice

RWDNoob said:

I know the Chinese rods would be fine I just don't like sending money there for that sort of gear, I happily pay double to buy something local but after more reading the 13mm rods should be fine for what I want to achieve.

Tanks for the info on Springs, do you know if there is a difference between 16V NA springs and turbo ones?
I have found a 16V complete NA engine for $300 which seems like an OK price in Australia.

Click to expand...

Ok pay me double for my rods then: 160mm center to center.. That means you don't have to swing a 670g or 850 g piston around, but instead a nice featherwight 338g piston which is a more stable in the bore design with the pin to top--compression height 31,4mm

My rods---sold around 230 of them world wide---also are the only rods with real manly sized rod bolts, ya know, the thing that holds the rod together...
Some use limp noodly 3/8"---unimaginably why---probably because they don't really understand anything about bolt strength or rod stress, they were just copying what other vendors were doing...Nothing wrong with that, but get a rod that gives more advantages--like being stronger and which lets you shave off 400-500g per piston/rod
Really unless you walk in and watch chips flying, how do you know where the rods are machined..
ALL the Chinese crank and rod makers buy all the steel for the rods and cranks from a specialist mill in OZ...so you ARE buying Oz products (lookie---I make car stuff and build things for cars but mainly I have been either a machinist or kinda machinist..I have been to the main 2 factories in Chengdu who make almost everybody's rods. I spent several days talking and having lunch ---Szechuan cooking there is eye poppin' yummy--and a tad hot so everybody drinks beer..---with the owners/design guys , engineers and top sales guys. They're metal workers first, I've been a metal worker for more or less 45+ years, and in several countries... They're allright people and they know they have a good deal going and they want to and intend to do like any metal worker I've known: they want to do a good job.---so again, Buy my rods and to make you fell better I'll charge you double, then give you complicated reasons for a discount..,
and I won't hold it against you that you're Ozzie when I have had to re-work really crap Ozzie made DMS suspension--specifically the weak flimsy ears on the struts.

Or the arrogant lies and claims made by Jamie Drummond, the Ozzzie guy that makes these struts...when he says "We have never had a single failure of a DMS unit in competition, ever"
I have read the email, not "old wives tail" off some forum..

OK? You don't hold it against some Chinese metal worker which milled up the Australian steel into a finished rod, just because he's Chinese, and I won't hold it against you that you're Ozzie because some other Ozzie sells weak stuff that always fails and doesn't know the work "Customer Support".

Hows that for brilliantly illogical compromise?

+

<-- Would contribute to entertaining thread again.

We just need Jamie Drummond to pipe up!

Well, this went from zero to full retard pretty damn quick.

meeki007 said:

I think any one in his right mind would prime a motor and check for oil pressure before ever running it. sure it should of had the pump gear in it but you can never take a motor for 100% preowned.

Click to expand...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bp3834ctc1/overview/make/chevrolet

would you expect to have this run right the first time you turned the key? would you expect it to perform as advertised?

and i think it's still cheaper

RWDNoob said:

Which state are you in? I'm fairly certain NSW laws won't allow an engine of that capacity in your car, just go with a 20B

Click to expand...

im in vic, the nazi state....

the 1uz is only 4.0, and has been done and engineered in nsw before. or if you want a motor that outperforms a redblock, and costs less than any 250bhp build, buy a 1jz-gte. $1300 should get you everything. and its legal. **** spending $2000 on a b21ft. you'd have to be mad.

Yeah I have been to the workshop where the final machining is done, forgings are done in Aus but not in house.

I have nothing against China, I just hate people in Australia that send all their money overseas and complain we don't make anything anymore, we are a bunch of hypocrites over here.

Yeah I have heard some bad things about DMS over this way too, had heard you need to keep spares but hadn't heard about any structural failures, but that was only word of mouth. I bought AVO shocks for a previous Mini and they were a joke, I have no idea what the springs were supposed to be rated for but I'm guessing it was a go cart not a mini, only two of the shocks were Gal plated so two rusted in no time at all, every country makes some crap gear.

So, back to the engine haha, I am going for a 16 valve engine if it flows better I should get more power at lower boost levels which is good for everything, yeah it sounds like a bit more work but it sounds like it's worth it.

Has anyone had any luck with shimming valve springs, I have never tried it but it may be enough for a mild boost increase...?

RWDNoob said:

Yeah I have been to the workshop where the final machining is done, forgings are done in Aus but not in house.

I have nothing against China, I just hate people in Australia that send all their money overseas and complain we don't make anything anymore, we are a bunch of hypocrites over here.

Yeah I have heard some bad things about DMS over this way too, had heard you need to keep spares but hadn't heard about any structural failures, but that was only word of mouth. I bought AVO shocks for a previous Mini and they were a joke, I have no idea what the springs were supposed to be rated for but I'm guessing it was a go cart not a mini, only two of the shocks were Gal plated so two rusted in no time at all, every country makes some crap gear.

So, back to the engine haha, I am going for a 16 valve engine if it flows better I should get more power at lower boost levels which is good for everything, yeah it sounds like a bit more work but it sounds like it's worth it.

Has anyone had any luck with shimming valve springs, I have never tried it but it may be enough for a mild boost increase...?

Click to expand...

The 16v is a nice head and really best with the 96mm bore of a B23/B230. The Intakes are awfully close to the cylinder walls at low lift so there is a bit of valve shrouding--probably not much than the 8V has at all lifts with the combustion chamber walls so close and with the valve inline with the bore it is shrouded the whole way--that's why n.a. or turbo I open the chamber on the short sides.. I have done some sets of B21 16v pistons, I believe the guy asked for +1mm bore and that's no problem.. Hell B21 wall thickness is such some buys have bored them all the way to 96mm which is +4mm... I personally wouldn't get so greedy, no more than 2mm I'd say...
Valve springs are easy on the 16v at least here in Fortress America?...
The hydraulic followers/lifters/buckets are same as some 16v turbo Ford called YB, some car that Ford made specifically to beat Volvo B21 tour car---which it did so effectively that Volvo quit---but the bottom end of the B21 is every bit as strong so I think a clever trevor could use the YB as a target or a guide...
PM me and I can send you some pretty piccies of the Australian steel and US aluminum that would wake that bugger up and make it as nice as many 90s motors rather than some late 50s design...and maybe some American steel to hang a clutch on rather than that Swedish lump of cast iron that you can't get decent pressure plates for.

olov said:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bp3834ctc1/overview/make/chevrolet

would you expect to have this run right the first time you turned the key? would you expect it to perform as advertised?

and i think it's still cheaper

Click to expand...

Cheaper? I spent just under 4k on the motor and head, pistions, gaskets, pumps, altinatior etc / every thin motor related.. Sure i still had to build it.

With that 350 your looking for a tranny, drive line modds, bigger rearend oh the list goes on.

I still think it would be fun to do a 350 in a 240 though so if thats you goal do it!

would you expect to have this run right the first time you turned the key? would you expect it to perform as advertised?

you missed my point, you were criticizing someone for buying a crate engine and not assembling/testing it themselves. my point is, at some point, it should not be necessary. you can pay someone else to do it at a higher cost

Budget 300+ is easy

olov said:

would you expect to have this run right the first time you turned the key? would you expect it to perform as advertised?

you missed my point, you were criticizing someone for buying a crate engine and not assembling/testing it themselves. my point is, at some point, it should not be necessary. you can pay someone else to do it at a higher cost

Click to expand...

my criticizing -
"I think any one in his right mind would prime a motor and check for oil pressure before ever running it. sure it should of had the pump gear in it but you can never take a motor for 100% preowned."

sorry I did not answer your question.

Would you expect to have this run right the first time you turned the key? (reff to 350 from summit)
NO! Before working part time at an autoshop learning from a tech reading the ase books I would have been dumb enough to throw it in and crank it. After having seen some of the parts and mistakes made by shops, people, parts mann/supply I take nothing as safe or as advert.

Again I said people make mistakes (reff John V) Do i still trust what he has to say. Well most the time. Take anything someone says on here with a grain of salt. Use critical thinking skills.

I'm with you on it should have worked as advert. SHOULD is the key word here.

I'm not one to fight on these boards. I think I have one post where i went off on a guy for stiffing parts and running of with cash of others

I think any one here should do what he wants with his car.

RWDNoob I hope you fig out a build direction and start a build thread when your ready. I like to see the work done by others.

RWDNoob Please in a week or so when you pick a build outline/direction post a quick plan or list we will all check it out.

Hahahahahahahahaha, SU's are horrible, one thing I promised myself was I'd never own another car with them, if it's not EFI it should be moto carbs or a Weber, love Webers, have a set of split Webers in the shed from a prior mini build.

Plan so far, scrap my S60, sell my current daily then get a RWD wagon.
I picked up the free Evo 7 Cat today, pick up free T5 next week that is if the Ford one will fit up like the Holden T5 box.

I need to work out which way I want to go with the water injection, I have an injector driver sitting around somewhere and I don't know if I should use an injector and pressure switch to activate it or run a greenhouse mister and vary the pump speed with boost, injector will be easier but it may not be as reliable.

I will be using an NA 16 valve motor for the build as I can get one cheap and the car I am going to look at is also a 16 valve post 93 model so no swapping booster, mounts etc.

After I buy that I will try and find a suitable turbo(the one on my S60 T5?) and post 90 manifold and then work out what to do management wise.

I have a spare car for three months so I would like to try and find as many pieces to the puzzle as fast as possible but as I have been out of work for ages I need to sell my POS before much can really happen which sucks.

EDIT, my engine will never look nice on the outside, I don't drive around with my bonnet off so I really don't care, as long as it is mechanically and electrically sound I'm happy but a full front end rewire might happen as I hate old wiring.

Scrap your s60? why dont you use its motor?

hk 40 said:

Scrap your s60? why dont you use its motor?

Click to expand...

Swapping a T5 engine in a 2/7/9 is not what most would call a "budget" build. It's an awesome conversion, but not exactly for the faint of heart.

Alright I love going in circles, if I were to go with an 8 Valve motor could there possibly be enough room for twin scroll TD05 in the normal position? I know I would need a fancy new manifold but I really want to try and make a manifold and tack it all together and have someone decent weld it all up. I know it's oodles of work but I am unemployed and time rich cash poor. I can get a Ti turbined Evo TD05 at a decent price and if it fits in the stock(ish) location the factory dump pipe may work too.

Running a twin scroll setup may be a bit more gentle on the factory rods too as it should be a bit less likely to detonate due to lower(hopefully) cylinder temps.

Also I really like the ratios in my S60's M56, they had a nice spread, not the best for racing but for a day to day car they were fine. I was trying to find Volvo ratios but the link on the articles page is dead, I'll have to have a look if my trans still has the diff ratio sticker on it.

M56L

1st 3.38:1
2nd 1.90:1
3rd 1.19:1
4th 0.87:1
5th 0.70:1

final drive 3.77:1

M56LK

1st 3.38:1
2nd 1.90:1
3rd 1.19:1
4th 0.87:1
5th 0.65:1

final drive 3.57:1

M56H

1st 3.07:1
2nd 1.77:1
3rd 1.19:1
4th 0.87:1
5th 0.70:1

final drive 4.00:1

7mgtesup said:

M56L

1st 3.38:1
2nd 1.90:1
3rd 1.19:1
4th 0.87:1
5th 0.70:1

final drive 3.77:1

M56LK

1st 3.38:1
2nd 1.90:1
3rd 1.19:1
4th 0.87:1
5th 0.65:1

final drive 3.57:1

M56H

1st 3.07:1
2nd 1.77:1
3rd 1.19:1
4th 0.87:1
5th 0.70:1

final drive 4.00:1

Click to expand...

Your statement is just a tad terse there mate, don't know if I can really agree wif it.
Or not.

Might want to clarify your thesis and explain what you mean...just a tad more verbosely.

John V said:

Your statement is just a tad terse there mate, don't know if I can really agree wif it.
Or not.

Might want to clarify your thesis and explain what you mean...just a tad more verbosely.

Click to expand...

It was in reply to this

RWDNoob said:

Also I really like the ratios in my S60's M56, they had a nice spread, not the best for racing but for a day to day car they were fine. I was trying to find Volvo ratios but the link on the articles page is dead, I'll have to have a look if my trans still has the diff ratio sticker on it.

Click to expand...