- Joined
- May 11, 2007
- Location
- Niketown, OR
I can 'splain better on phone where voice intonation gives more meaning...
I'll clear a couple hours from my schedule later this week
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I can 'splain better on phone where voice intonation gives more meaning...
Your o-ring solution seems a good one.
Your pipe is held in place with a bracket and metal stops with 2 thin (probably Viton?) o-rings that squish down into their grooves flush with a pipe that is constrained by the bracket and stops.
Threading/all metal probably isn't necessary for the life of the o-rings/between engine rebuilds.
One problem I've noticed is that all pipes fit a little different...tooling drift?
Can't be worse than being held in place by two rubber o-rings with a skinny pipe.
But might be a problem/not exactly one size fits all.
Every rear-sumped inline engine I've thrashed down a good road has had the oil light come on under hard braking, and never under hard acceleration, because under brakes you can pull 1G+ and under acceleration if you can approach 1G it's not for very long and the oil naturally falls into the rear of the sump no worries. The factory "top plate" arrangement is about as good as you can do, and the place to add volume is below that plate in every direction you can. I built an "ultimate wet sump" years ago, and it worked well. Might post a pic or three for you another day. No trap doors, though. Total waste of time IMO. Top plates are the winner. Just imagine a roasting tray of liquid and trying to contain it, the best job is done by a lid with a hole in the middle so only some of it "falls out" in any axis of load/tilt.-The Intake Scoop design is likely the least valuable item on my pump, it's the result of a bit of thinking and "mental simulation" on oil control in the pan. My observation is that the pickup location is crammed into the front, passenger side corner of the pan. I'm imagining it sucking that corner dry upon hard acceleration, so limiting the ability to pull from the corner and more from the center of the pan would be maybe a bit better, I have a few other designs to try in the future. Also, not sure if the pan can be removed in-car yet..
-The Pan will get a kick-out on the passenger's side to add about a quart or more capacity and put more oil around the pickup. Also adding another baffle and possibly a swinging door.
This is not your opinion, this is fact The only thing it can do is raise peak oil pressure if/when it's being reduced by relief action due to high RPM or low temperature. Good with boost in the former case, and bad with oil filter burst risk in the latter case. Me, I live somewhere temperate, never below 0C, and I plan some serious boost, so more pressure up there is welcome, for me.-Relief Spring, I'm probably bucking convention here, but I think the stock spring is fine for my application, I've tried to increase the efficiency of the pump and in turn produce slightly higher line pressures/volume at lower RPM, Why would I care about lower RPM efficiency? I think the load on the bearings is greater at lower RPM's under high-load acceleration, thus I want more pressure/flow, earlier. Plus, if the pump can do this while using less parasitic HP, all the better. Ultimately, the relief spring just limits the peak pressure in the system IMHO.
Dry sump servers a number of purposes, but chief among them is circuit use with high G-loads. Wet sumps, of any design, can never perform well in any reasonable packaging. They can perform well enough, if you're careful and do a good job, but they're still second best above 1G. If you're not abusing your car under brakes/through corners in a serious fashion, dry sumps are more or less a waste of time, too. +1 on not dry sumping a street car.-Dry sump system, $$$$. Way more than what I've spent on this overkill wet sump system. Remote wet-sump pump? Hmmm...
I used a high pressure Melling on a Chevy motor I put in a van once. It blew seals and was a disaster. A top drag race guy some years ago whose name I cannot recall, Pro-stock iirc, said he used 30 psi.
Not all oil pans are created equal. Some years the "top plate" is just spot welded in a few places. Under high G's like a track car sees the oil runs out the sides between the top plate and the pan. We weld all of those up with a continuous bead or find the better year pans.The factory "top plate" arrangement is about as good as you can do, and the place to add volume is below that plate in every direction you can.
I just put the IPD spring in my M181.
---and the industry standard for SBC and SBF which I've heard here and in distant furrin places applied to MANY motors is "10 psi per 1000 anticipated rom and 1 (another 10) to grow on."
True in a sweeper! In a sweeper you have other issues, too, though. The top end of these engines only drains in right hand turns. In left hand turns it'll well up up there and you'll lose volume/surface level in the sump - this hurts. My head will be modified to assist in this area. The other issue to consider is that the top plate only provides oil control, as the pump is emptying the sump quite quickly and relying on refill through the hole to continue working. That's where lots of sub-plate capacity comes in - it gives you more time to empty and requires more latent oil in the head to cause an issue.Not all oil pans are created equal. Some years the "top plate" is just spot welded in a few places. Under high G's like a track car sees the oil runs out the sides between the top plate and the pan. We weld all of those up with a continuous bead or find the better year pans.
This is a cheap/quick/easy fix that we do to our street cars that will see occasional track time. I take a small chunk of 3" exhaust pipe, cut it in half, open it up a little to match/fit the oil pan, mark oil pan, cut hole in oil pan, weld in modified piece of pipe and cap both ends. Works great and keeps average mildly modified street cars with DOT rubber from starving for oil while in long left hand sweepers on a track.True in a sweeper! In a sweeper you have other issues, too, though. The top end of these engines only drains in right hand turns. In left hand turns it'll well up up there and you'll lose volume/surface level in the sump - this hurts. My head will be modified to assist in this area. The other issue to consider is that the top plate only provides oil control, as the pump is emptying the sump quite quickly and relying on refill through the hole to continue working. That's where lots of sub-plate capacity comes in - it gives you more time to empty and requires more latent oil in the head to cause an issue.
Which year sumps? The 94ish squirter I have has a close fit that fluid can leak through, but not quickly. The shape is more of an issue, though, with the cut out for the pump and pickup quite large. Building a good wet sump (approximating an hour glass) for one of these would not be easy due to exterior space constraints, but I intend to give it a shot
Do you have a picture of the inside of the pan? What year engine did this pan come from. It looks like an old b20 pan.
This is a cheap/quick/easy fix that we do to our street cars that will see occasional track time. I take a small chunk of 3" exhaust pipe, cut it in half, open it up a little to match/fit the oil pan, mark oil pan, cut hole in oil pan, weld in modified piece of pipe and cap both ends. Works great and keeps average mildly modified street cars with DOT rubber from starving for oil while in long left hand sweepers on a track.
That can't be more than about an extra half quart/litre? Better than stock, but the issue with left hand sweepers cannot be solved by modifying the sump.
Here's my old first attempt at this, it has a full-length top plate with volume under it from front to back. The four wings take the volume up a full 2 litres, and the whole lot is spaced down 12mm for another litre, 7 litres all up. The top plate is fully welded and the only cut outs are dip stick and pick up tube of a minimal nature. Top plate height is important, and needs to be below high tide mark, approximately where low tide is at max RPM with a couple of litres of oil up around the rest of the engine. Any lower and you have less volume under control. Any higher and you have air under the plate and more slosh. This thing has worked well, though I've not really stress tested it to my own standards. Doing something like this on the Volvo is going to require more engineering and possibly a two-piece design for ease of removal.
I spent some time measuring my block this evening and although it can't hurt, I have my doubts about the benefit of opening up the feed tube to 13mm ID (matching pump and block) from 11mm ID. Why? Because the gallery from the pump entry to the block and the filter is a mere 10.0mm, and to improve this you'd need to bore it out from the bell housing end. Not a minor job, for sure. Is this in the plans? Or just a case of "may as well make it better while fixing the clearance issue"?