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B21F here, how can I pull more HP while staying NA

It's not THAT bad. Sure, +T is way easier, but you CAN make more than 90hp from a red block without a turbo. You just need to lower your expectations a lot. The 16v B234f made anywhere from 150-170hp stock, depending on the market. Read up on that, as 16v is probably the most efficient direction if you must chase HP the naturally-aspirated way. Still, expect to spend thousands just to get a running 16v setup (in whatever form) into your car.

I say go for it. It would be way cooler than all the cookie cutter +T builds.

he has the anemic 79 b21 you wont fit a b234 head on there


Im sure most of us get it John........... but he will have to do way more work and spend more $$$ then logical

hell you want to go NA get b23 and b234 head that alone will open up his eyes...

HE has the B21f engine... the reason +T is so popular is because it works and cheaper then dirt (seriously I spent more on dirt for my garden last two months then +T my DD)
 
You know what would make this thread better? If somebody actually posted a monetized list of what it truly costs to build a naturally aspirated Volvo motor making 200+ at the wheels. As somebody with an interest who doesn't understand a Scandinavian language, I'd legitimately like to know how accurate my own assumptions are.

Every time this question gets asked, people respond with 'It's too expensive!' and are rebutted by others (John V) who say its actually fairly reasonable. This goes back and forth over and over, but hard numbers are never delivered. I understand estimating this stuff is tricky, but if any body has an actual parts/price list, It would be awesome if they could share.

I have a 242 GT that is just begging for a howling naturally aspirated mill..
 
Jack you seem to be an expert, tell us in detail what the work is needed and what the various operations require..and what each costs
itemized..

Please dood...I never said I'm an expert
You can +t for less than $500 with jy parts and a rebuilt 16t turbo. If not less... That is if you do all work yourself
Add a few "premium" items like better turbo, exhaust and intercooler and you reach your 240hp goal easily

So unless you're a machinist there is no way you can reach that on NA.... But please prove me wrong on a.b21 and I'll do it
 
<a href="http://s255.photobucket.com/user/redwoodchair/media/Pinks%20all%20Out/Pinks227.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh136/redwoodchair/Pinks%20all%20Out/Pinks227.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Pinks227.jpg"/></a>
 
Strip the interior , cut out wheel arches, 15" 140 pizza cutters, ride the bumpstops, front airdam, ecomodder abs panels over the wheels, anemic weight whore that bitch, put a 4.54 rear end in it. And all of a sudden a 130hp car is faster than a 200hp 16v fully dressed pig.

$0
 
And either a B234F head with PZ cams or a heavily worked over 8v. Both would run $~$1500 all said and done.

$1500 if not more

Nathan Intake $800

Nice na headers and free flow exhaust $400

Does anyone even know the real life budget of a build ?
 
It?

Everything costs money...

even the ubiquitous +T costs clutch, gearbox, diff eventually...
Everything..

Go back and salivate over the carbureted Cosworth BDA who supposedly existed. I say supposedly because this was before the internet. As you said it goes without saying which is why no one has explained what the differences are.
 
$1500 if not more

Nathan Intake $800

Nice na headers and free flow exhaust $400

Does anyone even know the real life budget of a build ?

I keep on forgetting I have the buddy hookup on nearly everything. Heads with cams, ready to go non-junkyard specials would be $2000 more realistically.

And yes, intake and headers. You could either get a $300 microsquirt with $100 in a harness and a $800 intake manifold...orrrr spend $1300 on a pair of DCOEs with a $350 Digital 6AL ignition and some carb manifolds.

Short block and rotating assembly left untouched we are at well over $5000 on a power plant alone. I still maintain that an M47 will hold that much power.

And at that point I'd say screw it and fork over $8000 for a nearly turn-key LS2+T56.
 
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