Stock: 240 or 74/60 turbo? (Europe)

Hi,

I'm a big Volvo enthusiast since I was little, my parents always had (and still have) Volvo's so it's in my blood...

Currently I drive a company car (Belgium, Europe) and I'm looking to buy a 'Turbo' Volvo as a hobby car, for the weekend. Not to race or anything, just enjoy the 'Volvoness'.

Next to that I live in Belgium, Europe, where they are very strict on modifying cars. In short, it's not allowed. Currently it's less strict on oldtimer but this will change soon. So I would like to have a car who is already 'OK' factory, or I can easily swap parts of later models without the guys in the MOT noticing it. (and put the 'T crank' instead of 'A crank in it, anything they can not see). Same for strut bars, I will need to remove them each year.

I would like to have a sleeper and even after reading for months about all the differences between the B21FT, B23FT, B230FT, ... and checking the 'specs' on performances on line. On the looks, I favour the 240 on the outside and the 74/60 on the inside...

I think the 760 turbo has more room to 'tune' easily without making it visible by swapping a +94 B230FT, put a T cam and up the boost. I can also easily bolt the M90 in the 700 from the 900 series, and loose the stupid overdrive. In short I can swap more goodies from the 900 to the 700 series (I think). The 240 has the advantage of being lighter and less 'american' cadillac like but more 'european' sporty, plus the B23FT is also quite a good engine to up the boost and it's a much 'cooler' sleeper than the 700...so maybe a tie?

I hope the experts in here can help me out!

760 turbo go for it. or Find a 940 turbo

Where in Belgie?
Maybe we were neighbors once (300 years ago)..

Whatever you can do on a 740 you can do on a 240..
So no reason to force yourself to drink too much so you don't vomit up your dinner every time you look at the car.
Just find a nice 240 and have some fun...

The ONLY warning is this--get a car with electronic injection, not the old K-jet mechanical stuff.. that's no because it is bad, just that now---30 years later---it is so much more bother to do anything..and everything you do is visible...Electrons inside a ECU are magic, and those idiots can't see them..

So, where did you say? West Vlandern?
Who had the idea of forbidding everything fun?

Ease of fitting the M90 is about the only legitimate advantage to a 7/9 series.

How thorough is this inspection? the T5 doesn't look that out of place, especially if you paint the adapter, or go the "modified bellhousing" route.

The only turbo engine in European 240's is the B21ET at 155hp running K-Jetronic. Well, some countries had B19's but not Belgium I think. B230FT in an 89 or newer 240 is the best option since it's all bolt on and electronic fuel injection but they'll surely notice that.

740/760/960 Turbo 16V with M90 swap might be nice?

No EFI turbos in Euro 240's as far as I know.

One can do wonders to Kjets, though, but for 700's You can get stealth MS/VEMS/whatever...

As usual, what are the power goals?

Thanks for the reply's!

- A 940 isn't really an option, I want it to be an oldtimer (so min 25 yrs old). I also don't like the Volvo 760 as from MY 89, when it got the 900 series 'aerodynamic' nose. 740 ran a bit longer with the square nose, so this can be an option for more recent MY

- I live in East Flanders, close to Gent. Grew up in west Flanders, close to Bruges
- Can I really put everything I can put in a 700 series in a 200 series? I thought it may be apparent if you put an M90 in a 240 as it's not factory standard. 700 and 900 series would be more interchangeable, also the B230FT apparently fits in a 700 series but never in a 200 (turbo) series, only in the latest 240 (NA) models
- Local government had this idea to forbid anything fun...building a turbo Volvo engine in a NA volvo is possible, but then I need to fit the original turbo brakes, suspension, ...

- The check is very thorough, they notice different brake discs, brake tubes (if you go for more recent ones), turbo, ... I'm quite sure they will notice a T5 monster of an engine + all needed electronics. Same for modified exhausts etc. You can loose your 'oldtimer' plate for it

- As far as I know, only in Italy they put this 2.1 with K jetronic. You can easily find the 2.3 turbo. The 2.1 is actually more collectable in Europe as they are more rare, and due to Italian weather less rust. I'm looking for rust free 2.3 turbo's in Spain though, there are not a lot but a few very nice ones...It's also an option to source in the US. Example of a 2.3 in Europe: http://www.kapaza.be/nl/volvo/volvo-240-2-3-glt-turbo-intercooler-automaat-250pk-87037587.htm

- The point about the 2.1 vs 2.3 is not that bad though, as most 'good' 240 turbo's are in Spain and Italy, where they seemed to have sold a lot of 2.1 cars...

- Power goals, good point, is about 200 - 250 Bhp, with a strong bottom end.

regarding the power goals, how noticeable is it if I switch the gearbox to a M90L2 and fit a B230FT from the latest L series into a 760, is it really 'bolt on' and can I make it look 'stock'? Will it be easily noticeable when I go to the MOT, as they are also not thick...

what else can I do which looks stock? 16v head? A big downpipe they will notice...

Is it realistic to get to 200-250 BHP with this setup? According to 'the internet', the latest engines can be 'easily' pushed to 400 bhp...but if they notice my car will not even get on the road...

I've had both and if you're going to play with mods and it's a weekend car a 240 is much more fun.

760 is esentially same as 940. So yes, a B230FT and M90 as late as 1998 will be a bolt on.

Check Turbosteen's 1982 760 out, it has 1990 740 B204GT engine, and such...

For your power goals, a B230FT, especially a later one will do just fine, and could get you there with really discreet mods. Even a M46 could take that, though the clutch might have issues, so you're better off with an M90 from start, but if you can't find one, M46 should do it.

Heck, you could get that with mostly stock B21ET in a 240.

Could you fit an intercooler if the car didn't have it from factory?

I could fit an intercooler if I can prove it was an option on the car at that time and it is 100% original, which isn't easy to get.

Discreet mods is indeed the way I (need) to go!

There was intercooler kit from Volvo for B21ET's, but they're both scarce and obsolete nowdays.


Therefore, 760 route seems the easiest.

Scarce they are indeed but not impossible off course...

I see even the poll in this topic is undecided!

I have seen a nice one in Spain, a 760 sedan 2.3 turbo intercooler from 88 with the front I want, but it's 1300 km drive and my wife think's I'm crazy to do that...B230ET engine, stock 181 BHP, about as powerfull as they get, for me the perfect Volvo...but if the wife disagrees you know it's doomed to fail so back to base!

The other downside on a 760 turbo is the nivomat suspension on the rear, it has a live axle but this suspension apparently isn't really suited to handle big power enhancements...the 740 turbo does not have this suspension but not easy to find with the intercooler. Could also be heavily exagerated by most people, I also don't mind putting in new nivomats, it's expensive but if you don't want to spend money you don't have to buy an old volvo (certainly a 7 series) in my opinion...

Small update, seems like a 760 turbo can be had quite cheap, 240 turbo's are getting quite expensive...at least 5000 for a decent one, 10.000 for a really good (stock) one...

There are currently two volvo's i'm looking at, both from spain unfortunately:

http://www.autocasion.com/coches-segunda-mano/volvo-otros-ocasion/otros-ref2322156
I asked him to drop to 1500....
I like the color, don't really like the interior, the back hood has been replaced by a black one, but the year is better, it's a 89, probably one of the last ones with the nice square front.

and this one:
http://www.segundamano.es/zaragoza/volvo-760-760-23-turbo-intercooler/a67662685/?ca=0_s&st=a&c=4
He used to be on 3000 and has dropped to 2500, I asked him if he also wants to go to 1500...it's a long shot but I can try right...he has less km and a nicer interior, but is also 4 years older.

what's a reasonable price for one of these? Should the 4 years in age make a big difference? Interior I guess can also be swapped for cheap by a leather one if I really wanted to?

Given the strict modifying rules (similar to the ones we have here in Norway) I'd go for the following:

-Early 760, '84 or '85 with the stout b23et engine. The internals are forged, and way better than the weak 9mm (b230et) engines.
-Larger/newer/more modern t3 turbo, they probably wont see the difference if you use the original plumbing. And a ported 90+ manifold
-Uprated intercooler (something like this painted black)
-late model m90 with 0.70:1 in fifth, and a 3.91 or 4.10 rear with a trutrac or similar

In the original motronic engine management it's possible to hide an aftermarket ems, and with a ported head, different cam, maybe do some work to the pistons to reduce compression (b23et has 9.0:1 if i remember correctly) and a good tune you could have a really fun and stock looking car. Even with just a good chip and more boost the motronic-cars are pretty quick

In the handling department a good set of dampers and perhaps some new/lower springs and beefier swaybars (why not get some ipdbars or similar and paint them?) would go a long way.

Wow thanks for the clear reaction! Hearing this I should get the more expensive of the two adds above...will be tricky to get the price down further.

Thats a good idea to paint the heavier ipd sway bars black, have to make sure the other parts match up to it and are equally clean...

How much horse fun can you get out of a 700 series turbo with these mods?

Conforting to hear other countries have the same issues I have regarding mods...

210-220 should be a pretty safe bet.

Don't forget to find better stock-ish mufflers too, as you can't modify the rest of the plumbing.

John V said:

Who had the idea of forbidding everything fun?

Click to expand...

People too free for their own good.

I almost convinced my wife to fly to Spain to get the car It would be the first add, with the '85 engine as proposed in this thread. I was only wondering if the price is not too high? I have the impression when looking at the pictures that the back is sagging slightly, broken nivomats are expensive I heard...

Any opinions on the max price I should pay? I want to pay a maximum of 2.000 for it, if in as perfect shape as in the pictures without any corrosion.

Thanks, hope I can get my wife completely convinced, odds are about 50%...

Just as I almost convinced my wife, there is a turbo for sale 300 KM from my house, much cheaper, 1200 EUR, but with many more miles (370.000) and running on evil LPG instead of good old gasoline. No leather, but has a sun roof and painted bumpers (don't think the painted bumpers are original though?). Looks wise I prefer the blue color to the silver from the one from Spain, but the interior is ugly and with more wear. This I can swap though. It also appears to have more 'chips' of the paint compared to the one from Spain. It does not have a sagging back, so that's a good thing.

http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/auto-s/...84ef0ece270f44503df9f8598c624&previousPage=lr

I will go and have a look on it, price wise it's all in all a difference of 1000 EUR, never know about hidden costs off course.

What is your opinion, which one has most potential? Both have the B23ET engine, estate has no intercooler