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Old 10-14-2018, 11:38 PM   #1
aussyvolvo
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Default is megaquirt still the norm?

it has been a while since I've done my research, is my megasquirt v2.2 from bowling and grippo still the shizz?

This is not for a road car. I have a jaw board etc too. But is there something so new, that it's not worth using this anymore?
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:15 AM   #2
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Megasquirt 2 & Microsquirt are the basic EFI.

Megasquirt 3 is the newest and most feature rich.

Megasquirt Extra is the firmware to use.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:19 AM   #3
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Megasquirt 3 is definitely the best of the Megasquirt family. MS2 isn't really worth using unless you're trying to do it really cheap with microsquirt or something.

I were to do another build from scratch, I'd probably use an AEM infinity.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:57 AM   #4
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I just remembered there's a sub forum for this, can a mod move it?

ms3 is more than what I'm willing to pay, at $1500aud, and AEM even more so

I remember the name of microsquirt..... what is that again?

What's the downside of ms2.2? I don't mind doing the hard yards.

*btw the engine is bare, so I need to make all new wiring anyway.

Last edited by aussyvolvo; 10-15-2018 at 02:03 AM.. Reason: wiring reason
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:16 AM   #5
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In Australia there are a wide range of good aftermarket ECUs available. It's been ages since I did detailed research, but one important factor is who will tune it and what systems they are good at tuning. If that is you and you are willing to tinker then Megasquirt can be a good solution. If you want to take it to a dyno guy and get him to sort it out, or even just touch up a basic map, then you may have to look at other units.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:29 AM   #6
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MS1 v2.2 is still useable, but it's mostly obsolete. MS2 on the 3.0 board is pretty much the 'entry' point now.
If you buy from a place called diyautotune.com, they have a pre-assembled MS2 on their own 3.57 board, which is all surface mount components. No more proto area, and no more soldering required for swapping between hall sender and VR (they use jumper pins). It's still moddable for the usual stuff though (onboard coil control, CAN BUS communication, launch control, etc). I'm running a modded MS2 v3.57 on my 244 w/whiteblock 6 swap, and it's been great.

Honestly, MS1 v2.2 isn't bad (I was running one on my B21+T last year before I swapped), but IMO, MS2 v3.0 is the way to go if you want to save money. Microsquirt is cheaper, but basically the same as MS2 v3.0, minus a lot of the spare outputs and some different injector drivers, etc.
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke4speed View Post
MS1 v2.2 is still useable, but it's mostly obsolete. MS2 on the 3.0 board is pretty much the 'entry' point now.
If you buy from a place called diyautotune.com, they have a pre-assembled MS2 on their own 3.57 board, which is all surface mount components. No more proto area, and no more soldering required for swapping between hall sender and VR (they use jumper pins). It's still moddable for the usual stuff though (onboard coil control, CAN BUS communication, launch control, etc). I'm running a modded MS2 v3.57 on my 244 w/whiteblock 6 swap, and it's been great.

Honestly, MS1 v2.2 isn't bad (I was running one on my B21+T last year before I swapped), but IMO, MS2 v3.0 is the way to go if you want to save money. Microsquirt is cheaper, but basically the same as MS2 v3.0, minus a lot of the spare outputs and some different injector drivers, etc.
oh my, I didn't realise my v2.2 meant ms1

I'm getting very confused with versions now..... if 2 is 3, and 2 is 1..... and 2 is micro.... what?

So just to make sure, is ms2 v3.0 not the same as ms3? And what I have is ms1, not ms2. But t8fanning thinks that not even ms2 is worth anything. Is what I bought over 10 years ago, completely worthless? I spent so long learning it back then, it even has a basic tune

hen seems to think that pros wont be able to help me with megasquirt.

lastly, what is the difference between ms2, and microsquirt, and does it need anything extra, and what is this sem102 thing I'm seeing on ebay, saying that it's based on ms2?
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:46 AM   #8
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V2.2, V3.0, and V3.57 all refer to just the main printed circuit boards. V2.2 was the earlier board, V3.0 was a revamp of it, and V3.57 is the SMD version suitable for mass production by robots (i.e. get a boatload of them from China).

I may veer slightly into areas where I'm not as familiar, but MS1, MS2, and MS3 all refer to the main processing chips. The older versions having less processing power and less memory in the chip. The firmware is tied to the processor, since it has to be very hardware oriented. The firmware development tends to trail off sharply on the older processors once something new comes out. that doesn't mean that the older processors and firmware stop working as well as they used to, they just won't get newer features. And any bugs might take a while to be fixed, if ever.

IIRC Extra was a version of the firmware designed to work with a daughtercard. MS3X is a version of MS3 designed to work with a different expansion card (and another whole massive printer cable port for lots more inputs/outputs).

I'm really not familiar with Microsquirt - I think it's just a miniaturized MS2 with limited input/outputs.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:26 AM   #9
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oh my, I didn't realise my v2.2 meant ms1

I'm getting very confused with versions now..... if 2 is 3, and 2 is 1..... and 2 is micro.... what?

So just to make sure, is ms2 v3.0 not the same as ms3? And what I have is ms1, not ms2. But t8fanning thinks that not even ms2 is worth anything. Is what I bought over 10 years ago, completely worthless? I spent so long learning it back then, it even has a basic tune
v2.2 was the last version of the original PCB. It was designed mostly for MS1 firmware, which you've worked with. v3.0 was the evolution of the 2.2 PCB and works well for both MS1, MS2, and MS3 firmware. v3.57 is the next level after 3.0 and again, works well for both MS1, MS2, and MS3 firmware, but is all surface mount stuff on the PCB (aka more modern). It's a bit confusing, but look at it this way: MS1, MS2, and MS3 refers to the firmware and processor used, and v2.2, v3.0, and v.3.57 refer to the PCB the processor fits on. It's easier if you forget about v2.2, because it's obsolete.

If you want to build your own MS and run the MS2 or MS3 firmware, you'll need the v3.0, because v3.57 comes pre-assembled due to the high level of soldering required for surface-mount components.

So, if you want to build one yourself, you'll need an MS2 or MS3 v3.0 kit.
v3.57 is the best option if you want to buy one pre-assembled (or you can buy a pre-assembled v3.0 as well, for slightly less $) The only difference is whether you want to run MS2 or MS3 firmware.

Quote:
lastly, what is the difference between ms2, and microsquirt, and does it need anything extra, and what is this sem102 thing I'm seeing on ebay, saying that it's based on ms2?
Microsquirt and MS2 run the same firmware, the difference is that microsquirt is a custom board that is designed to be very small. As a consequence, you cannot really modify it and it has fewer outputs than regular MS2.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:55 AM   #10
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Use whatever your desired tuner is best at would be my first suggestion, otherwise you can get caught up in flux and end up hating the car/ecu/life.

micro and ms3pro (v1) are my favorite two out there right now in the MS world. jury is out on the ultimate, I got one going on a tb'ers 2jz car, will have more on that later I reckon.

As far as figuring it out, I think it's easier than other stand-alones, but I'm probably biased in that regard a bit from years of experience.

Figure out what you want from the car functionality-wise, and then figure out who is the best at delivering that, and if you're going to use them to set your car up, go with whatever they recommend.
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:40 PM   #11
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I'm a fan of the new microsquirt for it's price and simplicity. I have it on a v8 Ford and a 4cyl Volvo, incredibly easy to get going.

I really don't like tunerstudio software as I find it confusing and settings are in odd menus. I've used AEM, Motec, Haltec, and Tunerstudio for software in the last 10 years. TS rates as the 3rd most user friendly of them, at least for me.

When you need more inputs/outputs, there are plenty of ECUs in the 1k-1500 range that will fit the bill.

If I do anything that needs more I/Os, I'll probably go with one of the ECU Masters setups. They have a really nice accessory package and an extremely competitive price: https://ecumasterusa.com/collections
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:47 PM   #12
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Tuner Studio was a big improvement over Mega Tune, at least. That was a mess of stuff hidden in random submenus.

Plus, Tuner Studio autotune actually works. Unlike Mega Tune's 'let's burn random huge rich or lean spots in your map as you drive!' autotune.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:19 PM   #13
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So it seems who sold me this used kit, misslead me. And it seems my chip is ms1, but with MSV2 etched into it, and kinda worthless to sell.

So I may use it until I give up on it, and get microsquirt (my dear god, the Australian dollar sucks arse). Can Tuner Studio be used with my ms1?

Thanks to culberro, and broke4speed for clearing up the versions for me! That was so confusing.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:35 PM   #14
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my brain just clicked, can I buy a ms2 chip and swap that on, without any further mods?
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Old 10-16-2018, 12:29 PM   #15
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The v2.2 main board does not have onboard ignition finals output,
It does not have a VR input circuit (only opto).
It does not have provisions for a second (cam sensor) input circuit.
It does not have current control for low impedance injectors.
It does not have the flyback circuits to control injector noise.

Will it work? Yes. You will likely have to modify it.

Easy to identify what you have. If it has the large 40 pin black single chip processor it is an MS1.
If it has a circuit board with multiple small chips plugged into the 40 pin socket it is a MS2 processor.

The easy button for the v2.2 board is if you have a hall sensor basic trigger distributor and use a smart coil and high impedance injectors.
More than that and you will have to dig a little deeper and the learning curve gets steeper.
A missing tooth trigger wheel and 2 dual output smart coils or 4 smart coils will give you wasted spark distributorless ignition.

If I had to use a v2.2 board I would install a MS2 processor on it.
Although the MS1 processor will work the MS2 upgrade provides lots of bang for the buck.
My favorite street MS system is a v3.0 MS2 because it can be custom tailored to your unique install.

You can use the v2.2 with a well chosen parts combination.
Take your time to dot the I's and cross the T's and have everything figured out in advance.
This will save you from doing a lot of rework or banging your head trying to get a less simple solution to work.

No matter which processor you use some circuit board work will be needed (or at least verified) to configure the board for your hardware.
Do you have a hall sensor type distributor?
Do you have high impedance injectors?
Do you have EFI type coolant and air temp sensors?
Do you have a wideband O2 system? (so you can tune it) I like this one with the separate gauge since the MS system does not have a check engine light. https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...db-gauge-3873/
Does the car already have an EFI fuel system? (pump for 45psi & regulated return system is best)
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Last edited by Dirty Rick; 10-16-2018 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 10-16-2018, 03:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Rick View Post
The v2.2 main board does not have onboard ignition finals output,
It does not have a VR input circuit (only opto).
It does not have provisions for a second (cam sensor) input circuit.
It does not have current control for low impedance injectors.
It does not have the flyback circuits to control injector noise.

Will it work? Yes. You will likely have to modify it.

Easy to identify what you have. If it has the large 40 pin black single chip processor it is an MS1.
If it has a circuit board with multiple small chips plugged into the 40 pin socket it is a MS2 processor.

The easy button for the v2.2 board is if you have a hall sensor basic trigger distributor and use a smart coil and high impedance injectors.
More than that and you will have to dig a little deeper and the learning curve gets steeper.
A missing tooth trigger wheel and 2 dual output smart coils or 4 smart coils will give you wasted spark distributorless ignition.

If I had to use a v2.2 board I would install a MS2 processor on it.
Although the MS1 processor will work the MS2 upgrade provides lots of bang for the buck.
My favorite street MS system is a v3.0 MS2 because it can be custom tailored to your unique install.

You can use the v2.2 with a well chosen parts combination.
Take your time to dot the I's and cross the T's and have everything figured out in advance.
This will save you from doing a lot of rework or banging your head trying to get a less simple solution to work.

No matter which processor you use some circuit board work will be needed (or at least verified) to configure the board for your hardware.
Do you have a hall sensor type distributor?
Do you have high impedance injectors?
Do you have EFI type coolant and air temp sensors?
Do you have a wideband O2 system? (so you can tune it) I like this one with the separate gauge since the MS system does not have a check engine light. https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...db-gauge-3873/
Does the car already have an EFI fuel system? (pump for 45psi & regulated return system is best)
the 3.0 pcb doesn't have provisions for a second input either, unless you're talking about the silly "proto area". A single onboard ignition driver (That can just as easily be added to a 2.2 board, because that's all it basically is on the v3.0-an after thought) is nothing to get worked up about either.

controlling low-z injectors on a v3.0 board is problematic as well because of a design flaw. For best operation on both you should use high-z or resistor packs.
The vr circuit on the v3.0 board is suspect as well and should by bypassed in favor of one of the many aftermarket conditioners based on the MAX9926 chip (which normally will give you two different inputs to run cam and crank).
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Old 10-16-2018, 03:53 PM   #17
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but, I concur on the processor. I wouldn't start a project with an ms1 chip for anything beyond a very basic trigger return single igntion out (stock distro) type of thing, and even then I'm not sure I'd use one.. Can it work? Sure. Gotta lot of mileage out of those back in the day--because there wasn't anything really much better available for the money.

Now? I won't even really build an ms anymore for myself or anyone else.. it's not really worth the time investment to then have to go back and fiddle with stupid little **** on the board to get it to do whatever, when I can pick up a packaged system ready to wire. Saves a lot of time and frustration. Over the past ~ 15 years the EFI landscape has also changed a lot, there are now a number of affordable systems to look at vs spending whatever a kit costs these days and the time to put it together.
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:14 PM   #18
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I did a microsquirt as a "get it done cheap" build and I'm hard pressed to come up with justification to spend $1200+ to upgrade to something else.
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Old 10-17-2018, 12:05 AM   #19
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so you've given me a lot to think about, I may keep my eyes open for a microsquirt, because I really wanted to control the spark too.

I have some green top injectors (I believe are high, right?), and a JAW controller that I don't know what version, or how to wire up, and can't find any info on (can anyone help?). I have access to a hall sensor B234f dizzy though As for air/coolant temp sensors, I think I have some... somewhere, or can I just take some from the existing 360glt? I do have some B23E fuel pumps I was going to use too. The only thing I never did work out, was fuel regulation, and return.... Not that I remember much from back then anyway.

here's a question, do any of the systems use air flow sensors?

*edit, I think my second wideband controller is actually NAW..... also I have no idea how to wire it, or how it works. *edit 2, I finally found the manuals on their site, despite how hard they tried to hide it haha

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Old 10-17-2018, 01:12 AM   #20
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My total bill of my Microsquirt install into my Turbo Dodge is over $1500 USD. The ECU itself is cheap, but it adds up fast.

Microsquirt + 8 ft harness $369
36-1 wheel $32.00
Weld 36-1 wheel to crank $100 - Going to have the wheel fully welded and balanced, tips from a racer that did the same thing and broke his wheel off once due to spot weld and broke the crank the second time due to balancing.
crank sensor $43
QuadSpark $89.00
MAP sensor connector $8.50
MAT sensor connector $10.00
ECT sensor connector $10.00
TPS sensor connector $10.00
420A wires $20
420A coil $20
Wiring Connector packs $30
USB to serial $15
Misc wires $40
Uninsulated crimp $20
Crimp tool $13
Shrink Wrap $10
Misc bolts $15
Relay $15
Fusebox $25
Fuses $5
E85 sensor + connector $80
lilknockmeter $120
bosch knock sensor, connector, stud $40
Injector resister $30
wire loop $20
MAC valve for idle control $30
3m tape $6
Tuner Studio + MegaViewer $79.95

Last edited by tryingbe; 10-17-2018 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:13 AM   #21
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36-1 wheel $32.00
Weld 36-1 wheel to crank $100 - Going to have the wheel fully welded and balanced, tips from a racer that did the same thing and broke his wheel off once due to spot weld and broke the crank the second time due to balancing.
crank sensor $43
You''re sort of getting close to the price of the DSM CAS adapter - and then just snag the sensor at a junkyard for $10.

https://yoshifab.com/store/billet-re...s-adapter.html

That is a powered sensor that makes very nice 'square' crank signals, and it has a cam signal as well. Which allows you to move to something other than wasted spark if you felt like it.

Of course, then you have to 'time' the intermediate shaft when you change the t-belt.
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:17 AM   #22
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nice! A breakdown, because the way everything is so spread out, it makes it seem like you only need to buy a few things (admittedly I have most of that already).

I am going to stick with my v2.2, when I have enough money spare, I'll get the ms2 db (I'll have the money before I install the unit anyway). It also seems that I can run a VR sensor (with work, and not too pricey). And with some mildly daunting looking mods, I can run an EDIS system (can that be run with any 2 wasted spark coilpacks? Because those I can get from a friends crashed car), without the EDIS box, but with some bips. The tooth wheel is something I'll also ponder on.
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:21 AM   #23
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You''re sort of getting close to the price of the DSM CAS adapter - and then just snag the sensor at a junkyard for $10.

https://yoshifab.com/store/billet-re...s-adapter.html

That is a powered sensor that makes very nice 'square' crank signals, and it has a cam signal as well. Which allows you to move to something other than wasted spark if you felt like it.

Of course, then you have to 'time' the intermediate shaft when you change the t-belt.
damn yoshifab makes some sexy things, I already have a few of their things :D but they always make me drool
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:24 AM   #24
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damn yoshifab makes some sexy things, i already have a few of their things :d but they always make me drool
***danger to wallet***
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:11 AM   #25
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that's an optimistic list. the p&p setups I sell for 550 need a map sensor and connector to run (it includes a new air temp sensor and pigtail), so add maybe another 100 depending on what you get, and that's 650. On a budget, I'd just buy megaviewer, I personally have little use for autotune and only seldomly see people get it right. but it doesn't hurt to support phil tobin, he sells a nice product. (I do own a couple licenses for TS, and at least one for megaviewer)

if you want to go wasted spark from there, a set of LS coils can be had for $50-$100. a set of (8) plug wires is like another 40, and you've basically got wires for life at that point. keep in mind, we're talking volvo here not chrysler.

Like all things in life, there is a fair amount of "you get out what you put in" to be sure, but you don't have to go full ham. Starting from scratch I'd posit the things you need the most:

megasquirt (whichever one)
wide band
air temp sensor
map sensor (if not built in)
injector resistors (if injectors are low-z. alternatively, get high-z injectors from a newer volvo)

at that point, decisions can and probably ought to be made. wiring incidentals can add up as well, but on your average volvo those are the things I would consider most required. followed closely by megaviewer so you can get good logs from which to adjust the tune.
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